Is the nic bar becoming lower?

[vapdivrr]

Is it perhaps because there's simply more dtl, sub ohm mentions now? It just seems like even mtl vapors use way less then just 3 or so years ago. I know some may mention that the gear has changed, but for mtl rebuildables or drop ins, I think it's pretty much the same . All the rebuildables from back then are still being used and the newer tanks aren't that much different. Same with drop in mtl, imo fairly the same, although there are a few more options. I know there's nic salts now and I do see some using, but I still don't see nic levels nearly as high, which is a good thing, perhaps. Could it perhaps be because there's so much mention of sub ohm nic levels that mtl vapors think they should be the same or close? Or maybe newer subbers don't realize that mtl , lower power vapors usually need higher nic and their recommendations are off when they try and help? It also can be when new mtl vapors surf here and see mentions of how individuals have started at 12mg and after a year have lowered to 3mg (but they sometimes don't mention if they sub ohm or have increased their juice consumption at the same time) that they start at a lower amount to start? I don't know, maybe it's just because it's harder to obtain today? It just seems like now, even new mtl vapors start out low, like 12 is the new 24? I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I have noticed more dual use here lately. I guess it's a little of everything I mentioned perhaps. I just feel like now, every time I try to help in threads where someone is asking about their nic, that what helped some years back doesn't pertain anymore and when a few do mention higher nic levels, most think there out of their minds and chime in things like, " 18mg, don't you get dizzy" or " if I vaped that I be flat on my back". .it's still all about trying and finding what works the best for you and that's the correct amount, it just seems like the nic bar has definitely lowered.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Rossum]

MTL vs. DL certainly has a lot to do with it. A year or two ago, it seemed like almost everyone was moving to DL, sucking down 15, 20, or more milliliters of juice per day. But you can't just look at nic strength; you also have multiply that by the amount of juice someone uses per day, and what sort of wattage that person vapes at. There's no question that vape gear is far more powerful than it was a few years ago. Heck, I remember when the DNA20 was considered high-powered, as was vaping on an unregulated device with a coil below 1.0 ohms.

The trend now seems to be back to lower-powered devices with higher nic. Heck, look at the most popular vape out there, the Juul. It's tiny, probably runs at not much more than 5 watts, and uses 50-some mg. liquid...

 

[QcVaper]

Odd, my vape shop still carries 50/50 liquids with nic levels ranging up to 24mg i believe.
If you need more than that..... Well you might have a bigger problem even i couldn't even stand higher than 12mg when i started vaping (on a mtl setup ofc).

 

[Rossum]

I couldn't even stand higher than 12mg when i started vaping (on a mtl setup ofc).

Curious: What kind of setup, running what kind of wattage?

 

[VapourFlavour]

As someone who is still relatively new to vaping I can share my experience with nic levels. This past summer I decided to give vaping a try because every other quit smoking method had failed. Not knowing if vaping would be for me, I didn't want to spend a lot to give it a shot. I picked up the Breeze and bought 24mg nic salts in tobacco flavor. When I got home I threw the cigarettes in the garbage, primed my Breeze and took a hit. I almost coughed up a lung haha! I made the mistake of thinking that since I was a heavy smoker that I'd need to buy a high nic level juice. There was no way I was digging those cigarettes out of the garbage or going to the corner store to buy more, I was committing to this!! I jumped in the car, back to the vape shop and bought 12mg. Very little coughing after that. Within a week I had purchased my first mod with sub ohm tank and 6mg free base juice. I now own several mods and vape 3mg. I have been using rta and rda's for a while, it was a very fast evolution from smoking to diving full on to everything vaping. I still haven't touched a cigarette since the day they went in the garbage!

 

[QcVaper]

Curious: What kind of setup, running what kind of wattage?

Hell if i remember the name of the mod (mostly a generic 35 watts integrated battery)
Tank was a nautilus full 5ml sized,at probably less than 10 watts (i think the highest i ever went was 13-15 watts but by then i already had lowered my nic levels).

