Joyetech ego-c Twist ...

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ChrispyCritter

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I use Riva batt's and stardusts or boge 3.0 ohms, I never had tried VV so forgive the ignorance. For now I think with sr cart's 3.4 to 3.6 is my honey pot. I will see after I get the twist, cause I dont wanna...yes I do wanna buy a lavatube. But I wanna try the Twist first. Or do I? grrrrr

I didn't think I would like a LT that much and I only bought one because the price is right and I figured it would be nice to be able to increase the volts on those days that an eGo couldn't satisfy. Now I like my LT a lot even plan on a second one and I still like my eGo's..I use both everyday and even a couple auto 510 mega batteries..twist or LT you probably will like having an adjustment.
 

Frick

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Why oh why do they have to keep the same dated design, with the same clear plastic switch that looks ultra-cheap and makes it look like every other eGo/Riva/whatever battery?

Make it a little more expensive and use some quality materials on the switch and you'd have me sold. Make it in brushed-stainless finish with an actual metal switch and tiny LED battery-level indicator lights and it'd fill a niche in a lot of vapers lives. I'm in the market for a smaller device for summer shorts-wearing season when I don't want to carry a larger mod around, and this would be a pretty perfect voltage range -- but they just have to cling to the same ugly design.
 

ChrispyCritter

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Why oh why do they have to keep the same dated design, with the same clear plastic switch that looks ultra-cheap and makes it look like every other eGo/Riva/whatever battery?

Make it a little more expensive and use some quality materials on the switch and you'd have me sold. Make it in brushed-stainless finish with an actual metal switch and tiny LED battery-level indicator lights and it'd fill a niche in a lot of vapers lives. I'm in the market for a smaller device for summer shorts-wearing season when I don't want to carry a larger mod around, and this would be a pretty perfect voltage range -- but they just have to cling to the same ugly design.

But then it gets more expensive to produce..they have a working design that they have the tooling to make. At one point there was an eGo with a metal button that looked the same as the newer clear one (Black LR eGo Battery)..I think the finish of the tube itself would be an easy change though as it's just a matter of materials. I don't really care much what it looks like though as long as it works ok and fits nicely in my pocket for easy carrying...
 

John D in CT

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I'm a vapor that like the 3.4-3.7 range, so a VV Ego-C Twist is gunna be perfect. So for me any yammering about how 4+ volts is not a concern, although it is educational. To be honest I do not understand the love affair of the high voltage/watts, but I will say I have never tried it,so dont shoot me yet. All I know on a 3.0 ohm carto and 3.7 to 4.2 tastes like somethings on fire and my lungs tell me to **** off. Now I may not know wtf i'm doing with ego batt's and sr carto's, but I do respect the high voltage vapors, I just dont understand it. Maybe a little education is in order.

I can understand how it might seem odd to you, or even absurd, to hear someone saying that it's desirable to have a device that will go as high as 6 volts, when you are presently content with one that runs at lower voltage, like the 3.7 to 4.2 you mentioned. It reminds me of an intentionally ironic saying my dear departed Mother used to use: "You're not happy, you just think you are". lol

I can't hook up my taste buds to your brain, but if I could, you would know what I'm experiencing at higher voltages and higher resistances. And also why variable voltage/variable wattage is the only way to go to optimize a vape.

At constant voltage and (obviously) constant resistance, there's just no way, other than pure good fortune, to get the optimum amount of wattage to the coil or coils of an atomizer. I've been able to experience the difference for myself not by virtue of having yet operated a VV device (although by law, I might technically own one, having just purchased a Smoktech VMax that's on its way) - but by what I've experienced from using different combinations of resistances and number of coils on the three PV's that I do have first-hand experience with; some Joyetech 3.4v batteries, a Smoktech e-Power 14650 (3.7V), and the 5-volt Smoktech Woo [aka the "M80" lol]. The latter is currently (no pun intended) putting out about 5.6 volts on two AW IMR 16340 batteries.

