Indiana Call to Action - Stop the Monopoly

[Apocleon]

This is awful I just found out about it now. Was putting in an order at one of my top 3 favorite vape shops Parkes vaping and it looks like they are going to shut down in the next few weeks. Looks like they are passing idiot vape laws around the country right now. I really thought we were beyond this sort of idiocy by now.

 

[squee]

We will continue the fight in court. Being granted a hearing for injunction means we have a strong case.

Without the injunction though, how many shops and manufacturers will still be in business after July 1st? I mean, it's great the suit continues but how long will it take? And by the time a verdict is rendered, the FDA regs will kick in and.....

What really sucks is the money having to be spent to fight this pile of poo could be spent on fighting the FDA. I can't imagine that most could do both

 

[pennysmalls]

Another update was posted to Hoosier Vapers yesterday. In a nutshell, now that the FDA has released the deeming the legal team representing vapers in Indiana has filed a motion for preemption which basically means that Indiana, or any other state, cannot create laws that go above and beyond what the FDA has done through deeming. This is according to the tobacco whatchamacallit from 2009. Sorry I can't recall the exact name. Hoosier can explain things much better than I. I'm a bit scatterbrained lately, my son is leaving for boot camp Sunday and I'm not in the best of spirits.

 

[tmcase]

Thanks for keeping us up to date @pennysmalls

 

[skoony]

Another update was posted to Hoosier Vapers yesterday. In a nutshell, now that the FDA has released the deeming the legal team representing vapers in Indiana has filed a motion for preemption which basically means that Indiana, or any other state, cannot create laws that go above and beyond what the FDA has done through deeming. This is according to the tobacco whatchamacallit from 2009. Sorry I can't recall the exact name. Hoosier can explain things much better than I. I'm a bit scatterbrained lately, my son is leaving for boot camp Sunday and I'm not in the best of spirits.

I am not a lawyer but I have always assumed that states can't lesson the
effects of Federal regulations through legislative actions but, can add on further
regulations they deem necessary. Isn't this why California can say just about
everything causes cancer?
Regards
Mike

 

[pennysmalls]

I didn't know preemption for tobacco products was a thing until Thursday night Mike, got me all excited though.

Here's a blurb from Hoosier Vapers facebook page that was posted June 3rd.

Tobacco Control and Prevention Act (TCPA)

SEC.916 PRESERVATION OF STATE AND LOCAL AUTHORITY.
(a)(2) PREEMPTION OF CERTAIN STATE AND LOCAL REQUIREMENTS.

...
(A) IN GENERAL – No State or political subdivision of a State may establish or continue in effect with respect to a tobacco product any requirement which is different from, or in addition to, any requirement under the provisions of this chapter relating to tobacco product standards, premarket review, adulteration, misbranding, labeling, registration, good manufacturing standards, or modified risk tobacco products.

I'm waiting for Hoosier Vapers to say more on this, I'd like to know the specifics for how this could help us with the security requirements, inability to get a permit and no out of state purchasing. It was mentioned by the Hoosier Vapers chairman that the state of Indiana was expecting this because of some wording in the legislation, I believe it was "in the absence of federal legislation" or something very close to that. We now have federal guide lines soo.... I'm waiting to learn more.

 

[zoiDman]

I didn't know preemption for tobacco products was a thing until Thursday night Mike, got me all excited though.

Here's a blurb from Hoosier Vapers facebook page that was posted June 3rd.



I'm waiting for Hoosier Vapers to say more on this, I'd like to know the specifics for how this could help us with the security requirements, inability to get a permit and no out of state purchasing. It was mentioned by the Hoosier Vapers chairman that the state of Indiana was expecting this because of some wording in the legislation, I believe it was "in the absence of federal legislation" or something very close to that. We now have federal guide lines soo.... I'm waiting to learn more.

I'm not sure to what Extent this can be Used or Applies?

But I like the "Feel" of that Sec. 916 says.

 

[zoiDman]

This is kinda Old News. But I just happened upon it today. And it is an Interesting Read.

Indiana Attorney General Greg Zoeller Refuses to Rule out Tax Hikes in Bid for Congress

 

[Hoosier]

E-cigarette players fume over favored security firm | 2016-06-18 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

Great article. They don't know what I know, but it is actual journalism's best attempt at putting the pieces together.

