It's time to fight fire with fire

[eyerhere]

I can't seem to get as worked up by all this as everyone else. I am an American and I am gonna do what I want to do. Case in point
Stop alcohol FAIL
stop drug use FAIL
Stop fattening fast food FAIL
As soon as they make e ciggs ileagle I am going to sell them labled as room oderizers not for human consumption.
LOL PROBLEM SOLVED

 

[Myk]

And I do agree with you; my feeling that caution is needed RE: vaping is mainly because of what you said in the first paragraph -- "without the impact being known." I'm talking long-term impact, and considering that vaping is a fairly new phenomenon, there's no way the long-term impact can be known, until many more years go by. I do agree however that the need for caution should NOT result in blanket bans, which are just mercenary in nature; what it means, I think, is that those of us who quit smoking via vaping will actually be around for more years, so that the long-term impact *can* be known!

I really didn't mean to get into that rant about GMO, it's just a hot-button topic for me. I've read some sci-fi and other stories on this very subject -- what happens if you engineer a food-stuff that's completely impervious to any kind of depradation? You get a food-stuff that will not digest, that will in fact kill you because it's impervious even to biological metabolism in the body. It's a scary idea, yet these brainiac scientists don't seem to get that modifying food in this manner could have all sorts of horrible implications. Right now it appears that vaping is all or mostly harmless, but who knows how it will appear in 10, 20, 50 yrs? We can't know the future with any degree of precision, and it's impossible to see the logical consequences, that many "moves ahead."

And ScottP mentioned bees -- did you all realize that the pesticide which is wreaking havoc with the bees we need in order to keep HAVING crops is a *neonicotinoid* pesticide? What is it, some modern synthetic version of nicotine? I don't know for sure, but it sounds like it might be. Does that have any implications for our willing and intentional use of the original nicotine? I don't know that, either, but does anyone, really? Playing with the forces of nature just seems like playing with fire, IMHO. Yes, it can be done, but does that mean that it ALWAYS SHOULD BE? Before the full implications of doing so have even been studied, nevermind known? I know that some of the GMO foods have been created with the idea of eradicating famine, but there ARE other ways of doing that which don't involve "splitting the atom" of the foundation of life. They're looking for a shortcut, or a "scientific means" so that they can patent it and make many billions, trillions of dollars, while claiming to be 'working for the common good.' I find it disturbing on a great many fronts.

Andria

Honey bees. Honey bees that are not native to the US and are not even out of their hives when fruits are being pollinated in places with winter. We do have native pollinators, some of which are bees but are not as susceptible because of their solitary lives.
Yes neonicotinoid is synthetic nicotine. It requires less spraying than nicotine which makes it less damaging to the environment. I use a synthetic pyrethroid which I have to spray about once a month compared to pyrethrum which I'd have to spray every day.

I used to be militant organic and was fighting against GMO and chemicals even before GMO was in use. Then I figured out those pushing militant organic were lying just as much as everyone else. The truth is somewhere in the middle and you won't find it reading either side.

 

[Bramble]

[...]
"Breaking News: 3000 Years of Research Shows Adults Like Flavors Too!"
[...]

"Study: Gene for Overcontrolling Personality Syndrome Linked to Olfactory Deficiency"

 

[Uma]

The FDA is heartily trying to shut down Organic farmers, because they use natural fertilizer instead of store bought.
FDA Hatches Regs to Take Down Organic Farmers - YouTube. (David Knight)

Small Growers Worry New Rules Will Shut Down Farms | Fox Small Business Center

New FDA Rules Will Put Organic Farms Out Of Business | Off The Grid News

 

[EddardinWinter]

The FDA is heartily trying to shut down Organic farmers, because they use natural fertilizer instead of store bought.
FDA Hatches Regs to Take Down Organic Farmers - YouTube. (David Knight)

Small Growers Worry New Rules Will Shut Down Farms | Fox Small Business Center

New FDA Rules Will Put Organic Farms Out Of Business | Off The Grid News

The enemy of your enemy is your friend.



Roaring via Tapatalk...

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

You know what we think of the FDA in California? Same thing we think of the F Anything. No fear, no disrespect. We are the F.

New Yorkers and Texans think the same way. Fed? lol. We are the Fed. That's why the rest of the nation hates us so much, we can afford to buy the politicians, we are the economic engines and everyone else are the passengers. No, I do not see human beings this way, but if you watch House of Cards it seems that is the reality in Washington. Roll up your window, Mississippi. Here comes the all-encompassing vapor from the coasts. Too bad if you're into Vapor Prohibition, good luck with that. You're broke. Shut the hell up. Sad.