When I got the Woo about a month ago, I experienced for the first time how my favorite juice - Geoff's Blend from Tasty Vapor - improved dramatically in flavor when the coils warmed it more than the other devices could do. Right now I'm going back and forth between 3.7 and 5.6 volts with Geoff's Blend in two different Smoktech DCT tanks; one with a brand-new Smoktech 1.7 ohm single coil XL carto in it, the other with a brand new Smoktech 1.5 ohm dual coil carto. At 3.7 volts on the single (8 watts), not bad. Not bad at all. At 5.6 volts on the same tank with a 1.5 dual coil (10.4 watts), - wow, very big difference. Much more flavor; so much better. And of course I had to try the single 1.7 coil at 5.6 volts (18 watts). Wow, nuclear fission never tasted so good. Yeah, that's a bit high, and I would never vape that high on a single coil for any reason whatsoever, but it didn't even taste burned, and it was still better than at 8 watts. Much more flavor, although the crackling and popping was a bit of a distraction.

Here's what I think is a very interesting thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...go-c-get-such-bad-rap-site-5.html#post5830201 where a lot of pertinent [to this thread] things are discussed; Joyetech eGo-C tanks and batteries, the Twist, and a lot of back-and-forth about vaping at higher wattages than 3.4V generally allows. One of the participants was saying that his vape at lower wattages was "perfect", and I allowed as how it might be "even more perfect" with a little more wattage, and that he really couldn't be sure that wasn't the case, since he had never tried it. It was all really pretty civil, and I think he at least agreed that it was a possibility that he might like a few extra watts, and was probably going to see for himself by getting a Twist when they're finally available.

One participant posted this:

"I don't believe Xw-Yw is the best for everyone. Taste is subjective".

And this was my reply:

"There is something inherently flawed with that statement [wish now I hadn't said it quite that way], at least as it pertains to this discussion, even though it is certainly true that taste is subjective. The flaw is this; you have never experienced the input required to formulate a subjective opinion on the taste of different juices at higher voltages[/wattages]. Your implication is that it is solely subjectivity that prompts me to say that flavor is "better" (in most cases) at higher coil wattages than a 3.4V Joyetech battery can provide. That is a little like saying that it's strictly subjective, with little or no relationship to the [likely] subjective opinions of others experiencing the same sensory input, that I prefer to be hit gently on the head with a hammer rather than harder. Just as I think that most people would say that being hit on the head with a hammer gently feels better than being hit hard, I also think that the vast majority of people would say that their vaping experience is better when their juice is being warmed by the coils of an atomizer to the point that the full flavor of the juice is most optimally released into the vape. Then, if you don't like that flavor, try a different one. At least you have experienced that flavor as closely as possible to how its creator probably intended it to taste".

That's how I see it; as you said, you haven't tried it, and I have a very strong feeling that when you do, you'll be of the opinion that what you thought was a perfectly fine vape just got a whole lot finer. Those little flavor molecules need to be properly excited to be fully released into the vapor; not too much, not to little. That's where variable voltage comes in. Dial in the voltage/wattage just so; right where a particular juice on a device of a particular resistance wants to be.

In another thread, Chrispy gave a link to a fantastic option for people who want to see what VV is (mostly) all about for small dollars. Speaking of rebranding, it's Vapor Alley's version of a Lavatube, for $59 including two batteries, a charger, and a couple of attys. http://www.vaporalley.com/VA-Variable-Volt-Mod_p_195.html?AffId=10 That's about 8-10 days of smoking stinkies, depending on where you live. I can't really think of a compelling reason not to at least try it out. I really do think you'll be very surprised at the improvement in your vape. Very pleasantly surprised. And it wouldn't take you much more time to order it, pick it up at the PO, charge the batteries, and fire it up as it would to write a post telling me that I'm full of crap.

