It's these kind of people that are going to ruin it for all of us...
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vaping IS NOT A RIGHT.
There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees you the right to vape. vaping is a PRIVILEGE, and the fastest way you can lose a privilege is to abuse it.
If you think you have the right to vape anywhere you want, keep in mind that the non-vaper next to you has the right not to be exposed to your vapor. Your rights do not overrule theirs.
One thing I've been wondering since the smoking bans started... why do theirs overrule ours?
Andria
When it was proven that second hand smoke was a public health hazard.
I still believe that the whole second hand smoke thing is just a big myth created to carry forth an agenda.
I am sorry to say, I must disagree with you on this.
Now - I'll be the first to step forward and say that vaping - as with anything, is due a certain degree of judgment and discretion. No, blowing clouds in the grocery store is not good behavior. It's like vaping a strong flavor in a restaurant where people are trying to enjoy food and drink that may well not pair with your vape - just damn rude.
However, vaping is a RIGHT.
The constitution doesn't give you your rights. Your rights are natural to your person. "Endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. That among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"
Until and unless vaping is proven to cause measurable harm to bystanders, vaping falls under the latter of the two "liberty and pursuit of happiness".
The constitution, genius device that it is, serves the function of PROTECTING your rights from the counterforce of government, which has the unerring tendency to become more oppressive over time. It is not the source of your rights - being human is the source of your rights. The constitution is the guarantee that government can't take your rights away.
I'd say it's actually all three, since most of us are vaping in order to refrain from doing something that is a threat to our health, and thus our lives -- that is a natural right which cannot be taken away or abridged.
But no, vaping everywhere without regard to "social niceties" is a sure-fire way to get the unconcerned quite concerned; whether that has any impact on the money-hungry ANTZ and gov'ts, I don't know.
Andria
And it's these type of responses {IMO} that make us appear we're somehow better than them. Entitlement & dodo bird don't go hand in hand & who are we to judge someone we dont even know?
It would seem those carrying the pitchforks & outrage are still talking ANTZ & legislation while still denying not everyone who vapes hangs out here on ECF meaning they wouldn't have a clue what any of this backlash is all about.
Here's the thing vaping isn't just under threat in the US it's under threat all over the world and whether some people choose to believe it or not how people vape in public is a factor in the legislation that is coming and the more some entitled and selfish people throw it in the faces of non smokers\vapers the more appetite the public has for that legislation. Yes in the US the big tobacco settlements mean states have a big financial reason to ban vaping but your enemy isn't the big tobacco companys though many think they are. Legislation is only passed to the level a politician feels the majority of the public will accept as it's the votes of the public that keep their noses in the trough no matter how much a politician is lobbied they use the public as a benchmark of how far they can go legislatively.
Our biggest single enemy is big pharmaceutical they have had a multi billion dollar NRT racket going for years and want it to continue, vaping is the single biggest threat to that easy cash cow and they will do everything they can to turn opinion against vaping politically and in the public mind. We really do not need the "anywhere, anytime I want" vaper loading up crates of ammunition to be fired at us and a growing number of vapers are rude, ignorant idiots with a sense of entitlement that borders on the juvenile. There is a big difference between being discrete and courteous with your vaping and being ashamed of vaping and if you see polite vaping as shame then perhaps you have other more deep rooted issues to resolve.
Vaping is a very large community with a small percentage of people actively engaged in vaping advocacy, but for those who are involved and active know very well appearance of vaping is an issue and a harder one to counter then the junk science or biased media reporting. Be considerate, be appropriate and instead of behaving inappropriately realise in our case discretion creates curiosity and that's the gateway to winning people over as people can only be curious for so long before having to satisfy it and as they come to you out of curiosity they are more prepared to listen and be open minded.
To alter an old saying "vape smarter, not more obnoxiously".
Our biggest single enemy is big pharmaceutical they have had a multi billion dollar NRT racket going for years and want it to continue, vaping is the single biggest threat to that easy cash cow and they will do everything they can to turn opinion against vaping politically and in the public mind. We really do not need the "anywhere, anytime I want" vaper loading up crates of ammunition to be fired at us and a growing number of vapers are rude, ignorant idiots with a sense of entitlement that borders on the juvenile. There is a big difference between being discrete and courteous with your vaping and being ashamed of vaping and if you see polite vaping as shame then perhaps you have other more deep rooted issues to resolve.
Vaping is a very large community with a small percentage of people actively engaged in vaping advocacy, but for those who are involved and active know very well appearance of vaping is an issue and a harder one to counter then the junk science or biased media reporting. Be considerate, be appropriate and instead of behaving inappropriately realise in our case discretion creates curiosity and that's the gateway to winning people over as people can only be curious for so long before having to satisfy it and as they come to you out of curiosity they are more prepared to listen and be open minded.
To alter an old saying "vape smarter, not more obnoxiously".
I vape everywhere, but I don't blow huge clouds when walking around the store. I have no problem with people seeing me vape, but I just hold it in for 20 seconds so that I don't exhale much vapor at all.
I don't see it as shame. More like self preservation. Nothing is going to placate our real enemies, but the 99% of citizens who don't vape might still be available to our cause. If keeping our heads down to avoid offending them would help us I would go for it. Having them on our side, or at least not disliking us, would make it a little harder for the corporations and their political lackeys to roll over us. But everyone's going to do what they decide to do.
Havent gotten to the most recent posts in the thread but i felt i should reply as i disagree with you here. In DC theres a simple law that anywhere you may not smoke cigarettes yiu also may not use an e-cig. This has nothing to do with big tobacco, and frankly more with hospitality/tourism/etc.
That is mainly because - If it looks like smoke then the smokers will want to smoke or should I say - people will think it is smoke.
the problem is not the cloud chaser's.
it never has been.
in any human activity there will be those that wont play by the rules.
so the knee jerk reaction is to ban the activity?
we do not need laws and regulations regulating the behavior of people
that are going to behave.
all that is required is to have businesses post their policies concerning
what or what not is allowed and be done with it.
one simple and easy to understand rule.vaping allowed but no obtrusive
clouds of vape. no vaping at all. vaping in certain areas only.
what ever it is,its all that's needed.
it doesn't mater how the public perceives us.
what maters is how we perceive ourselves in public.
if we tip toe around everywhere we go the public will
perceive us as doing something bad,nasty,deviant or illegal.
vape as if it was as normal as checking your watch or phone
for the time.
don't get caught up into worrying about things that rarely
are going to happen done by people regulations wont control.
we all must stop chastising people for behavior someone else
"might" find offensive. we do not know what they think.
we need to stop thinking for them.
working out well in Saint Paul regards.
mike
And it's these type of responses that enable the people with a sense of entitlement and the dodo birds to do whatever they want.
They don't have a clue what the backlash is all about because they don't visit ECF? Come on now, seriously? I think you meant to say they don't have any common sense..
Blowing clouds in a grocery store is a no-no and it does not take someone being a rocket scientist or someone visiting ECF to figure that out.. Some were raised differently than others I guess. I was raised to respect others and to respect their space. It's obvious that some people were not.
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