The farmers markets where I live in The Bay are absolutely fantastic. Just bursting with all kinds of produce, not bad prices either, some are very cheap. Free bites and free samples galore. And these markets are PACKED with people! Lots of certified organic stuff, and in Cali, "certified organic" means something. Del Monte and Monsanto or whatever are not selling giant mutated ears of corn or anything, at least not yet. Not utopia, unless you're really really wasted, many are, of course. But I am amazed. I can spend 5 or 10 bucks and have heavy bags on each arm, enough for nearly a week, nearly all year round. Now that kind of fresh food will tune you up. That's what everybody needs access to somehow. I am very lucky.

These farmers will fight back with pitchforks and torches out here if messed with too much or pushed too far by Big Bro, people are hip to a lot of that WalMart invasion crap, no way, not here, don't even try it. We won't have to fight, there are so many of us we just vote. Takes a while, what doesn't. But we'll get it right eventually.

Californians pass all kinds of crazy laws, we just pass them and laugh and everybody does what they want anyway pretty much. But it's not so bad, the people really do rule here to a large extent, or as much as they are able on a local level, and Doing Your Own Thing has always been a way of life, not a political action hobby. Hard to disagree with a Hippie, they are so agreeable. I could rag on this state like any other, or talk it up like any other, just saying it's not so bad and people are very liberal and tolerant and active around here, no contradiction. No minorities, either, because everyone looks different. "Crazy Liberal" sometimes but I like that better than the other end of the spectrum.

A country unto itself. Massive economy. Just massive, I see your Fasttech vapemail coming into San Francisco Bay, I swear, I see the Chinese cargo ships all the time, every day. Major Fasttech hub in SF. lol

 

[Robdob]

I think one of the most obvious comes from using the term "cigarette" describing what we don't smoke. There has got to be another name, maybe "vapor sticks", or "non-toxic smoking eradication devices". Something to remove the idea of smoking and cigarettes out of the vaping community and the publics eye.

 

[ScottP]

I think one of the most obvious comes from using the term "cigarette" describing what we don't smoke. There has got to be another name, maybe "vapor sticks", or "non-toxic smoking eradication devices". Something to remove the idea of smoking and cigarettes out of the vaping community and the publics eye.

That horse has been killed, beaten, buried, dug up and beaten some more. If Apple suddenly started calling their phones something else, the masses would still call them iPhones. It's a familiar term now that everyone can relate to. In fact MOST young people today now refer to ANY MP3 player as an iPod regardless of brand. Bottom line the word is out there and is not going to change.

That said, it wouldn't have mattered what we called it, as soon as someone found out people were blowing nicotine clouds the same thing would have resulted anyway. You have to remember that most people consider a nicotine cloud to be only slightly less dangerous than a mushroom cloud.

 

[Mousey]

'Muricans might be in luck, I think fox news is slowly turning out a positive spin on Vaping, This news piece was like a breath of fresh air

 

[Ken_A]

You know what we think of the FDA in California? Same thing we think of the F Anything. No fear, no disrespect. We are the F.

New Yorkers and Texans think the same way. Fed? lol. We are the Fed. That's why the rest of the nation hates us so much, we can afford to buy the politicians, we are the economic engines and everyone else are the passengers. No, I do not see human beings this way, but if you watch House of Cards it seems that is the reality in Washington. Roll up your window, Mississippi. Here comes the all-encompassing vapor from the coasts. Too bad if you're into Vapor Prohibition, good luck with that. You're broke. Shut the hell up. Sad.

... I am very lucky.

...
Californians pass all kinds of crazy laws, we just pass them and laugh and everybody does what they want anyway pretty much. ...

Hmm. Yeah. Thanks for caring about the REST of the country. The OTHER legislators see you pass laws and then use that as an example to pass them elsewhere.
Um... Not going to go any further with this one.

 

[Myk]

I think one of the most obvious comes from using the term "cigarette" describing what we don't smoke. There has got to be another name, maybe "vapor sticks", or "non-toxic smoking eradication devices". Something to remove the idea of smoking and cigarettes out of the vaping community and the publics eye.

And that is why CT (I think) is pushing a law through to ban Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS) and not ecigs?

 

[always9988]

'Muricans might be in luck, I think fox news is slowly turning out a positive spin on Vaping, This news piece was like a breath of fresh air

Awesome!!!

