It's time to fight fire with fire

[Jay-dub]

I don't know why anyone would want to feed into a FOX vs. MSNBC dichotomy...

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Sounds a little preachy, but your points were well received.

Touche'! Well played, my friend, well played!

 

[Uma]

#vaping is safer than eating fish. (Mercury, radiation, etc)
#vaping is safer than eating! (Pesticides, Monsanto, ecoli, hormones, plastic, msg, petroleum dyes, foam products, melamine, arsenic, etc)
#vaping is safer than drinking fruit juices! (Same as above, plus vitamins stripped away with processing, Acetame sweeteners added, preservatives, Flouride in the water. Etc)
#Vaping safer than diet pills! (Nicotine e is a natural appetite suppressor, why eat a poisoned apple pie when you can vape it, neither are diet pills FDA approved)
#Vaping is safer than cold medicines! (PG is a natural germ killer, big Pharma uses rat poison in Tylenol & other products, etc)
#Vaping is safer than breathing city air! (Smog kills)
#Vaping is safer than road rage. (Chantix, cold turkey, stress, etc)

 

[Ken_A]

Sounds a little preachy, but your points were well received.

It's ok.
We understand what you were trying to say.
We know what the intent of the post was.
And We know the frustration of having two related activities under fire.

 

[Bramble]

On the lighter side, I have just started a thread related to terrible headlines/news that some of you may enjoy

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tions-worst-anti-vaping-news-article-day.html

 

[Myk]

I will never be convinced that cigarette butts are safe for the environment. They contaminate water and soil and kill wildlife. That is factual, not anything concocted by zealots. You can google this. Not everything negative about smoking or tobacco is an "Antz" thing.

People dumping ashtrays or butts out their car or anywhere else deserve to be fined because they are irresponsible slobs.

In any case I'm glad I'm not contributing to that issue anymore no matter who thinks that is a silly exaggerated thing, that's really all I have to say about it. It is yet another perfectly valid reason for someone who cares about these things to switch to e-cigs.

I never said they were good, it's garbage and we produce way too much garbage that doesn't break down. I just try to keep a little scientific rationality to my thinking.
As the article you posted said they don't break down easily so I doubt they contaminate anything. As I said nicotine breaks down quickly so while if you dump a bunch of fresh butts in a pond it may kill the fish I doubt if single butts tossed do anything to water, soil or wildlife. The same type of study could be rigged to show how dangerous e-liquid bottles are. If in the long process of them breaking down they release something like PCBs that would be the contamination but I didn't see any reference to anything like that, it seemed more like a rant against the evil tobacco.
Don't forget, nicotine is nature's insecticide that some plants use to protect themselves against attack.

Batteries are quite pollutive to both make and dispose/recycle. Then there's the liquid bottles. And nicotine extraction creates a lot of possible pollution if the used chemicals aren't turned into water (even so, would that be water you'd want to drink?).

A vote against #ecigs is a vote for #Crohn’s disease. Stop the #Ecig over-regulation!

I'm not sure how Crohn's fits in. Smoking is bad for Crohn's but doesn't cause it, nicotine is bad for Crohn's but doesn't cause it. Maybe as a smoking cessation device?
Same with some of the others, if ecigs are with nicotine they'd still be bad.

 

[ScottP]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Actually it doesn't. It leaves one person with one eye still in tact.

 

[Ken_A]

....

I'm not sure how Crohn's fits in. Smoking is bad for Crohn's but doesn't cause it, nicotine is bad for Crohn's but doesn't cause it. Maybe as a smoking cessation device?
Same with some of the others, if ecigs are with nicotine they'd still be bad.

I got the list of problems associated with smoking from one of the websites. If they can say it, we can too!!

 

[Uma]

I got the list of problems associated with smoking from one of the websites. If they can say it, we can too!!

