John Stossel - Let Them Vape

[CMD-Ky]

You didn't offend me or anyone else. You have a right to your opinion, as do I. As @AXIOM_1 said, this is a forum where we can debate different ideas in a peaceful manner. Don't bow out on my account.

Ideally, I agree with you that the interview should have had more interviews, with perhaps different viewpoints to keep things "fair". However, it was a short report. Time restraints and all of that.

As long as those viewpoints don't end up with two or three partisans all talking over each other. I just finished watching such a segment, the first that I have watched in months and months. I know why I quit watching, it will be months and months before I return to that foolishness.

 

[AXIOM_1]

But it would be unfortunate if we seek what we want to hear rather than well informed sources.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention one little fact... I am usually not the type of person to "seek what I want to hear".... When it concerns vaping, I quit vaping quite a few months ago..... I still hang at this forum because I have a few friends here that I like to stay in communication with, plus I like to welcome new arrivals.... If vaping is ever found to be extremely harmful then I don't have to worry about it.

 

[Baditude]

As long as those viewpoints don't end up with two or three partisans all talking over each other. I just finished watching such a segment, the first that I have watched in months and months. I know why I quit watching, it will be months and months before I return to that foolishness.

My news feed on Facebook is set up for me to keep current on vaping trends. I've been seeing less anti-vaping propaganda and seeing more fact-based scientific reporting that is pro-vaping lately. That's a good thing.

Here's a good one from last month.



Here's a bad one from this month. It turns out that this was a poorly orchestrated parody by Fox News. The doctor is actually a vaper who was instructed to take the role of anti-vaping for the "debate". And the idiot vaper is just an idiot.

 

[smoked25years]

The idea of fairness is important but my criticism is only about the quality of the source. He should have gone to the sources of the articles that she is reading. She is just a non scientist writing "popular science" based on a superficial understanding of what she reads. To me she is a child--lol. I am old and have some first hand experience on the more technical stuff (in a field unrelated to smoking/vaping).

 

[United States]

John Stossel wants to be Hiraldo Rivera when he grows up.

Now regarding the lady interviewed:
It does not take a college degree to become an expert at something. Matter of fact, many college educated people don't know the difference between a string and a rope but think their education makes them expert at flying a kite.
Look at all the threads here where people post that their doctor (and other educated staff) tell them vaping is worse than smoking.

Smart folks do research, study, and most importantly listen with an open mind.

Last week in my job I had a so-called expert who is deemed dual certified in the field, tell me my bridge project was in violation of this and that. With each comment I retorted a counter to their statement that research had taught me. Each retort led to another "you're still wrong"... My response was "show me in the book where it says I'm wrong". Crickets chirping until "well you're also in violation of xxx". Again my retort was "show me".

Simply put, the person could not counter my response with anything beyond "you just like to argue". A couple of days later they responded in writing of the violations. Within 15 minutes I had responded and cited the regulations and highlighted the areas showing I was correct.

Basically the other person is educated in that field, yet some tech school drop out was able to provide more correct information in the time it takes to smoke a cigarette proving that all those years of education were a waste of time by that other "expert".

Good on John Stossel for trying.

 

[AXIOM_1]

My news feed on Facebook is set up for me to keep current on vaping trends. I've been seeing less anti-vaping propaganda and seeing more fact-based scientific reporting that is pro-vaping lately. That's a good thing.

Here's a good one from last month.



Here's a bad one from this month.

Oh No! Not Tommy Smokes again

 

[smoked25years]

Not every doctor or medical researcher is an expert on vaping. And I would encourage people to read articles for themselves and check any references in those articles. That doesn't change my argument that good reporting should use the best sources they can find. In this case, the best sources would have been the authors of the articles she is reading. In the case of Dr Kissy Face and Vape God, there is no way to salvage it--lol.

 

[Uncle Willie]

That was the one with the generators right? It costs money to haul stuff around, to store it, to keep it ready for a disaster. I can see whining about gas prices tripling or something, but a generator? No. Sell it for what you can.

The generators were just a part of the Stossel opinion history .. a guy hears folks are without power in New Orleans, he goes to a Lowes and buys all the generators they have, around 20, I think .. drives them 500-600 miles and sells them at twice what he paid .. people were fine with that .. and, so am I .. the dude got arrested for price gouging during a National Emergency .. that's where Stossel stepped in ..

He's done the same as it relates to bottled water, etc .. I'm all for market rules pricing, which is Stossel's point .. however, there should be a degree of Humanity when it comes to the essential things of life, such as food and water .. even being the Capitalist that I am, I'd not watch another person suffer because they could not pay an inflated price for something essential that I was attempting to make a buck off of ..

 

[r77r7r]

My news feed on Facebook is set up for me to keep current on vaping trends. I've been seeing less anti-vaping propaganda and seeing more fact-based scientific reporting that is pro-vaping lately. That's a good thing.

Here's a good one from last month.



Here's a bad one from this month. It turns out that this was a poorly orchestrated parody by Fox News. The doctor is actually a vaper who was instructed to take the role of anti-vaping for the "debate". And the idiot vaper is just an idiot.

Someone here said a few years ago that once the media gets done raking us through the coals they'll then finally start reporting the Other side of the story. It's taken quite awhile now though.

 

[Vape Magoo]

While I have always enjoyed Stossel, and I lean a bit toward the same Libertarian concepts he embraces, he is the same guy that called price gouging good as it related to Katrina and other natural disasters .. among other things ..

“Democrats want to micromanage your work life, your speech. Republicans want to micromanage other countries and your bedroom. Libertarians want them to .... out of both,” Stossel says

The essential idea of Libertarianism is People should be allowed to do anything that is peaceful .. while that may sound great in concept, reality is a bit different ..