 

[LDS714]

I think one of the most obvious comes from using the term "cigarette" describing what we don't smoke. There has got to be another name, maybe "vapor sticks", or "non-toxic smoking eradication devices". Something to remove the idea of smoking and cigarettes out of the vaping community and the publics eye.

Personally, I suck on my Personal Electronic Nicotine Inhalation System all day.

 

[LDS714]

'Muricans might be in luck, I think fox news is slowly turning out a positive spin on Vaping, This news piece was like a breath of fresh air

Let's just hope that anti-Fox people don't become anti-vaping folks by default...

 

[Ken_A]

We'll. I'm an anti-fox person.
But I'm starting to change my mind, so it will probably even out!

 

[Caffeine7]

I say it's time to fight fire with heating coils

 

[DaveP]

It's been over 5 years since ecigs began to proliferate the market. You'd think by now that any really dangerous effects would have been uncovered.

Even the Surgeon General's latest report has nothing really bad to say outside of the fact that children might want to try ecigs. There's actually neutral and positive things in the report, as well as come things we know not to be true. The truth is that there hasn't been any really harmful discovery compared to burning tobacco.

If there's danger, we all want objective testing to tell us about it. We all know that current diagnostic testing has yet to find any danger in ecigs that is comparable to the known dangers of smoking. We know that science has analytical tools to break down all the components in vapor spectroscopically.

We also have 5 years of vaping under our belts and there's been no study that shows a trend toward resultant disease associated with nicotine, PG, VG, or the flavorings we use.

The report doesn’t conclude whether e-cigarettes are a healthy option to regular cigarettes, but says more study of these products are needed in order to weigh their risks and benefits. While they may contain less nicotine, some studies suggest that e-cigarette smokers inhale more deeply and therefore are exposed to higher levels of nicotine per puff than smokers of regular cigarettes. Others hint that because of e-cigs’ lower nicotine levels, smokers inhale less of the potentially harmful compound. And the studies on second-hand exposure showed that compared to regular cigarettes, e-cigs release nicotine but not other emissions such as carbon monoxide. So far, several states have banned e-cigarettes from non-smoking areas, but in coming months and years, more cities and states will likely turn to the Surgeon General and other public health authorities in deciding how to regulate e-cigarette use.

“Further research and attention to the consequences as well as regulatory measures will be necessary to fully address these questions,” the report authors write. They also recognize the urgent need for answers, since the popularity of e-cigarettes will only rise as continued regulation of traditional cigarettes increases. “The promotion of electronic cigarettes and other innovative tobacco products is much more likely to be beneficial in an environment where the appeal, accessibility, promotion, and use of cigarettes are being rapidly reduced,” they write.

Read more: E-Cigarettes Are a New Target for Surgeon General's Report on Tobacco | TIME.com E-Cigarettes Are a New Target for Surgeon General's Report on Tobacco | TIME.com

 

[Myk]

It's been over 5 years since ecigs began to proliferate the market. You'd think by now that any really dangerous effects would have been uncovered.

Even the Surgeon General's latest report has nothing really bad to say outside of the fact that children might want to try ecigs. There's actually neutral and positive things in the report, as well as come things we know not to be true. The truth is that there hasn't been any really harmful discovery compared to burning tobacco.

If there's danger, we all want objective testing to tell us about it. We all know that current diagnostic testing has yet to find any danger in ecigs that is comparable to the known dangers of smoking. We know that science has analytical tools to break down all the components in vapor spectroscopically.

We also have 5 years of vaping under our belts and there's been no study that shows a trend toward resultant disease associated with nicotine, PG, VG, or the flavorings we use.

Ecigs have been in the market for 8 years at least. I know they have been tested by everyone in that time. The reason the "experts" say "we just don't know" is because they do know and don't like the findings.
Every time they try to play up small amounts as something we point out how small the amounts are so nobody buys their lies like they did with SHS.
They're not getting away with lying so they're playing on people's fear of the unknown with "we just don't know".
It's time we start hitting them with, "Why don't the EXPERTS know after 8 years?".

 

[Jman8]

New headline: "Tobacco Controllers say 21st Century Science Is Not Able To Detect Contents of Nicotine Vapor"

In other news: "Neuroscientists determine that same part of human brain that engages in lying, cheating and stealing is also behind physiological desire to become an anti-tobacco zealot."

 

[DC2]

New headline: "Tobacco Controllers say 21st Century Science Is Not Able To Detect Contents of Nicotine Vapor"

.....