NB: i should probably point out i didn't stay with that setup for long either (less than a month i'd say) before going into sub 0hm and 6mg juices.

 

[Kickingthesticks]

Yes I remember getting regular nic juce in 36mg a few years ago, awesome throat hit lol. I think the nic changes with what device is mostly available, and with the rise of sub ohm high power mods the nic mg just went down. Like with the introduction of pod mods high nic is on the rise again, though using salts this time. As a low wattage user I've decreased my mg way down.

 

[Skunk!]

I started on an ego and PT2 with 18mg. Started using mechanical mods and increased wattage and lowered nic to 12, then 9 then 6, where I have been for a couple years. I am all over the place as far as power levels go, from 20 to 90 watts depending on my mood, but always 6mg. I tried 9 again once and it is too harsh for me now. Even on my stealth setups.

 

[bombastinator]

I think the issue is not that new vapers are using less nic, but that long term vapors tend to naturally reduce nic over time

 

[Eskie]

Odd, my vape shop still carries 50/50 liquids with nic levels ranging up to 24mg i believe.
If you need more than that..... Well you might have a bigger problem even i couldn't even stand higher than 12mg when i started vaping (on a mtl setup ofc).

I started at 24 mg and it was at least 6 months before I moved down to 12, but doubled the volume I vaped. Now I'm down to 6 and depending on the build 3 mg, but again my daily volume has gone up although not as dramatically as in the beginning.

I do think the availability of nic salts for the pod mtl type stuff has also increased the perceived amount being vaped but the volumes are quite small and the nic hit not the same as say throwing 12 mg on a dtl dual coil RTA.

 

[smoked25years]

I started with the Juul which is around 5%. If I recall correctly, Juul measures by weight whereas most others typically measure by volume. And it is slightly higher than 50 mg/ml if measured by volume instead.

It was too much for me so I bought a Suorin Air and 25mg/ml Mr Salt E. I vaped 2 ml per day. Over time, I was able to decrease the concentration gradually without increasing my consumption. It's been 8 months since I started at 50mg/ml and I now vape 6mg/ml while keeping my consumption at 2ml per day.

If I had tried starting at 6mg/ml I would have had a difficult time. I've only been at 6mg/ml for about 2 weeks and I'm barely managing with that low concentration. There's a real urge to vape more than my 2 ml. I'm not sure if I'll try 3mg/ml or 0mg/ml next. I use pod mods and RTAs (like the Kayfun Prime) at low wattage.

There's a real push by eliquid companies and vape shops for subohm vaping. The more liquid you buy, the more money they make so it is understandable. There's also a strong hate for anything else, especially pods. That strong hate actually delayed my switch to vaping by a month. The local vape store was pushing sub ohm stuff on me and I knew that wasn't for me. A month later, I picked up a Juul at a gas station.

 

[vapdivrr]

MTL vs. DL certainly has a lot to do with it. A year or two ago, it seemed like almost everyone was moving to DL, sucking down 15, 20, or more milliliters of juice per day. But you can't just look at nic strength; you also have multiply that by the amount of juice someone uses per day, and what sort of wattage that person vapes at. There's no question that vape gear is far more powerful than it was a few years ago. Heck, I remember when the DNA20 was considered high-powered, as was vaping on an unregulated device with a coil below 1.0 ohms.

The trend now seems to be back to lower-powered devices with higher nic. Heck, look at the most popular vape out there, the Juul. It's tiny, probably runs at not much more than 5 watts, and uses 50-some mg. liquid...

True.....I didn't take the juul, pod mod devices into account. Yes they are high nic and perhaps new mtl vapors move that direction rather then the basic mtl tanks I see here

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[vapdivrr]

Odd, my vape shop still carries 50/50 liquids with nic levels ranging up to 24mg i believe.
If you need more than that..... Well you might have a bigger problem even i couldn't even stand higher than 12mg when i started vaping (on a mtl setup ofc).

