Thanks for the quick answer.
I actually don't see any of this ever being enforced.
I actually don't see any of this ever being enforced.
Indiana Call to Action: Multiple Indiana bills would threaten access to and use of e-cigarettes.
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Correct...unless you mess with the wrong people...maybe you campaign against some of these wrong people...maybe you are part of a larger group trying to unseat the wrong people...maybe you're having an impact in the polls?
I plan on messing with the wrong people and I'm going to try to get others to join me...
I plan on messing with the wrong people and I'm going to try to get others to join me...
I'm trying to figure out just who we're dealing with exactly. I've only seen tiny bits of info about casinos being involved somehow. I will say that I know of one out of state online vendor who will not sell in Indiana once these bills get passed (if they pass, I can hope right?), so some damage is being done. I don't think the vendor knows about the permit that can be bought, for $500 if I remember correctly, and I will make sure to inform them about it but if this becomes mainstream and begins cropping up in other states the whole permit thing will become to much for most online vendors. So this unenforceable joke will actually do great harm. So who exactly is reaping the benefits from all of this?
Oh and my sister in Nevada can buy my juice online for me if things go wonky so Indiana and Monument Vapor can kiss it and so much more as far as I'm concerned. Their sales will not go up if I have anything to do with it. As a matter of fact, this Monument Vapor, has most likely just set itself up as the biggest pariah in the vaping industry so have basically cut their sales all on their own.
Yep. I think the beneficiaries will be BT and BP. This really isn't going to impact many of us. I rarely buy from B&Ms. It's all of the people that will never try vaping and continue to smoke or buy BP nicotine replacement products.
Yeah, I can see 2-3 years from now, some cop shaking me down because he sees me using e-liquid from an unlabeled bottle!
Yeah, I can see 2-3 years from now, some cop shaking me down because he sees me using e-liquid from an unlabeled bottle!
Monument has more ties with liquor than anything. One board member for Monument is retired from a BT firm. They have no discernable ties to BP.
It doesn't fit the typical narrative we vapers are used to. The main lobbyist for this are Casino, Liquor, and Convenience Stores. Note the lack of BT, or even little T, and the utter lack of BP.
These 2 bills are to give Monument a monopoly in Indiana. It is actually a very typical thing. Buy lobbyists to make bills to secure market share. It has been an American tradition for a long time. It's nothing new and does not involve the players we know would benefit.
And, no, we're not really sure why the casino lobby is involved. The only thing we have on that is one casino owner owns a security company that provides a security service that exactly matches the bills security requirements, but that seems pretty weak for the amount of funding going into this.
It doesn't fit the typical narrative we vapers are used to. The main lobbyist for this are Casino, Liquor, and Convenience Stores. Note the lack of BT, or even little T, and the utter lack of BP.
These 2 bills are to give Monument a monopoly in Indiana. It is actually a very typical thing. Buy lobbyists to make bills to secure market share. It has been an American tradition for a long time. It's nothing new and does not involve the players we know would benefit.
And, no, we're not really sure why the casino lobby is involved. The only thing we have on that is one casino owner owns a security company that provides a security service that exactly matches the bills security requirements, but that seems pretty weak for the amount of funding going into this.
Also know Hoosier Park Casino sells H20 Ecigs in a shop inside the casino, but we know that because they tried to unload some inventory to a shop in the same town as the casino. Monument is a distributor of H2O.
Hoosier, What was the $6 million figure John referenced in the hearing yesterday? Did I hear him say tax revenue?
Yep, that's the total sales tax vape shop in Indiana, that have joined with us, contributed to the state last year.
Over 1k jobs with an average wage of around $11/hr isn't part of the figure.
So, when a senator is saying he isn't worried about the fiscal impact, he means that losing the taxes and jobs will not have enough of an impact on the state budget to worry him. (because that was the tax and fiscal policy committee). Don't know if he's cool with eliminating jobs and making families worse off, but I'll bet it doesn't keep him up at night.
Over 1k jobs with an average wage of around $11/hr isn't part of the figure.
So, when a senator is saying he isn't worried about the fiscal impact, he means that losing the taxes and jobs will not have enough of an impact on the state budget to worry him. (because that was the tax and fiscal policy committee). Don't know if he's cool with eliminating jobs and making families worse off, but I'll bet it doesn't keep him up at night.
I would like to see their numbers on the decline of tobacco revenue, including declining master settlement agreement money over the last 5-6 years.
They want us to keep giving them that money, because we used to smoke, and they got used to it.
I doubt that there are any accurate numbers on the decline in Indiana smokers over the same time period.
They credit that to smoking bans though.
edit: and higher taxes.
This only goes up to 2010.
http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/BRFSS/display.asp?yr=0&state=IN&qkey=4396&grp=0&SUBMIT3=Go
They want us to keep giving them that money, because we used to smoke, and they got used to it.
I doubt that there are any accurate numbers on the decline in Indiana smokers over the same time period.
They credit that to smoking bans though.
edit: and higher taxes.
This only goes up to 2010.
http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/BRFSS/display.asp?yr=0&state=IN&qkey=4396&grp=0&SUBMIT3=Go
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When Evansville/Vanderburgh County passed their smoking ban, they exempted the casino. It was later overturned, but it essentially forced anyone who wanted to sit in a bar and have a cigarette with an alcoholic beverage to go to the casino.
