It's these kind of people that are going to ruin it for all of us...

[jseah]

Ask your politician acquaintances why states are dependent on Big tobacco settlement cash, and cig taxes.

Then ask them if every vapor cloud was invisible, and without smell would it matter?

It won't.

The "image" issue is just their excuse.
Be smarter. Don't buy into the propaganda.

The real issue is money and criminal politicians that are allowed to stay in office.
Come on people, just look! It's not hidden.

But it is the "image" issue that will sell their agenda to the public. When the politicians has to answer to the voters on why they voted, they're not going to say that they're doing it to save the state budget and ensure that the tobacco money keeps flowing. They will show that video of the cloud chasers and say this is what I'm protecting you from, and if the general public has come across cloud chasers in the past they will say "ah, yes". And the video works even better if it shows the cloud chasers as younger people (even if they are over 18), because it sells their argument that vaping is being marketed towards kids. The image that vaping is bad won't sell if they show a 50 or 60 year old tootle puffer who was able to quit smoking by vaping. The tootle puffer will look too much like them (the voters) whereas the young cloud chasers will just remind the voters of the obnoxious brat kids from their neighborhood that race down the street with their car stereos blaring and being loud well into the night while they're trying to sleep.

 

[skoony]

Could be.

Or it Could be that One Persons Experiences are Not Reflective of All People's Experiences. And what happens in one Part of a Big Country like the USA is Not Indicative of what happens in Another.

BTW - I noticed that you Didn't Reply to this Post.



That's OK. Because it Brings Up some Difficult Issues.

except the bar business is the bar business.
when serving alcohol one does not waffle.
you make the rules and you enforce them.
you follow the rules or leave.
this way every one knows the rules and they
are followed.this is how you build and maintain
your customer base.they now what the rules
are and they appreciate that you enforce them.
would he close the bar if someone insisted on
getting drunk and causing a scene every night,or would he kick em out?
mike

 

[Thespis]

But it is the "image" issue that will sell their agenda to the public. When the politicians has to answer to the voters on why they voted, they're not going to say that they're doing it to save the state budget and ensure that the tobacco money keeps flowing. They will show that video of the cloud chasers and say this is what I'm protecting you from, and if the general public has come across cloud chasers in the past they will say "ah, yes". And the video works even better if it shows the cloud chasers as younger people (even if they are over 18), because it sells their argument that vaping is being marketed towards kids. The image that vaping is bad won't sell if they show a 50 or 60 year old tootle puffer who was able to quit smoking by vaping. The tootle puffer will look too much like them (the voters) whereas the young cloud chasers will just remind the voters of the obnoxious brat kids from their neighborhood that race down the street with their car stereos blaring and being loud well into the night while they're trying to sleep.

To accomplish this, they don't need real cloud chasers. They just need images of cloud chasers. Those can easily be created if not found in the wild. It's not about reality, it's about theatre.

 

[jseah]

I sure can't argue with that. Vaping is pretty big where I live. I look for vapers. I'm not a Cloud Chaser or a Tootie Puffer....I guess I'm an equal opportunity offender, but I am a vaper. One would think if Cloud Chasers blowing clouds in public was such a common occurrence, I'd have seen it at least once. I haven't. I've seen a ton of Tootie Puffers openly vaping in stores or on sidewalks. Cigalike users and ego users....there's plenty of them around. I feel they've had zero impact on regulation or out right banning. I don't blame any kind of vaper for whats happening.....I blame the lack of free money coming in from tobacco taxes that we all use to fork over.

FWIW, I haven't come across any vapers out in the wild who absolutely insist that it is their god given right to blow clouds when they want, wherever they want. If anything what vapers that I have come across either are vaping inside of the vape store/lounge or they're stepping outside of the stores.

Yesterday I had to go into midtown Manhattan to teach a training class. While there during a work day, the streets were absolutely packed. Back when I was a smoker, I would smoke on the street and not think twice about it. Now that I am a vaper, I am well aware that I have a higher volume of vapor coming out of my mouth and nose on exhale then smoke, even though I am nowhere near a cloud chaser. Rather than exhaling directly upward and outward while walking down the street, I consciously try to exhale downward. This way any vapor I am exhaling will sink faster to the ground instead of hanging in the air for the people behind me to walk through.

 

[zoiDman]

except the bar business is the bar business.
when serving alcohol one does not waffle.
you make the rules and you enforce them.
you follow the rules or leave.
this way every one knows the rules and they
are followed.this is how you build and maintain
your customer base.they now what the rules
are and they appreciate that you enforce them.
would he close the bar if someone insisted on
getting drunk and causing a scene every night,or would he kick em out?
mike

The Funny Twist about the thing that Happened about that Owner is he Didn't want to Kick People Out for Vaping.

He Wanted to Allow Vaping. Be a Small Groups of Individuals Screwed it Up for Everyone.