No I dont....I wasn't talking about myself, but in general . I personally don't know alot of vapors and never have bought from local places, so all my knowledge is from what I have seen here in the last 7 years. I understand the trend to lower with sub ohm, but at least here that trend seems to also involve mtl tanks as well.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[vapdivrr]

I started with the Juul which is around 50mg/ml. If I recall correctly, Juul measures by weight whereas most others typically measure by volume. And it is slightly higher than 50 mg/ml if measured by volume instead.

It was too much for me so I bought a Suorin Air and 25mg/ml Mr Salt E. I vaped 2 ml per day. Over time, I was able to decrease the concentration gradually without increasing my consumption. It's been 8 months since I started at 50mg/ml and I now vape 6mg/ml while keeping my consumption at 2ml per day.

If I had tried starting at 6mg/ml I would have had a difficult time. I've only been at 6mg/ml for about 2 weeks and I'm barely managing with that low concentration. There's a real urge to vape more than my 2 ml. I'm not sure if I'll try 3mg/ml or 0mg/ml next. I use pod mods and RTAs (like the Kayfun Prime) at low wattage.

There's a real push by eliquid companies and vape shops for subohm vaping. The more liquid you buy, the more money they make so it is understandable. There's also a strong hate for anything else, especially pods. That strong hate actually delayed my switch to vaping by a month. The local vape store was pushing sub ohm stuff on me and I knew that wasn't for me. A month later, I picked up a Juul at a gas station.

I never tried a pod mod, is the vape similiar to a kayfun?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[ScottP]

Is it perhaps because there's simply more dtl, sub ohm mentions now? It just seems like even mtl vapors use way less then just 3 or so years ago. I know some may mention that the gear has changed, but for mtl rebuildables or drop ins, I think it's pretty much the same . All the rebuildables from back then are still being used and the newer tanks aren't that much different. Same with drop in mtl, imo fairly the same, although there are a few more options. I know there's nic salts now and I do see some using, but I still don't see nic levels nearly as high, which is a good thing, perhaps. Could it perhaps be because there's so much mention of sub ohm nic levels that mtl vapors think they should be the same or close? Or maybe newer subbers don't realize that mtl , lower power vapors usually need higher nic and their recommendations are off when they try and help? It also can be when new mtl vapors surf here and see mentions of how individuals have started at 12mg and after a year have lowered to 3mg (but they sometimes don't mention if they sub ohm or have increased their juice consumption at the same time) that they start at a lower amount to start? I don't know, maybe it's just because it's harder to obtain today? It just seems like now, even new mtl vapors start out low, like 12 is the new 24? I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I have noticed more dual use here lately. I guess it's a little of everything I mentioned perhaps. I just feel like now, every time I try to help in threads where someone is asking about their nic, that what helped some years back doesn't pertain anymore and when a few do mention higher nic levels, most think there out of their minds and chime in things like, " 18mg, don't you get dizzy" or " if I vaped that I be flat on my back". .it's still all about trying and finding what works the best for you and that's the correct amount, it just seems like the nic bar has definitely lowered.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Yes equipment has been largely pushing the lower levels. I started at 24mg (quickly dropping to 18mg) but that was using cig-a-likes that had very little vapor production (less than a cigarette). When I started using clearo's (Evods and AROs) I had to drop to 12mg (later 9mg) but they produced a LOT more vapor than the aforementioned cig-a-likes. I don't really use true-MTL devices any more, but my wife is using an Ares MTL tank at 6mg. Even though the Ares is "MTL" and uses very little wattage, it still produces a lot more vapor than even those old clearo's.

To me the mg/ml is driven more by actual vapor production than it is by vape style (mtl/dtl) and the truth is that modern MTL equipment does produce more vapor than older mtl equipment. Now pod systems like Juul are a bit of a different story. I have seen and tried a Juul and it's vapor production is less than the Ares for instance.

