Is it all just an act of futility?

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Marc411

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I don’t mean to be such a downer but the deeming regs are nothing more than a money grab and it looks like there is no way to stop it. Too many states are basically in financial ruin and cigarettes are the best source of easy revenue. MSA is driving this governmental initiative. I attached the 2014 MSA generated funds by state and the states with the greatest revenue surprising are fighting the hardest to save our children.

If they were really concerned about the children or our health both cigarettes (lung cancer) and alcohol (liver disease) would be illegal.

Underage drinking is widespread

• According to the 2013 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 35.1 percent of 15-year-olds report that they have had at least 1 drink in their lives.
• About 8.7 million people ages 12–20 (22.7 percent of this age group) reported drinking alcohol in the past month (23 percent of males and 22.5 percent of females).

Young people drink a lot

• According to the 2013 NSDUH, approximately 5.4 million people (about 14.2 percent) ages 12–20 engaged in binge drinking (15.8 percent of males and 12.4 percent of females).
• According to the 2013 NSDUH, approximately 1.4 million people (about 3.7 percent) ages 12–20 engaged in heavy drinking (4.6 percent of males and 2.7 percent of females).

Underage drinking risks include:

• Death – 4,358 people under age 21 die each year from alcohol-related car crashes, homicides, suicides, alcohol poisoning, and other injuries such as falls, burns, and drowning.
• Serious injuries – More than 190,000 people under age 21 visited an emergency room for alcohol-related injuries in 2008 alone.

Our politicians are frauds, we know it but there is really very little we can do, they are no longer of the people for the people.

I read quite a bit of the scientific information that is coming out these days and I am surprised by how uninformed either purposely or because they are idiots our elected officials are on this topic. They refuse to become educated or just ignore science in exchange for money.

When there is millions, most likely billions of dollars on the line do you really think we can stop a government that is more focused on revenue then it is the well-being of the public?

The recent surge in lawsuits, the media ignoring the science and only reporting the negatives, these are only the building blocks for this governmental initiative.

I will stay active, make calls, send letters and sign petitions. I will not give up. But the more I read and watch how our government and media responds it feels like this is a fait accompli.
 

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Rizzyking

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It isn't only in America where people are feeling like you Marc and sadly I think your spot on it is already decided and we're just seeing the facade of democracy. Where I differ with it seems more and more is on whose pulling the strings as many seem to think the tobacco companys are driving things behind the scene's and it isn't it's a lot worse then that and almost impossible to overcome. I will also admit my level of advocacy has decreased as my preparations for what's coming have increased as I think my time is better spent on other things then playing the democracy fraud game. Not sure when or where it all went wrong but the so called free western world is now more draconian in many ways then the old soviet bloc and interferes in the lives of it's citizens to a ridiculous degree, all very depressing.
 

Canadian_Vaper

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The biggest problem is tobacco/pharm companies filling politicians pockets, a lot of these big tobacco companies have a fairly large share in cancer medications as well, basically they are making money buy causing cancer then make even more money by treating it...

Isn't this a nice world we live in?
 

WillieB69

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Don't forget the other side of this coin..... Big Pharmaceutical doesn't like it either. They can't sell us a pill or a patch if we're all vaping.

So.....
Big Tobacco doesn't like it because they're losing money
Big Pharmaceutical doesn't like it because they're losing money
The Government doesn't like it because they're not getting huge amounts of tax money from it. Plus Big T and Big P are paying them to lobby against it.

Three strikes generally means you're out. :(
 

ddirtyvapes

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I'm not as worried as some other people. Here's why:

1) China is one of, if not the, biggest manufacturers of e-cigs in the world. Why can't we continue to buy our devices direct from, even if the regs go through? Clove cigarettes can still be purchased online and actually make it to the US. I don't love Chinese-made devices but it's sure better than nothing.

2) Food-grade flavorings have been around long before e-cigs, and will likely be undisturbed. Same with VG/PG. Why can't we continue to DIY, even if it's 0nic?

3) Kanthal wire has more applications than just ecigs. Why can't we continue to rebuild?

Truly, I'm most worried about having access to nicotine base right now, but I also DIY and rebuild and not everyone does. I also could be WAY OFF, so if I am, please tell me. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate. I basically agree with everything that's been said here... just thinking of ways to say "eff em".
 

Marc411

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I'm just going to answer question two because it's already been discussed even though I hate posting stuff like this on the net. Call me paranoid but I am positive they farm as much information as they can from this site.

The deeming is pretty much wide open, the FDA can and has called liquid nicotine a tobacco product. What would stop them from going to any flavor vendor and enforcing the same classification? I'm sure that in their bizarre little world they can find a way to quantify such actions. If you haven't noticed they are (or believe they are) the all knowing and powerful Oz. They also paint with a pretty broad brush.
 

ddirtyvapes

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The deeming is pretty much wide open, the FDA can and has called liquid nicotine a tobacco product. What would stop them from going to any flavor vendor and enforcing the same classification?

These are two completely different things, and while the reason given for calling liquid nicotine a tobacco product is a stupid reason, it's a reason nonetheless. Others have already discussed in this thread the necessary maintenance of at least the facade of logic and/or democracy. As you are so paranoid about what the government will and will not glean off this site, I feel that I can only say that I would be curious to know what percentage of people purchasing liquid nicotine are somehow involved with the vaping community versus how many people purchasing food-grade flavorings are not. Granted, a chef, baker, candymaker, etc. probably won't be on BCV, but we are not the only ones who have need for food-grade flavors. To your point, I wouldn't put it past any governing body to go after them myself, but I suspect the effects of doing so are much wider reaching than going after liquid nicotine. Maybe I'm wrong, and even if I'm not it doesn't automatically prevent their banishment. I just believe they are a relatively common item divorced from the vaping community and are needed by enough other groups to prevent an immediate crackdown. I can't see the future, though.
 

Rizzyking

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Flavourings, PG, vg, wire, wick and batteries are safe far too many other applications to go after them, now mods, attys and nic base there we are vulnerable and it's those I believe will be the problem either because of a ban or high taxation maybe even a special import tax. I'm not paranoid about things just yet but I'm definitely more cynical and a hell of a lot less trusting of government then I've ever been, we just have to hope that sometime soon the pendulum swings back to the side of the people not the money.
 

Elizabeth Baldwin

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These are two completely different things, and while the reason given for calling liquid nicotine a tobacco product is a stupid reason, it's a reason nonetheless. Others have already discussed in this thread the necessary maintenance of at least the facade of logic and/or democracy. As you are so paranoid about what the government will and will not glean off this site, I feel that I can only say that I would be curious to know what percentage of people purchasing liquid nicotine are somehow involved with the vaping community versus how many people purchasing food-grade flavorings are not. Granted, a chef, baker, candymaker, etc. probably won't be on BCV, but we are not the only ones who have need for food-grade flavors. To your point, I wouldn't put it past any governing body to go after them myself, but I suspect the effects of doing so are much wider reaching than going after liquid nicotine. Maybe I'm wrong, and even if I'm not it doesn't automatically prevent their banishment. I just believe they are a relatively common item divorced from the vaping community and are needed by enough other groups to prevent an immediate crackdown. I can't see the future, though.

I agree completely. The flavoring will go untouched if it's food grade. The only problem is the last time the FDA pulled this they confiscated all shipments from China and nobody got their products. A lot of Ecig companies went out of business because they had a lot of money tied up in those shipments. Anything Ecig related was taken through customs. So I doubt we will be buying from China.

I also DIY. I have 20 years worth of nic frozen. I've also bought extra mods and tanks. It's better to be safe than sorry later.
 
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