 

[Bad Ninja]

But it is the "image" issue that will sell their agenda to the public. When the politicians has to answer to the voters on why they voted, they're not going to say that they're doing it to save the state budget and ensure that the tobacco money keeps flowing. They will show that video of the cloud chasers and say this is what I'm protecting you from, and if the general public has come across cloud chasers in the past they will say "ah, yes". And the video works even better if it shows the cloud chasers as younger people (even if they are over 18), because it sells their argument that vaping is being marketed towards kids. The image that vaping is bad won't sell if they show a 50 or 60 year old tootle puffer who was able to quit smoking by vaping. The tootle puffer will look too much like them (the voters) whereas the young cloud chasers will just remind the voters of the obnoxious brat kids from their neighborhood that race down the street with their car stereos blaring and being loud well into the night while they're trying to sleep.

That's just not what's happening.

Ironically, 100% of the ANti Vape propaganda features cig a likes and Egos.

Not a single cloud chaser in any anti vape ads.


I am NOT defending people making jerks out of themselves by acting inconsiderate of others.
Responsibility for ones own actions is a sign of adulthood.

I just can't waste time bashing others for a problem that is 100% based on finacial incompetence, and corruption.

Let's address the problem where it lies and stop arguing about cloud size.

 

[ENAUD]

Our enemies are not stupid, and I don't think they care one bit about clouds, our health, or the truth. Our sig line banners with money saved and smokes avoided tell the real tale. It's all about the money and controlling the marketplace. The moneys lost to their tax scheme is our real undoing.

 

[raqball]

The Funny Twist about the thing that Happened about that Owner is he Didn't want to Kick People Out for Vaping.

He Wanted to Allow Vaping. Be a Small Groups of Individuals Screwed it Up for Everyone.

Exact same scenario I described earlier with a friend of mine who owns a pub.. Big tobacco didn't cause him to not allow vaping inside nor did any politician.. It was vapers acting irresponsible and foolishly that caused it and nothing else..

As has been said many times before though, people will keep doing what they want, where they want and how they want. Nothing said in this thread will change their mind.

The self entitlement era (it's everywhere and for everything not just vaping) is in full swing and I really hope it comes to an end soon..

I'm off to ride my bike, you all have fun in here..

 

[zoiDman]

Exact same scenario I described earlier with a friend of mine who owns a pub.. Big tobacco didn't cause him to not allow vaping inside nor did any politician.. It was vapers acting irresponsible and foolishly that caused it and nothing else..

As has been said many times before though, people will keep doing what they want, where they want and how they want. Nothing said in this thread will change their mind.

The self entitlement era (it's everywhere and for everything not just vaping) is in full swing and I really hope it comes to an end soon..

It would be Naïve to think it hasn't happened all over the USA. In some places More than Others.

And that is why I Posted this...

So what happens when people do Not Honor the Owner's right?

What is His/Her options besides pushing for City/County/State Bans of Vaping where Smoking is Not Allowed?

 

[Asbestos4004]

FWIW, I haven't come across any vapers out in the wild who absolutely insist that it is their god given right to blow clouds when they want, wherever they want. If anything what vapers that I have come across either are vaping inside of the vape store/lounge or they're stepping outside of the stores.

Yesterday I had to go into midtown Manhattan to teach a training class. While there during a work day, the streets were absolutely packed. Back when I was a smoker, I would smoke on the street and not think twice about it. Now that I am a vaper, I am well aware that I have a higher volume of vapor coming out of my mouth and nose on exhale then smoke, even though I am nowhere near a cloud chaser. Rather than exhaling directly upward and outward while walking down the street, I consciously try to exhale downward. This way any vapor I am exhaling will sink faster to the ground instead of hanging in the air for the people behind me to walk through.

I'm pretty sure you represent about 99.5% of the people who vape. Thats pretty much what we all do. Yet, here we are again....pointing fingers at extremely isolated incidents.
As for the guy who came from the cigar world and wishes we vapers could be more like them....Seriously? I'm not a fan of cigar smoke but I was waiting for my truck to get an oil change/wash the other day. I stood outside the place to have a vape. A guy came out a few minutes later and lit a cigar. No, he didn't ask me if it was ok....nor did he ask the employee outside if it was ok. Did it bother me or the employee? Not at all. But it's silly to act like your precious cigar community doesn't consist of the same people that our disrespectful, renegade vaping community consists of. Have you ever said "That guy is going to ruin cigar smoking for everyone!"?

 

[AndriaD]

And the guy in my neighbourhood with the monster stereo in his car, which he always has on even if he's coming home at 2.00 in the morning.

That guy lives next door to us -- but my husband informed him that if he woke me from a sound sleep again -- even WITH my white-noise fan on -- I would be calling the police and filing a complaint about him. It seemed to work -- he hasn't started up his Monster Truck with coliseum sound system blasting at 200dB since then.

