Oh, I am certain they will be. Perhaps you mean they won't be in any FDA Approved eliquids over a particular limit?
Is the whole scandal with da and ap overblown? Some numbers inside
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Oh, I am certain they will be. Perhaps you mean they won't be in any FDA Approved eliquids over a particular limit?
Whatever you say Jman8.
Even if the FDA would somehow Approve Diketones for Inhalation use ( Which they Wouldn't but lets Humor you.) in e-Liquids, I don't see any of the Approved OEM's using it.
It's not worth the Liability of Future Lawsuits just so you can have a Buttery or Creamy Flavor that you like.
DA/AP simply aren't needed. Plenty of high quality e-liquid makers can make great e-liquid without them. They may not be banned in the first round, but will be eventually...
You are Correct. I don't see the FDA perceiving Diketone Flavorings as being Needed.
And I don't think they will even Last into Subsequent "Rounds".
You seem fairly confident @zoiDman, would you care to make it interesting? Humor me? Cause I am 100% certain they will be found within first 3 years of final rule. And around 90% certain within first 10 years.
The smart e-liquid manufacturers recognized this as a problem years ago and developed flavors without diacetyl. Others, simply made what they can get their customers addicted to. The others won't be around in a regulated market...
This tells me that you have very little idea what eLiquids contain diketones. No wonder your previous comments are nonsensical. Please wager with me.
Jeeze Jman8.
Half of the time I debate if it would be Better to put you Back on the Ignore List. Why would I want to Enter into a Wager with you? What would it Prove?
Saying that you want to Bet to prove your Point is like something out of a Grade School Lunch Room.
I put forth the wager because I'm willing to demonstrate that your claims are false. You use the "whatever you say" type rhetoric which is truly 2nd grade stuff. I go with wager which if you really believed what you wrote would be fair way to settle the debate. Thus, if no wager, then no reason to believe what you are saying other than personal, subjective opinion that ought to be taken with a grain of salt and is not something you can stand behind.
Oh and please put me on your ignore list if childish enough to post about such nonsense publicly.
Oh and please put me on your ignore list if childish enough to post about such nonsense publicly.
Zoid would you knock these sorts of unfounded statements off?
there is no proof that reputable or unreputable vendors have ever
poisoned any one. No one is putting anything they want into the juice.
Every one is playing by the same rules. To imply other wise is a
disservice to your fellow vapers.
Regards
Mike
The FDA is going to do whats in their and their stakeholders best interest irregardless of anything else.
Regards
Mike
Who said that Vendors are "Poisoning" anyone? Those are Your Words Not Mine.
And what are these "Rules" you speak of that everyone is Playing By?
Is putting Diketones in e-liquids in the Best Interest of their "Stakeholders"? If Not including them would cause Less Potential Health Problems?
There are soo many new vapers coming on board to vaping everyday and those who have been vaping for some time now that have no clue about diketones. This is why i think sellers should be REQUIRED BY LAW to inform buyers if their liquid has been tested or not for it. This will prompt people to now be aware of diketones and allow them to make an informed decision about whether or not they wish to vape liquids with diketones in it. It not only protects vapers who would otherwise not wish to vape this stuff once aware of it, but also protects the seller from anyone coming back on them with lawsuits saying they were sold something without any knowledge of it's existence, which noting if it's been tested or not would, or a warning that it may pose a risk to their health and now it has.
Just like those who feel there is nothing to be concerned about regarding diketones, if health problems do arise, they or those who bought from the seller can't say they didn't know the risk when they chose to buy and vape it. I think an awful lot of people who are dismissing the health concerns will be the first ones sitting in a lawyers office if these forewarned health problems come to be in their own lives....and those are the ones who don't deserve a penny. They are the ones who chose the dangerous game of gambling and wagering with their own health and going around betting it wouldn't cause them or anyone else health problems.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow people to make their own choices about diketones and that it not be regulated, but when it's time to pay up...only they should be held accountable in the end for the fate of their own health problems caused by their own choices. Choices should come with accountability and by sellers providing this information no one is to blame but the buyer.
Just like those who feel there is nothing to be concerned about regarding diketones, if health problems do arise, they or those who bought from the seller can't say they didn't know the risk when they chose to buy and vape it. I think an awful lot of people who are dismissing the health concerns will be the first ones sitting in a lawyers office if these forewarned health problems come to be in their own lives....and those are the ones who don't deserve a penny. They are the ones who chose the dangerous game of gambling and wagering with their own health and going around betting it wouldn't cause them or anyone else health problems.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow people to make their own choices about diketones and that it not be regulated, but when it's time to pay up...only they should be held accountable in the end for the fate of their own health problems caused by their own choices. Choices should come with accountability and by sellers providing this information no one is to blame but the buyer.
Why don't you explain it. Your the one insisting that there are vendors out there putting
anything they want into e-juice. Every day more and more reports of e-juice poisoning
all us unsuspecting consumers. We had better get the FDA to put a stop to it. Then we
will have some real rules by golly. The FDA will clean this mess right up lickity split.
Yes. Why not? Let the market decide or if at such time its determined to be detrimental
we can decide then whats best.
Regards
Mike
It is not your or my job to inform new vapers of any thing with out the proof to back it up.
There is no evidence indicating diketones behave the same when dispersed and suspended
in a viscous liquid as they did in in factory settings in pure form. All this hand wringing for
a malady that if it wasn't for the fact that two factory workers at a coffee roasting plant
contracting OB had virtually disappeared off the face of the earth.
Regards
Mike
Although I am not freaked out by DA/AP (my higher-powered vaping doesn't include flavors that are likely to contain DA/AP), I have to agree. The lethal concentration of hydrogen cyanide is 7.1 ppm (CDC data). That doesn't mean I'd be happy about breathing it in at .71 ppm.
DA/AP are avoidable risks, so I would prefer my e-liquid not contain it, even though I am not 100% convinced that their presence in vapor constitute an immediate threat to my health.
Why don't you explain it. Your the one insisting that there are vendors out there putting
anything they want into e-juice. Every day more and more reports of e-juice poisoning
all us unsuspecting consumers. We had better get the FDA to put a stop to it. Then we
will have some real rules by golly. The FDA will clean this mess right up lickity split.
Yes. Why not? Let the market decide or if at such time its determined to be detrimental
we can decide then whats best.
Regards
Mike
Not sure what Needs to be Explained to you?
If I want to use Ungraded VG or VG made from Biodiesel, No problem. Or if I want to store Ingredients on Polystyrene contains, what the Difference? And Flavoring with Any ppm Amount of Diketones, it makes it Yummy. So how can that be Bad?
---
So when it comes to Health and Safety, it should be the Market that decides what is Best. Gotcha.
Kinda sounds like what happened with Regular Cigarettes. And why there are so Many Chemicals in them now.
Are you for or against regulations? On the one hand you offer unrealistic scenarios of whats being put in the juice then,
you rail against what the FDA did concerning cigarettes. Which is it? I wish you would offer some proof of of substandard
ingredients being used in e-juice. You might want to correct me if I am wrong but,biodiesel is a mixture of used cooking
oils and diesel fuel although you could use VG I think. I'd think it awfully expensive to turn it back into VG. VG can be
made out of recycled cooking oils but its forbidden by law to be used for human consumption. Everything else doesn't make
any sense. After a point adding more flavor would be a non-starter. I think you are referring to Polystyrene containers.
The only thing I would put in one of them is my beer and my bait.
Regards
Mike
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