Why don't we all save some money and set a date for a plane trip to Washington D.C.? Maybe, Just maybe, our voices and picket signs would be better than driving dangerously deeper underground. Online petitions are worthless. I am willing to take a stand.
Instead of stocking up....
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Unfortunately, this will not work. At least not with this community.
There is no way we're gonna accomplish the "million man march" on Washington Dc unless EVERYONE is committed. Unfortunatley with the current ECF userlist, we only have enough people that actually do anything on ECF to only create a small disturbance in some DC neighborhood and make 5th page news in the Washington Times.
For the past 5 months, I've been screaming from the rooftops in YouTube videos for everyone to get involved. It was largely ignored. Matt Salmon recently stated a displeasure for the utter lack of assistance and commented a dislike of "Arm Chair Quarterbacks" in the world of vaping. I tend to agree with Salmon here.
It's the same 10 people that tend to do anything in here, and the rest are cheerleaders. Sorry, but that is not acceptable in a movement as big as this.
Just my two cents.
There is no way we're gonna accomplish the "million man march" on Washington Dc unless EVERYONE is committed. Unfortunatley with the current ECF userlist, we only have enough people that actually do anything on ECF to only create a small disturbance in some DC neighborhood and make 5th page news in the Washington Times.
For the past 5 months, I've been screaming from the rooftops in YouTube videos for everyone to get involved. It was largely ignored. Matt Salmon recently stated a displeasure for the utter lack of assistance and commented a dislike of "Arm Chair Quarterbacks" in the world of vaping. I tend to agree with Salmon here.
It's the same 10 people that tend to do anything in here, and the rest are cheerleaders. Sorry, but that is not acceptable in a movement as big as this.
Just my two cents.
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Unfortunately no one will act until it is too late.
When the ban does hit everyone will be ...... and forced to take action..
When/if the ban does happen, you will have your following, even if it's a couple months too late..
When the ban does hit everyone will be ...... and forced to take action..
When/if the ban does happen, you will have your following, even if it's a couple months too late..
I'm sorry, but other than writing letters, making phone calls and sending faxes what exactly would you like us to do? We show off our e-cigs to people we meet, we write our elected officials, we Facebook and Digg everything we can. I don't think most of us have the money to stock up on supplies let alone fly all over the country or even our respective states for meetings and protests. I think most of us would like to help, but I've yet to see anything I can do as an individual or even as a group. Do you have some great plan to fix this? Do you know of a way we can change the minds of those in charge? Really, what do you want me to do? 
I think like most, I'm frustrated and angry and I've got no where to put that energy. You got a plan? Let me hear it!
I think like most, I'm frustrated and angry and I've got no where to put that energy. You got a plan? Let me hear it!
"The standard for lower-risk products for use by current smokers," argues the American Association of Public Health Physicians, "should be the hazard posed by cigarettes, not a pharmaceutical safety standard." Telling smokers they may not use e-cigarettes until they're approved by the FDA is like telling a floundering swimmer not to climb aboard a raft because it might have a leak.
I really like this quote. I'm right there with you, JanetDa. It's frustrating. One thing we can do is support the ECA--which is, as far as I know, the strongest voice we have for lobbying the powers that be. I became a supporting member of this forum because I think it serves a valuable role--beyond the exchange of information and support. I'll be donating to ECA as well and probably checking out their site more often in the days ahead. If it means I have less dollars for 'stocking up,' then so be it. The stench of politics and big business is all over this issue.
I can only shake my head in complete disbelief that a bunch of non smoking senior citizens in power would ban e-cigs. tobacco is legal & water vapor isn't. What a joke. Sad & pathetic.
I'm sorry, but other than writing letters, making phone calls and sending faxes what exactly would you like us to do? We show off our e-cigs to people we meet, we write our elected officials, we Facebook and Digg everything we can. I don't think most of us have the money to stock up on supplies let alone fly all over the country or even our respective states for meetings and protests. I think most of us would like to help, but I've yet to see anything I can do as an individual or even as a group. Do you have some great plan to fix this? Do you know of a way we can change the minds of those in charge? Really, what do you want me to do?