I'm aware that people living in subdivisions have to exercise extreme tolerance of their very-close-by neighbors -- that's why I have a white-noise fan -- but that tolerance does not extend to 200dB at 7am or 1am -- I may have no choice than to tolerate the Monster Truck itself (which sounds as if it has no muffler whatever), but I don't have to tolerate that kind of volume of his "music" (I use the term loosely).

Andria

 

[Bad Ninja]

Laws and store policy are apples and oranges.

You can use common sense and adult discussion to accommodate/modify store policy.
Throw in a bit of courtesy and everyone is happy.


Can't do that with corrupt politicians.

 

[AndriaD]

So what happens when people do Not Honor the Owner's right?

What is His/Her options besides pushing for City/County/State Bans of Vaping where Smoking is Not Allowed?

If an owner's ban is not respected, what makes you think a law will be? Laws, rules, and locked doors are only effective against the law-abiding -- but we all know there are plenty who don't give a rip about laws, rules, or locked doors.

You can't legislate against stupidity -- and the terminally stupid are EVERYWHERE -- just look at our gov't!

Andria

 

[Bad Ninja]

You can't legislate against stupidity -- and the terminally stupid are EVERYWHERE -- just look at our gov't!

Andria

I agree 100%.

Lol
But apparently they can legislate FOR stupidity!

 

[zoiDman]

If an owner's ban is not respected, what makes you think a law will be? Laws, rules, and locked doors are only effective against the law-abiding -- but we all know there are plenty who don't give a rip about laws, rules, or locked doors.

You can't legislate against stupidity -- and the terminally stupid are EVERYWHERE -- just look at our gov't!

Andria

Because there is One Thing that a Legal Ban has over the Wishes of an Owner. And that is the Ability to site someone for Violating a Code.

If you put up a Sign and it says "Please Don't Park in this Red Zone" or if there is a Vehicle Code against paring in a Red Zone, which do you think would prevent parking in a Red Zone better?

 

[skoony]

The Funny Twist about the thing that Happened about that Owner is he Didn't want to Kick People Out for Vaping.

He Wanted to Allow Vaping. Be a Small Groups of Individuals Screwed it Up for Everyone.

is he running a bar or kindergarden?
you get rid of the trouble makers.
you do not punish your customers.
they will leave too.
i say the story is bogus.
it doesn't make sense.
mike

 

[AndriaD]

Because there is One Thing that a Legal Ban has over the Wishes of an Owner. And that is the Ability to site someone for Violating a Code.

If you put up a Sign and it says "Please Don't Park in this Red Zone" or if there is a Vehicle Code against paring in a Red Zone, which do you think would prevent parking in a Red Zone better?

A car illegally parked is a lot easier to spot than a stealthy vaper. The reason why stealth vaping is even a thing is because it's POSSIBLE... As I stated already, I'd have stealth-smoked if I could have gotten away it, but the stink gives it away in a heartbeat -- not so, vaping. I vaped in the ER since they left me parked there for 9 hrs behind a closed door -- and no one had any idea.

I'm as disapproving of cloud chasers in indoor public spaces as anyone else... but stealth vapers aren't blowing huge clouds, they're blowing very little cloud at all -- and will continue to get away with it, regardless of laws, rules, and bans.

Andria

 

[skoony]

The Funny Twist about the thing that Happened about that Owner is he Didn't want to Kick People Out for Vaping.

He Wanted to Allow Vaping. Be a Small Groups of Individuals Screwed it Up for Everyone.

 

[skoony]

The Funny Twist about the thing that Happened about that Owner is he Didn't want to Kick People Out for Vaping.

He Wanted to Allow Vaping. Be a Small Groups of Individuals Screwed it Up for Everyone.

 

[zoiDman]

A car illegally parked is a lot easier to spot than a stealthy vaper. The reason why stealth vaping is even a thing is because it's POSSIBLE... As I stated already, I'd have stealth-smoked if I could have gotten away it, but the stink gives it away in a heartbeat -- not so, vaping. I vaped in the ER since they left me parked there for 9 hrs behind a closed door -- and no one had any idea.

I'm as disapproving of cloud chasers in indoor public spaces as anyone else... but stealth vapers aren't blowing huge clouds, they're blowing very little cloud at all -- and will continue to get away with it, regardless of laws, rules, and bans.

Andria

Not say'n that people Won't. And in the Immortal words of George Carlin... "When it comes to Driving, if a Cop didn't see it, I Didn't do it."

But the issue that is Pertinent is if a Store like the OP was in has a Sign that say's "No Vaping", and people are still doing what the OP witnesses in the Cereal Aisle, what options are left to the Store? Besides getting onboard a Vaping Ban piece of Legislation?

I would Love to live in a World where Owners could decide whether they Will or Will Not allow e-Cigarette use in their Enclosed Spaces. And that ALL Vapers would Respect this.

I just don't think that it is Viable after Reading what I have Read in This and All the Other Threads like this. There will Always be a Small Group of Individuals wyho will Screw it Up for the Vast Majority of those who Vape.