He made a good point on the price gouging. Renting a truck, fronting for generators and driving hundreds (was it 600) of miles should of been a good win/win situation. Generator cost, rental cost, gas cost, insurance cost, labor cost (that deserves to be paid for every hour he was doing it and away from home). Only 4 days at $50 an hour is $4,800. The risk. Nailing him for gouging was a lose/lose/lose and lose move. I'm sure the guy learned his lesson and won't make that mistake again. Too bad for anyone that could really use a generator next time.

 

[VapourFlavour]

More people need to see this

 

[BillW50]

Do you really think reading some articles means she fully understands them and is an authority on the subject???

What did she say that was incorrect? I had found nothing she said that disagrees with scientific evidence.

 

[smacuser]

 

[smoked25years]

What did she say that was incorrect? I had found nothing she said that disagrees with scientific evidence.

Bill, I know better than to debate with you. It was mostly an opinion piece with very little if any science... that I recall. I don't have any interest in rewatching it and critiquing it. What would have been great is if she took the place of the guy and interviewed the authors she was reading.

 

[DPLongo22]

Bill, I know better than to debate with you. It was mostly an opinion piece with very little if any science... that I recall. I don't have any interest in rewatching it and critiquing it. What would have been great is if she took the place of the guy and interviewed the authors she was reading.

There are so many science based vids out there that I'm cool with the approach Stossel took. Short, sweet, and designed to make people think. I think it was effective.

Average Joe isn't going to sit through a Dr. Farsalinos presentation, and common sense isn't much rocket-science, so Dr. F. would be overkill (for that particularly purpose) anyway.

Two thumbs da up from me.

 

[Eskie]

While we're on this subject, what makes Gottleib an authority on the topic? Is he a doctor? He's merely a pawn who was selected by govenment bureaucrats to run an agency.

FDA misrepresents CDC NYTS data (that found vaping has sharply reduced teen cigarette smoking since 2011) to falsely claim youth vaping is an epidemic​

Just to keep this fair and balanced, Gottlieb in fact is a real doctor. Got his medical degree and training in internal medicine at Mt Sinai Medical School and was on the teaching faculty of NYU School of Medicine. As to interpreting scientific articles and data, he was on the board of editors for both the British Medical Journal (well respected with than one positive e cigarette article published) and JAMA (another pretty big medical journal). He did stuff like push through approvals on new single pill combo treatments for HIV when an undersecretary at the FDA back under Bush.

He's also been the guy to push for speedy generic drug application approvals especially for drugs that under the current nutty system keep generic drugs like epi pens way too expensive and most importantly tackled BT out of left field by moving to require lower nicotine levels to be implemented for combustible tobacco. He's also the guy that has been the savior of the vaping industry by pushing the deeming regs back for 4 years to allow for more scientific data to be gathered to improve the approval process for ENDS under the ridiculously vague PMTA requirements that existed when he took office.

He's also the guy who under intense lobbying and pressure to save the children from flavorings who found a middle ground to create a more secure age verification system in convenience stores and left vape shops alone, and left online sales on the market with age verification requirements that responsible vendors have already been performing.

Bashing the guy who's pretty much pulled vaping back from regulatory extinction doesn't seem terribly helpful from a pro vaping position. When he came in vapers all gave a sigh of relief and an extra long draw to celebrate someone who understood the idea of harm reduction as a viable strategy. No one at the FDA before him considered that at all.

So if he's a pawn, I'm not sure who's playing the board with him, as BT isn't coming out on the win column with what he has proposed with nicotine restrictions on combustible tobacco, and BP isn't a winner under harm reduction strategies. NRT isn't making BP a ton of money now that it's OTC generic, and Chantix and Wellbutrin sales for smoking cessation aren't making anyone rich either. And if harm reduction does work, no money for BP in treating smoking related illnesses either.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Personally, I find Stossel repugnant due to his opinions on a number of issues. But that doesn’t bar the man from being right from time to time.

 

[Katdarling]

There are so many science-based vids out there that I'm cool with the approach Stossel took. Short, sweet, and designed to make people think. I think it was effective.

Average Joe isn't going to sit through a Dr. Farsalinos presentation, and common sense isn't much rocket-science, so Dr. F. would be overkill (for that particular purpose) anyway.

Two thumbs da up from me.

And two more from moi. This was/is definitely produces and presented for Mr. and Ms. Average Joe and Josephina.

Altho nothing novel, I found it well done. I do believe the non-vapers who listen to the "vaping is more dangerous than smoking!!!!" type peeps will do well to give this a listen.

I sent it to a small group of friends. Should they possibly want to open their minds..... who knows.


Are we as a vape community, really debating it?

 

[DPLongo22]

Are we as a vape community, really debating it?

We kind of beat the watts vs. volts thing into glue, so yeah.

But we needed SOMETHING...

"Just get a Provari."

 

[BillW50]

what makes Gottleib an authority on the topic?

Just to keep this fair and balanced... So if he's a pawn, I'm not sure who's playing the board with him, as BT isn't coming out on the win column with what he has proposed with nicotine restrictions on combustible tobacco, and BP isn't a winner under harm reduction strategies.

Okay we heard from fair and balanced, now let's hear from the logical. All Gottleib is doing is making it hard for teens to excess electronic cigarettes. Frankly teens don't care because they have older friends who buy them easy to get cigarettes anyway. And more teens are smoking than vaping from my questioning teens anyway. Gottleib isn't going to stop at teen vaping. Next he is going after adult vapers. His goal clearly is to get both teens and adults back on cigarettes. Otherwise nothing is making any sense whatsoever.