I think like most, I'm frustrated and angry and I've got no where to put that energy. You got a plan? Let me hear it!
Exactly!!!
let's stop right here.
Do you realize how condescending this sounds? Please dismount your high horse and think about what you're saying. I understand your frustration and the point you were getting at. But you cannot make a blanket statement like that about a community that has people from so many different walks of life.
I don't offend easily at all, but this post really frosted my apples. I am a single mother living check to check. Don't you think I wish I could go to DC? Spend money campaigning or something else that would get the right attention to our cause? Further, do you really think we are going to change the outcome of the FDA's decision at this point in the game? Maybe, maybe not.
In any event, as was stated perfectly by Janetda, what would you have us all do, if you have such a good handle on what the entire community is capable of?
I have to agree with others. We are writing to our representatives in state legislatures. We are writing to our representatives in the U.S. House and Senate. We are commenting on the FDA site. We have vowed never the cast a ballot in support of anyone - at any level of government - who does not support us.
What more can we do? Do you honestly thinking going up to DC to vape in snow up to our knees on the Mall is going to make a difference?
Like everyone else, I would love to rattle some cages and knock a few idiots on the head, but we are an extremely small group with NO money, no connections and hence no real voice.
What we need is a major corporate player to back us. Right now, the $ed groups all seem so intent on knocking each other out of the potential market they cannot be bothered to save the market itself!
What more can we do? Do you honestly thinking going up to DC to vape in snow up to our knees on the Mall is going to make a difference?
Like everyone else, I would love to rattle some cages and knock a few idiots on the head, but we are an extremely small group with NO money, no connections and hence no real voice.
What we need is a major corporate player to back us. Right now, the $ed groups all seem so intent on knocking each other out of the potential market they cannot be bothered to save the market itself!
We do have a voice. More importantly we have something that corporations don't have, a vote. We have this tool called the internet. Make the message go "viral".
I posted this on the "Virginia Ban" thread yesterday;
"Picture this: November, 2010, 435 U.S. representatives and 30 something U.S. senators out of work. Democrat or Republican doesn't matter. Re-elect no one. It wouldn't take very many elections like this for politicians to realize that they don't work for the presidential administration. They don't work for the party bosses. They work for us.
The same would work for state and local government also."
I posted this on the "Virginia Ban" thread yesterday;
"Picture this: November, 2010, 435 U.S. representatives and 30 something U.S. senators out of work. Democrat or Republican doesn't matter. Re-elect no one. It wouldn't take very many elections like this for politicians to realize that they don't work for the presidential administration. They don't work for the party bosses. They work for us.
The same would work for state and local government also."
let's stop right here.
Do you realize how condescending this sounds? Please dismount your high horse and think about what you're saying. I understand your frustration and the point you were getting at. But you cannot make a blanket statement like that about a community that has people from so many different walks of life.
I don't offend easily at all, but this post really frosted my apples. I am a single mother living check to check. Don't you think I wish I could go to DC? Spend money campaigning or something else that would get the right attention to our cause? Further, do you really think we are going to change the outcome of the FDA's decision at this point in the game? Maybe, maybe not.
In any event, as was stated perfectly by Janetda, what would you have us all do, if you have such a good handle on what the entire community is capable of?
Well, I don't have the money to fly to D.C. either but we could be doing more on a local level. And yes I do mean protesting in the streets. I will say this for the hundreth time, saying "pretty please" to our government officials will not work. They don't listen until you shove it in their faces as loud and as hard as you can.
We also have to make the non-smoking public realize how it will benefit them. That is imperative. Even if it is by threatening to keep smoking anologs if we can't use our e-cigs. "Want to go to a bar or rest. and not have to put up with tobacco smoke? Well, don't go into the restroom where we will all have to sneak a smoke since we can't vape" Honestly, I have no problem with this type of tactic. It is the only thing that works anymore.
Unless a non-smoker can see how it will benefit them to allow vaping, they just aren't going to care.