BTW: The legislators who voted for this law are completely embarrassed that IBJ caught them, so if you are able, share this article far and wide. Shame the A-hats that thought they could get away with this kind of stuff again. (they are not ashamed of what they did, just getting caught at it. As usual for lawmakers really.)

 

[pennysmalls]

Very disappointed. Just got home from stopping into my local vape shop and come to find out they won't be closing their doors come July 1st. It's so damned messed up. They'll be carrying juices from some of the six permit holders as well as some of their own house liquids. They've sold out. And what I'm not getting and what they wouldn't answer directly is I thought a vape shop had to be a permit holder to sell juice. So if I'm right and the permit is required to sell to the public then they must've sold their shop to one of these permit holders, or done some kind of deal with them. Maybe this was part of the plan all along. I wonder how many other shops have done the same. I won't be stepping foot into that shop again.

This is posted to their facebook page:

BIG NEWS!

Here at the "Vapin" stores we strive to offer the highest quality products. We are proud to announce that in the Valparaiso, Hobart, and Portage area we will be exclusively offering the top selling flavors from Cravin Vapes! Between now and Monday, 6/20/16, expect our shelves to be completely restocked! In total, we will be offering close to 80 flavors to choose from. For those that feared a lack of selection, we are here to tell you there will be plenty to choose from! Not only will we have plenty of new liquid, but we will also be keeping some of our best sellers. We are extremely excited to get this behind us and continue to serve anyone in Northwest Indiana in their journey to be tobacco free!

 

[pennysmalls]

Ok, so after inquiring about this with Hoosier Vapers it sounds like the permit holders can sell to vape shops who can then turn around and sell to the public. I had been thinking this whole time that in order to manufacture or **furnish** liquids to the public a permit was required at the establishment where the transaction takes place. Doesn't sound right to me but I've misunderstood things before.

 

[tmcase]

That's correct penny. The vape shops can sell juice if they buy it from the 6 permit holders but those 6 permit holders are in cahoots with the security company if I understand correctly so they are the enemy. So if you buy their juice the monopoly will continue. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I won't buy any juice from any Indiana vape shop after July 1st. Luckily for me I make my own.

 

[pennysmalls]

Thanks tmcase! I had been thinking for months that even the shops reselling had to have a permit. In any case, I'm with you, no support for the monopoly.

 

[tmcase]

Thanks tmcase! I had been thinking for months that even the shops reselling had to have a permit. In any case, I'm with you, no support for the monopoly.

July 1st will be a sad day. My local vape shop will be shutting down. They are good people, very generous with freebies and help. Excellent customer service. They will be missed.

 

[pennysmalls]

July 1st will be a sad day. My local vape shop will be shutting down. They are good people, very generous with freebies and help. Excellent customer service. They will be missed.

Not cool at all. The ones who did the right thing and stood their ground are paying the price.

 

[tmcase]

What goes around comes around. It ain't over yet.

 

[Hoosier]

Right, as long as they sell exactly what comes from a permit holder, no issues. Change a label or bottle and you need a permit.

Of the 6 permit holders, 2 have never produced juice and still don't. Of the remaining 4, one person owns one company and is co-owner of a second permit holding company.

Funding lawsuits is where vaping advocates have to go now. That's such a sad statement to type.

 

[Rickajho]

Is that funding actually happening anywhere, specifically for this Indiana problem? Not in my backyard, but I'm so ...... about what is going to happen to Parkes that I would donate to the cause.

 

[pennysmalls]

You can go here to donate Rick.....Hoosier Vapers

 

[pennysmalls]

Right, as long as they sell exactly what comes from a permit holder, no issues. Change a label or bottle and you need a permit.

Of the 6 permit holders, 2 have never produced juice and still don't. Of the remaining 4, one person owns one company and is co-owner of a second permit holding company.

Funding lawsuits is where vaping advocates have to go now. That's such a sad statement to type.

If you can't say anything I understand Hoosier but are these vape shops who've caved in communicating with Hoosier Vapers about it all? It easy to see their reasoning for turning, it's a matter of survival at this point but at the same time it's just flat out wrong. I know my particular shop was very active in the fight against this legislation so their turning has me completely shocked.

I can see how shops would "use" the 6 as a means to stay afloat until the lawsuits are settled but at the same time they risk their reputations. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.