Is vaping more dangerous than we think?

[Alien Traveler]

Just because nicotine doesn't cause you as much bodily harm as ......, .... etc. doesn't mean that it's not an addiction my friend. How much money do people mindlessly spend on vape/tobacco products and think to themselves " I wanna quit" but never do. That's dibilitating and slowly breaking you down whether you want to believe that or not. If you uncontrollably Injest or inhale something everyday with the intention to want to quit but cannot. That's addiction. And maybe your different than everybody else who knows. yoi don't have to have a full chemical dependable to be addicted. Do you get all these physical Symptoms you speak of when your addicted to gambling? Of course not but that doesn't mean your not addicted especially if your spending all your money on it and can't pay your bills.

Addiction meaning:
"devotion to, dedication to, obsession with, infatuation with, passion for, love of, mania for, enslavement to"

We see you are to new here (and in medical field dealing with addictions).

What is exactly the debilitation you speak of ? Do you know the difference between addiction and habit?
Do you know why something is considered an addiction and why something is not? Does nicotine addiction
cause skin ulcers? Does nicotine addiction cause your teeth to fall out. Does nicotine alter your perception
of reality. Does nicotine cause mental and physical deterioration. Does nicotine addiction compel one
to harm his fellow man? Does nicotine addiction cause such disruption in ones life as to not be able
to hold a job or maintain ones family life?
I am asking you because you seem to know so much about the subject.

Regards
Mike

Addiction | Psychology Today
Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (e.g., alcohol,......., nicotine) or engages in an activity (e.g., gambling, sex, shopping) that can be pleasurable but the continued use/act of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary life responsibilities, such as work, relationships, or health. Users may not be aware that their behavior is out of control and causing problems for themselves and others.

Addiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences.[7] It can be thought of as a disease or biological process leading to such behaviors.[1][8] The two properties that characterize all addictive stimuli are that they are reinforcing (i.e., they increase the likelihood that a person will seek repeated exposure to them) and intrinsically rewarding (i.e., something perceived as being positive or desirable)....
Examples of drug and behavioral addictions include: alcoholism, amphetamine addiction, ....... addiction, nicotine addiction, opiate addiction, exercise addiction, food addiction, gambling addiction, and sexual addiction.

 

[VNeil]

Is it just me or are we going back to the 60's mentality of "I believe nicotine isn't addictive" and "cigarettes are safe" what do people actually believe artificial flavoring is made up of "magical pg", shouldn't we still be thinking risk reduction from smokes rather than risk elimination ? the best part is if you take out said "toxic" compound and substitute it for another does that make it less harmful and if it does how much less is it ?

No. We have a new mentality of "it must be harmfull" with no clear evidence whatsoever

 

[VNeil]

Is it just me or are we going back to the 60's mentality of "I believe nicotine isn't addictive" and "cigarettes are safe" what do people actually believe artificial flavoring is made up of "magical pg", shouldn't we still be thinking risk reduction from smokes rather than risk elimination ? the best part is if you take out said "toxic" compound and substitute it for another does that make it less harmful and if it does how much less is it ?

And there is much good science suggesting little or no nicotine dependence except when combined with tobacco.

 

[sparkky1]

We are all adults here and we all chose to smoke at our own risk. I'm not happy that I smoke but I do believe Vaping is a much safer alternative. The whole "popcorn lung" thing is still completely unproven. However, it's still a cause for concern. I personally do not mind if the government wants to regulate Vaping for our own good. It's proven that "addicts" cannot make a racional decision based on there addiction so let's put it in to someone's hands we can trust like a highly respected medical institute to determine if it is safe for us or not. No conspiracy jargon here

I'm really not to sure you understand what it is that the FDA really does but I will tell you in 1989 they were far warned for three years of the inhalation dangers of diacetyl by three well respected medical specialist and the only thing they did was force OSHA to step in and start testing and set guidelines, so 15 years later there going to start testing ejuice ?

 

[mattiem]

And there is much good science suggesting little or no nicotine dependence except when combined with tobacco.

Problem is, no matter how many times it is said there are those that just can't seem to separate the two. I don't have any facts to back it up but I think a switch in our bodies is switched to the on position when we started smoking. I am thinking the switch in never smokers stays in the off position. I hope I am correct and those never smokers that are considering picking up the smoking habit, choose vaping over smoking. I think it will be much easier to give up the habit of vaping than it is for lots of smokers to give up smoking. JMHO

I could be way off base but that is what I think.

 

[llmercll]

The problem with vaping is the possibility that more and more people will do it, on the unproven basis that it's safe. More and more nonsmokers, anyway. People who may have never inhaled anything but air (although how clean is that these days, haha). For smokers, however, vaping is a fantastic alternative. Most ex smokers seem to feel considerably better after the switch, which says a lot.