 

[Rossum]

No I dont....I wasn't talking about myself, but in general . I personally don't know alot of vapors and never have bought from local places, so all my knowledge is from what I have seen here in the last 7 years. I understand the trend to lower with sub ohm, but at least here that trend seems to also involve mtl tanks as well.

FWIW, I started almost five years ago with eGo type devices and mostly 18mg juices, with some 24 here and there. That got me off cigs in less than a week; I never finished the pack I'd opened the day my starter kit arrived in the mail.

A month or so after putting the cigs down, I figured I could/should reduce to 12 so I bought some. Didn't work -- not satisfying. So I decided to try something intermediate. I mixed the 12 with 18 to get 15 and that was OK. I stuck with 15 for several years, including the transition from eGo to Kayfun to MTL squonking, where I've remained. About two years ago, after I had gone completely to DIY, I started reducing my nic again, 0.5 mg at a time. I've made it all the way down to 13 that way, where I've been stuck for more than a year, and I really don't feel ready to go lower.

 

[vapdivrr]

As someone who is still relatively new to vaping I can share my experience with nic levels. This past summer I decided to give vaping a try because every other quit smoking method had failed. Not knowing if vaping would be for me, I didn't want to spend a lot to give it a shot. I picked up the Breeze and bought 24mg nic salts in tobacco flavor. When I got home I threw the cigarettes in the garbage, primed my Breeze and took a hit. I almost coughed up a lung haha! I made the mistake of thinking that since I was a heavy smoker that I'd need to buy a high nic level juice. There was no way I was digging those cigarettes out of the garbage or going to the corner store to buy more, I was committing to this!! I jumped in the car, back to the vape shop and bought 12mg. Very little coughing after that. Within a week I had purchased my first mod with sub ohm tank and 6mg free base juice. I now own several mods and vape 3mg. I have been using rta and rda's for a while, it was a very fast evolution from smoking to diving full on to everything vaping. I still haven't touched a cigarette since the day they went in the garbage!

Did You try a regular mtl tank with the same juice before moving to sub ohm? Probably would have been just as strong?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Rossum]

I never tried a pod mod, is the vape similiar to a kayfun?

Depends which one. As Scott mentioned, the vapor production from a Juul is rather anemic. But something like a Breeze is quite good. I used a couple of Breeze devices instead of my usual squonkers on a trip to Europe last month because I didn't want to risk any of my nice (and at this point essentially irreplaceable) squonkers to an over-zealous customs agent.

 

[vapdivrr]

I think the issue is not that new vapers are using less nic, but that long term vapors tend to naturally reduce nic over time

Could be......I tend to focus on the mtl side here, cause that's what I do and it seemed a few years ago that list came up when people asked about nic.. it was a guideline, like if you smoked 1.5 pad you should start at 24mg and so one down the list....I just don't see that anymore fir mtl vapors. I do think it could be the pod mod thing, as that perhaps has replaced what I'm seeing and I don't really follow those threads...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Uncle Willie]

JUUL vaporizes a liquid that contains nicotine salts. In JULL, these nicotine salts are absorbed into the body at almost the same speed as nicotine in regular cigarettes, a speed that comes from the use of freebase nicotine. As of March, JUUL made up more than half of all e-cigarette retail market sales in the US and has singlehandedly doubled the market ..

I started with 24mg Nic .. working my way down to 8-10mg over the years .. I have a JUUL and it does pack a punch, I don't use it exclusively .. based on size, portability, inconspicuous, easy to refill Pods and the Nic Hit, the JUUL type is likely the future of the tech .. most Consumers drift toward easy to use, easy to carry ..

The Commercially available liquid has dropped in potency, although there are still vendors that offer 36mg, you just have to really drill down .. and, I think there has been a Liquid Price war on for a while .. I've seen 120ml bottles for as low as $9.00 + shipping ..