Talk about exploiting addictive personalities!
It seems to be a nationwide effort.
The Charleston Gazette | Senate OKs bill to exempt casinos, gambling parlors from smoking bans
I guess if I was a smoker and a gambler, I might curb my gambling if I couldn't smoke there. There are other alternatives I could find on the web.
If I want to smoke and drink, I can do that at home, much cheaper, so they only hurt the small businesses, tavern, etc.
I wonder what % of chronic gamblers smoke. Why wouldn't the casinos be behind vaping as an alternative to separate smoking and non-smoking areas....?
I don't get it.
Well maybe I do, but that's another post.
Talk about exploiting addictive personalities!
It seems to be a nationwide effort.
The Charleston Gazette | Senate OKs bill to exempt casinos, gambling parlors from smoking bans
I guess if I was a smoker and a gambler, I might curb my gambling if I couldn't smoke there. There are other alternatives I could find on the web.
If I want to smoke and drink, I can do that at home, much cheaper, so they only hurt the small businesses, tavern, etc.
I wonder what % of chronic gamblers smoke. Why wouldn't the casinos be behind vaping as an alternative to separate smoking and non-smoking areas....?
I don't get it.
Well maybe I do, but that's another post.
All I know as far as MSA payments goes is that Indiana lost about $60 million in 2014. Indiana had to go back to court or something to get that money back. I did find it ironic that up until that happened there had been no activity in our state against vaping. Now our state is presenting some of the worst legislation against vaping which will result in protecting tobacco sales therefore preventing future MSA payments from going down due to lower tobacco sales. Coincidence?
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Hoosier, It's my understanding that the next vote will be to pass to law.
Do you have an idea when that will be?
I got one of those stupid wasteful mailings from Senator Tomes today.
They don't mention bills that are up, just stupid bullet points. I will voice my opinion on that too.
Do you have an idea when that will be?
I got one of those stupid wasteful mailings from Senator Tomes today.
They don't mention bills that are up, just stupid bullet points. I will voice my opinion on that too.
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They like us being shrooms. I still can't find an email address for my house rep.
Is there an opportunity for amendments during the readings?
I thought it was done with committees.
Confused....
Yes, amendments can be introduced in second reading, but not third. It's unlikely though. A faction has the tax bills written up as amendments if the floor is opened up to our amendments.
It's down to kill or be killed. These bills must be defeated.
We will have a unified message coming soon for emails and phone calls. Bear with us as we work it up.
It's down to kill or be killed. These bills must be defeated.
We will have a unified message coming soon for emails and phone calls. Bear with us as we work it up.
Sent letters to my reps tonight. The more I follow this, the more bills I find that piss me off. I got one of my senator's glossy update flyers in the mail today that said nothing about anything that matters to me. So yeah, he heard from me.
CASAA has updated the Indiana Call to Action (3/19/15):
SB 539 and HB 1432 are moving toward floor votes and both bills are still written to gut the vapor industry in Indiana. To complicate matters, the lobbyists that are pushing these bills are attempting to convince legislators that they have “compromised” with both consumers and the Indiana e-liquid industry. This is not true.
Please take a moment to call your senator and representatives and let them know that they should NOT support either of these bills.
Oppose SB 539 & HB 1432 - Make a Call
Full Call to Action: CASAA: Indiana Call to Action: Multiple Indiana bills would threaten access to and use of e-cigarettes.
SB 539 and HB 1432 are moving toward floor votes and both bills are still written to gut the vapor industry in Indiana. To complicate matters, the lobbyists that are pushing these bills are attempting to convince legislators that they have “compromised” with both consumers and the Indiana e-liquid industry. This is not true.
Please take a moment to call your senator and representatives and let them know that they should NOT support either of these bills.
Oppose SB 539 & HB 1432 - Make a Call
Full Call to Action: CASAA: Indiana Call to Action: Multiple Indiana bills would threaten access to and use of e-cigarettes.
We expect to find out the thought processes, political back and forth, on all the possible amendments late today.
Currently the bill has his been amended for technical reasons and to be more of what the lobbyists again us want. The often repeated, "working with the industry", is a pitiful lie. I think they keep repeating it because it is so pitifully bad.
They have had meetings with us. They have been both berating and kind to us, in the same meeting no less. They have managed to not understand what we are saying. They have told us that we should be happy about amendments that do not address a single concern brought up in these meetings. We have given them amendments written out in the same format as Legislative Services and been told they look good and see no problem with them, but the amendments have never touched any reading....That is what they think "working with the industry" is.
Currently the bill has his been amended for technical reasons and to be more of what the lobbyists again us want. The often repeated, "working with the industry", is a pitiful lie. I think they keep repeating it because it is so pitifully bad.
They have had meetings with us. They have been both berating and kind to us, in the same meeting no less. They have managed to not understand what we are saying. They have told us that we should be happy about amendments that do not address a single concern brought up in these meetings. We have given them amendments written out in the same format as Legislative Services and been told they look good and see no problem with them, but the amendments have never touched any reading....That is what they think "working with the industry" is.
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