With fruit loops cereal and jolly rancher flavors out there, however, it appeals to everyone. Whenever I vape, people around me want to try it, they smell the flavors and see the process of it all. For some reason people seem to like "smoke" in their lungs. And most all of us enjoy flavors. Fortunately, most of these people (in my experiences) decide to opt out of actively getting into vaping, because they realize it's an unknown risk. And I also actively persuade them not to unless they already smoke cigs.

There is no doubt that vaping has to potential to cause damage to our lungs/mouth/throats. Nicotine is an irritant and inflammatory agent, period. The science is in, people. I've experienced wheezing and mouth-sores after extending vaping. The convenience and cost also increases likelihood to chain vape, which may be considerably worse for our health (that's intuitive, no?). In addition, flavors are so diverse, that the potential for a toxic reaction to occur is not insignificant, as has seen with diacetyl. Statistically, it would make sense we will see similar cases in the future with different chemicals (Hell, it isn't good to even digest this stuff). In fact, all the different flavorings, temperatures, and coil materials are part of what make the health of vaping a complex topic. Maybe only overheated coils are damaging. Maybe only popcorn flavors are. Maybe TC nickel coils are. It all remains speculation at this point, and the tremendous amount of variables make the science more difficult.

If you can quit cigarettes by using an e-cig, do it. It's a godsend for many of us, and we should be free to vape. But please do not start vaping because you think it's safe or it has cool flavors. And please don't encourage friends and family to because it got you off cigs and you think it's safe.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[VNeil]

Problem is, no matter how many times it is said there are those that just can't seem to separate the two. I don't have any facts to back it up but I think a switch in our bodies is switched to the on position when we started smoking. I am thinking the switch in never smokers stays in the off position. I hope I am correct and those never smokers that are considering picking up the smoking habit, choose vaping over smoking. I think it will be much easier to give up the habit of vaping than it is for lots of smokers to give up smoking. JMHO

I could be way off base but that is what I think.

That is exactly what the science suggests. Never smoking vapers are unlikely to become heavily dependent on nic. We ex smokers will always have that "switch turned on".

 

[sparkky1]

Problem is, no matter how many times it is said there are those that just can't seem to separate the two. I don't have any facts to back it up but I think a switch in our bodies is switched to the on position when we started smoking. I am thinking the switch in never smokers stays in the off position. I hope I am correct and those never smokers that are considering picking up the smoking habit, choose vaping over smoking. I think it will be much easier to give up the habit of vaping than it is for lots of smokers to give up smoking. JMHO

I could be way off base but that is what I think.

So your saying they manufacture special nicotine just for ejuice ?

 

[NeXtDimensionVaping]

Not sure how some people in here are saying nicotine is not addictive. Its as addictive as .......

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[mattiem]

llmercll, Nicotine is an irritant and inflammatory agent, period.

Is this documented? I would love to read up on it as I've not experienced any problems with it. I can see where heavily flavored e-liquid could cause some of the things you have experienced when used in excess.

I am in no way saying that you are wrong. Just curious as to where you heard this or if you have just experienced it yourself.

 

[MMW]

Once a cucumber becomes a pickle, it can't go back to being a cucumber.

Also, I know it's not safe but I like having a choice on how to deliver vapor with or without nicotine and/or flavoring.

 

[VNeil]

The problem with vaping is the possibility that more and more people will do it, on the unproven basis that it's safe. More and more nonsmokers, anyway.

That's not the problem. The problem is that, just in the USA alone, roughly one million young people will start smoking every year. Unless they find a better alternative. (hint hint) It is wrong to view vaping in a vacuum. For smokers, ex smokers or young never smokers. I won't comment on your hand wringing over all the unknowns. I'm too worried about cell phone caused brain cancer and GMO foods to worry about that.

 

[mattiem]

So your saying they manufacture special nicotine just for ejuice ?

no, I am not saying that at all and I am sorry to have to say this but that is just plain nit-picking. I am just saying that smokers get a lot more from smoking than vaporers get from vapor. There is a lot more in cigarettes than there is in e-liquid. I am sure you know that if you are/were a smoker.

 

[VNeil]

So your saying they manufacture special nicotine just for ejuice ?

No, the thinking is that other chemicals in cigarettes somehow reinforce the dependency. The dependency of tobacco delivered nicotine is well known. What few people want to accept is that there have been many studies that required never smokers to ingest nicotine via patches or other NRTs in order to study the mental health benefits for diseases such as Alzheimers. NONE, repeat NONE of those test subjects showed any dependency after the tests were concluded (usually 6 months or so) and their nicotine discontinued.