Not just us either. Get our family and friends involved. Make sure they let their displeasure known that their loved ones are being forced to either go back to smoking or are going to be forced to vape amongst smokers which endangers the health of the vapor. They can join our protests which will increase our numbers drastically.
Some major problems with this thinking is that they have years to screw things up between elections and do you really think they care that much if they get voted out? They will still be paid for the rest of their lives. Now if they got their six months of unemployment, they might pay attention but they know they are set for life even if they have served only one term.
I am still of the mind set that no matter what you do, no matter what you say, no matter how right you are, it won't make a difference, it has never been about public health, it has always been and will always be about money. Big tobacco will loose out on money, big pharm will loose out too because less people will get sick from Big tobaccos product, and with both of them not making as much money that means less taxes go to the government. No my friends when it comes to taking our money back from the government you will never win. I wish i was wrong, i pray that i am, but deep down i know i am right.
If there is something else we can do please let us know. I have written and called congressman, senators as well as my Pennsylvania politicians as well as the NJ reps prior to their ban. I spread word by mouth, have introduced many friends to both vaping and this forum. I've spoke with my personal doctor to document my ecig habit for future test result comparisons. I follow the forum, have filled out questionnaires and logged to sign any petitions, what else can I(we) do?
And again it all boils down to money =/... I wish we could take this to a judge do the old blow into napkin test with both analogs and personal vaporizers, do an air quality test of the air INDOORS and the TAP WATER from the same court building and compare it to the vapor in personal vaporizers and the smog that comes out of analogs to show carcinogen levels from all 4 while in court! show the data that day or the next day of the case. State if the primary ingredients of the liquid is sooo deadly why are all of them FDA approved for human consumption and found in so many products made and sold in the United States today? Show all the data, studies and research that has been done all ready that the FDA has failed to do (from africa to alberta and all others done here in the United States in the past few decades on the ingredients) and finally propose a few things to allow personal vaporizers to be sold and used here in the United States...
1.Allow sale of only American made personal vaporizers made here to control quality (until further notice)
2.Allow sale of only American made personal vaporizer liquid (until further notice) which can only be made with 5 main ingredients: PG, VG, Distilled water, Food flavoring and PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE NICOTINE!
3.Do not impose a limit of flavors on the personal vaporizer liquids, why should there be one if they are sold to adults 21 and over only
4. Control the levels of nicotine between 0 and 30 (anymore they will freak)
5. Restrict the age limit to 21 and above (sold only to adults)
6. They can only be sold from BEHIND THE COUNTER or by an adult on the internet
7. Allow the use of personal vaporizers in public places (bars and restaurants but not in schools) based on the test results shown in court if not assign vaping areas indoors which do not expose vapers to the second hand smoke from analog smokers by putting them in the same areas as analog smokers
1.Allow sale of only American made personal vaporizers made here to control quality (until further notice)
2.Allow sale of only American made personal vaporizer liquid (until further notice) which can only be made with 5 main ingredients: PG, VG, Distilled water, Food flavoring and PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE NICOTINE!
3.Do not impose a limit of flavors on the personal vaporizer liquids, why should there be one if they are sold to adults 21 and over only
4. Control the levels of nicotine between 0 and 30 (anymore they will freak)
5. Restrict the age limit to 21 and above (sold only to adults)
6. They can only be sold from BEHIND THE COUNTER or by an adult on the internet
7. Allow the use of personal vaporizers in public places (bars and restaurants but not in schools) based on the test results shown in court if not assign vaping areas indoors which do not expose vapers to the second hand smoke from analog smokers by putting them in the same areas as analog smokers
And my final part of my post, If personal vaporizers are not approved and banned in the United states then cigarettes should be banned solely on the fact of what cigarettes, cigars and lose tobacco expose the user to from inhaling them and not on what ingredients or materials are used to construct a cigarette, cigar or loose tobacco because banning something that has been shown to release less carcinogens then all the three and the air and water from this very court building would be an injustice to all Americans today as well as tomorrow.
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