I've heard it helps prevent colitis cancer. Restores neurological issues, including restoring damaged brain cells. Aides in preventing or treating Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ADHD, add, cognitive skills issues, plus it suppresses the appetite (which is a total bummer for big Pharma whose set up to sell diet pills), etc...
I'll have to look up the chron's disease... Too bad it doesn't cure cronyism so we could get the cronies out of our lives eh.

Okay! Here we go!
http://crohns.nutricia.co.uk/ulcerative_colitis/smoking-and-ulcerative-colitis
Crohns is usually found in non smokers, and they discovered that nicotine helps avoid it

 

[Uma]

Some more interesting news about the benefits of nicotine for tag lines

Metanews: could nicotine be beneficial?
The media blackouts unless it's sexy news.

Sexy nicotine's benefits
Researchers Investigate (Horrors!) Nicotine's Potential Benefits - NYTimes.com

Growing list of benefits of nicotine for neurological ness
Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today

Beneficial effects of nicotine. [Br J Addict. 1991] - PubMed - NCBI

Beneficial effects of nicotine and cigarette smoking: the real, the possible and the spurious

Boosts blood vessels, suppresses appetite,
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/nicotine-health-benefits.htm

 

[AndriaD]

I'm not sure how Crohn's fits in. Smoking is bad for Crohn's but doesn't cause it, nicotine is bad for Crohn's but doesn't cause it. Maybe as a smoking cessation device?
Same with some of the others, if ecigs are with nicotine they'd still be bad.

I'm not sure about Crohn's, but I can offer 1st-hand experiences with IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome). It's one of the "stress afflictions," not just worsened by stress, but believed by many doctors to actually be CAUSED by extreme stress. Cigarette smoking is a frequent way of coping with stress, which would suggest that nicotine plays some role in organizing brain chemistry to relieve stress.

Smoking cessation, without some form of NRT, typically causes extreme constipation, as nicotine stimulates peristalsis. Constipation is one of the ways in which IBS can manifest, or as a flip/flop between ........ and constipation. So, it would stand to reason that when an IBS sufferer is in the constipation phase, nicotine could make an excellent treatment, without necessarily disrupting the entire intestinal tract, as most laxatives and stool softeners will do to IBS sufferers; all it does is increase the natural wave-like motions.

A caveat to this is that the dosage must be strictly monitored, as it takes very little interference with the intestines of IBS sufferers to cause a great deal of distress. If you're vaping and suddenly get ........, even with no other symptoms, it *could* indicate a slight overdose. This must be very closely monitored if the vaper is already an IBS sufferer, as I am.

As for Crohn's, I understood it to be some symptom of gluten intolerance, but given how nicotine stimulates the intestines, I suppose nicotine might be somewhat problematic for extreme sufferers of Crohn's.

Just my ...
Andria

 

[Myk]

I've heard it helps prevent colitis cancer. Restores neurological issues, including restoring damaged brain cells. Aides in preventing or treating Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ADHD, add, cognitive skills issues, plus it suppresses the appetite (which is a total bummer for big Pharma whose set up to sell diet pills), etc...
I'll have to look up the chron's disease... Too bad it doesn't cure cronyism so we could get the cronies out of our lives eh.

Okay! Here we go!
crohns.org.uk
Crohns is usually found in non smokers, and they discovered that nicotine helps avoid it

This is a bit confusing so sorry if I lose you.

Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis are both Inflammatory Bowel Diseases but somewhat different.

Smoking makes Crohn's worse. Crohn's is discovered more in present smokers than Ulcerative Colitis is.
Smoking is protective for Ulcerative Colitis. Ulcerative Colitis is discovered more in ex-smokers than Crohn's Disease is.

Smoking or not smoking increases the likelihood that that either one will be bad enough to get diagnosed.
Smoke with Crohn's you're likely to have a flare and get diagnosed.
Smoke with Ulcerative Colitis and you're likely to not get bad enough to get diagnosed. Quit smoking with Ulcerative Colitis and you're likely to have a flare.

Smoking does not cause Crohn's and it does not cause Ulcerative Colitis (like with some kind of physical change that makes it so you can't quit).