There is also evidence that never smokers that use over the counter NRTs only very rarely show any dependency. Even the FDA recognizes this although you never hear them talking about that because they are too busy demonizing vaping. The fact that NIC dependency among never smokers is rare is a big part of the reason NRTs went over the counter. If FDA considered NIC addictive it would be treated like any other addictive controlled substance and available by prescription only.

This isn't theory, this is all observational fact. And the reason why Nic is addictive in cigs but not by itself is not important, the fact that it is what it is is what's important.

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

New e-cig study reveals crisis in journalism

.....

Some levels found to be lower than that found in air.....

 

[sparkky1]

no, I am not saying that at all and I am sorry to have to say this but that is just plain nit-picking. I am just saying that smokers get a lot more from smoking than vaporers get from vapor. There is a lot more in cigarettes than there is in e-liquid. I am sure you know that if you are/were a smoker.

No, the thinking is that other chemicals in cigarettes somehow reinforce the dependency. The dependency of tobacco delivered nicotine is well known. What few people want to accept is that there have been many studies that required never smokers to ingest nicotine via patches or other NRTs in order to study the mental health benefits for diseases such as Alzheimers. NONE, repeat NONE of those test subjects showed any dependency after the tests were concluded (usually 6 months or so) and their nicotine discontinued.

There is also evidence that never smokers that use over the counter NRTs only very rarely show any dependency. Even the FDA recognizes this although you never hear them talking about that because they are too busy demonizing vaping. The fact that NIC dependency among never smokers is rare is a big part of the reason NRTs went over the counter. If FDA considered NIC addictive it would be treated like any other addictive controlled substance and available by prescription only.

This isn't theory, this is all observational fact. And the reason why Nic is addictive in cigs but not by itself is not important, the fact that it is what it is is what's important.

Why are cigarettes not on the FDA's controlled substance list ?

 

[bigdancehawk]

I personally do not mind if the government wants to regulate Vaping for our own good. It's proven that "addicts" cannot make a racional decision based on there addiction so let's put it in to someone's hands we can trust like a highly respected medical institute to determine if it is safe for us or not.

Is this tongue-in-cheek? The CDC, ALA, AHA, the University of California at San Francisco, and several other "highly respected medical institutions" have already saved you the trouble of making that determination. So, irrational addicts that we are, we are spared the task of making our own decisions. George Orwell and Aldous Huxley are spinning in their graves.

Indeed, medical science has a stellar record of devising treatments for addiction:

"Some doctors asked patients to imbibe their favorite drink, often slowly, in a room full of mirrors to focus the attention on the beverage. They then induced vomiting with emetics or administered electric shocks. Several, however, went so far as to advocate adding rotted sea grapes, mole blood, sparrow dung, powdered pork or even a live eel to an alcoholic’s drink of choice."

Dr. Keeley alleged that his treatment was made of “double chloride of gold”—but it was reported by various sources to actually contain coca, morphine, strychnine, arsenic or an extract of the deadly nightshade plant, as well as other, slightly less deadly but still-powerful medicines. Keeley claimed a 95% cure rate on this treatment. That figure was challenged by the medical and scientific establishment when former patients and their families began to report side effects ranging from insanity to relapse to death."

"By 1922, 15 US states had passed laws [authorizing sterilization of alcoholics], and even states with voluntary sterilization laws often pressured institutionalized alcoholics—particularly women—to undergo the procedure."

"In the 1940s and ’50s, doctors believed that injecting addicts with adrenocorticotropic hormones or other extracts of the adrenal gland would help stabilize the endocrine system, ending the craving for alcohol."

In the 1950s, "to treat addicts in the prison population, doctors would create blisters on the addict’s stomach, remove fluid from the blisters with a hypodermic needle, and then re-inject that fluid into the addict’s arm. This was repeated four to five times per day for just under a week."

"Frontal lobotomy was used as a method of treatment for narcotics addiction primarily between 1948 and 1952."

History's Scariest Addiction Treatments | The Fix

 

[Alien Traveler]

... If FDA considered NIC addictive it would be treated like any other addictive controlled substance and available by prescription only.

No. FDA already consider nicotine an addictive substance. Alcohol and coffee also. It is not enough for them to be listed as controlled substances.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Is this documented? I would love to read up on it as I've not experienced any problems with it. I can see where heavily flavored e-liquid could cause some of the things you have experienced when used in excess.

I am in no way saying that you are wrong. Just curious as to where you heard this or if you have just experienced it yourself.

I think near nothing documented concerning vaping. I believe it is irritant (throat hit, for example). In cigarettes (may be) it was impossible to separate effects of smoke and nicotine by itself.

 

[bigdancehawk]

Why are cigarettes not on the FDA's controlled substance list ?

Because the U.S. Congress has specifically denied them that authority.