Nicotine itself does nothing for Ulcerative Colitis (unlike smoking). Nicotine plus 5-ASA increases their effectiveness, or plus steroids decreases chance of rebound.

As far as nicotine and Crohn's I've seen claims it's bad but haven't seen any actual statistics or tests. There's no reason to run tests since smoking doesn't help it. The only likely reason to study it would be to see if Crohn's patients should get off NRT when quitting smoking.

 

[Jman8]

Welcome to Web MD

 

[Ken_A]

This is a bit confusing so sorry if I lose you.

...

Smoking makes Crohn's worse. Crohn's is discovered more in present smokers than Ulcerative Colitis is.
...

Smoking does not cause Crohn's and it does not cause Ulcerative Colitis (like with some kind of physical change that makes it so you can't quit).
...
As far as nicotine and Crohn's I've seen claims it's bad but haven't seen any actual statistics or tests. There's no reason to run tests since smoking doesn't help it. The only likely reason to study it would be to see if Crohn's patients should get off NRT when quitting smoking.

One of the ladies in a thread I frequent says that she has Crohn's and since vaping has gone from a half-dozen pills to "as needed". She "blames" vaping for that.

 

[always9988]

Quit smoking initially when I started vaping. Huge colitis flare. The GI doctor actually wanted/ wants me to continue smoking 3-5 cigarettes a day on top of the vaping. Wrote it on a prescription paper and everything. This was confusing to me because everything and everyone is throwing "quit smoking" in your face constantly. Realized through my own research it does make sense, so I'm still constantly torn between "I don't really wanna keep smoking that was the whole point of quitting!" to a drastic cut in symptoms when I do pick up the cigarettes again

 

[always9988]

Should add this guy is well informed on vaping, and has 30 years of experience in his field

 

[Myk]

Quit smoking initially when I started vaping. Huge colitis flare. The GI doctor actually wanted/ wants me to continue smoking 3-5 cigarettes a day on top of the vaping. Wrote it on a prescription paper and everything. This was confusing to me because everything and everyone is throwing "quit smoking" in your face constantly. Realized through my own research it does make sense, so I'm still constantly torn between "I don't really wanna keep smoking that was the whole point of quitting!" to a drastic cut in symptoms when I do pick up the cigarettes again

I don't think I could do a few cigarettes. Even now I think a few would quickly turn into a PAD.

However my gastro is tied in with the ANTZ Mayo. In spite of knowing that nicotine/mesalamine works she would like me to get off nicotine. At first she told me it might help and it was after I saw a pamphlet bragging about the Mayo link that she changed.
I'd rather have your doctor.

ANTZ really do want people to die/suffer rather than see them smoke or even use nicotine.

 

[always9988]

I don't think I could do a few cigarettes. Even now I think a few would quickly turn into a PAD.

However my gastro is tied in with the ANTZ Mayo. In spite of knowing that nicotine/mesalamine works she would like me to get off nicotine. At first she told me it might help and it was after I saw a pamphlet bragging about the Mayo link that she changed.
I'd rather have your doctor.

ANTZ really do want people to die/suffer rather than see them smoke or even use nicotine.

With the vape set up I don't find myself wanting any more than one or two a day really. Some days I don't have any, other days I get closer to the five. It does seem like a slippery slope and like I said, I still get the feeling that I want to quit and leave it all behind. It's quite a dilemma lol

 

[Myk]

With the vape set up I don't find myself wanting any more than one or two a day really. Some days I don't have any, other days I get closer to the five. It does seem like a slippery slope and like I said, I still get the feeling that I want to quit and leave it all behind. It's quite a dilemma lol

I want off nicotine (that's how I got diagnosed) so I also have a dilemma with gastro wanting me off it. But I don't want to go on drugs with cancer risks.

I think I'll threaten my gastro with trying "low does smoking" because if she wants me to quit nicotine she must not have my best interests at heart so I may as well rely on Dr Google

 

[always9988]

Definitely get a second opinion if you can! A good relationship with your doctor is soooo important