Someone in that thread hit with with a comparison to "Tim the Tool Man", but this is not about power for its own sake. This is about optimizing the vape, and 3.4 - 3.7 volts, especially constant, just does not do that IMO opinion, which has some hands-on experience to back it up.

See what others in this forum think about what wattages are good:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/289202-highest-wattage-used-ecf-member.html

Or check out PBusardo's recommendations for volts at various resistances:

Taste Your Juice | Can I Taste Your Juice? (Click on "Volts vs. Ohms" under "Knowledge Base").

Neither he nor I have any no axes to grind, or any ulterior motives. I just think that I share his interest in seeing that everyone gets the best vape going that they possibly can. That is my entire point in spending all this time writing this, and participating in this forum.

So that's it; vape it like you stole it, and peace out. :)
 
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ChrispyCritter

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I can understand how it might seem odd to you, or even absurd, to hear someone saying that it's desirable to have a device that will go as high as 6 volts...

IDK would you vape on something that makes a tank cap so hot you couldn't touch it long? At around 5v with a 2.5ohm CE2 in my chrome metal capped tank when I was running some tests and the end cap near the coil got so hot I couldn't hold onto it long. Also much over 4.4v with these my MadVapes juice and it makes the flavor taste burnt even if I direct dripped on the coil to the point it's flooded. I guess it could depend on juice and the cartomizer though..in any case I would worry I was melting things at higher voltages and inhaling fumes..the only way I wouldn't worry is if I could keep it cooler...
 

John D in CT

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IDK would you vape on something that makes a tank cap so hot you couldn't touch it long? At around 5v with a 2.5ohm CE2 in my chrome metal capped tank when I was running some tests and the end cap near the coil got so hot I couldn't hold onto it long. Also much over 4.4v with these my MadVapes juice and it makes the flavor taste burnt even if I direct dripped on the coil to the point it's flooded. I guess it could depend on juice and the cartomizer though..in any case I would worry I was melting things at higher voltages and inhaling fumes..the only way I wouldn't worry is if I could keep it cooler...

Chrispy, that's 10 watts.

And are you seriously beginning a response to my last post with "IDK"? Come on, man. Really. I put a lot of thought and effort into that post, and a lot of research. I would have liked to see it get a little more consideration than that.

And I think I've heard a sufficiency about burning plastic and inhaling fumes, in this and other threads. Time to get real.

A word about high voltages; 6 volts on a 3.0 single coil carto is 12 watts. That's not going to burn squat, unless the carto is run dry. Inside a properly functioning tank, no way. Just ... no ... way.

Did you read the info I linked to on PBusardo's website? Volts vs. Ohms?

PBusrado (not me): "You can use these values as a general guide for selecting the resistance levels of cartos/attys at applied voltages".

3.7V: 1.5-3.2 Ohms
5V: 2.0-3.2 Ohms
6V: 2.5-4.5 Ohms
7.4V: 3-5 Ohms

6 volts at 2.5 ohms is 14.4 watts. At 4.5 ohms it's 8 watts. Your tank-scorching 10 watts is right in his sweet spot; toward the lower end, in fact. You can email him and tell him that his advice is bad, but from what I know of him, you will not like his answer. It will be very civil, but very direct.

And did you read the thread about the wattages that many of the experienced members here vape at? How about you post in that thread that 10 watts is making your tank too hot to touch, and see what they say.

Add to all this the apparent (to me) fact that you get a better vape at a given wattage when it's achieved by higher volts/higher resistance, and it all boils down to what I think is also an apparent fact; that you're confusing the hell out of everyone, and should probably re-think what you're talking about, because "IDK" is about the only part of your last post I agree with.
 
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ChrispyCritter

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Do you seriously need more vapor than the pic below? That's my LT set at 4.2v..sorry for the quality it's from my webcam and it's low light setting that I captured with VLC..it's hard to see on camera but just puffing on it for a few mins and my room is more cloudy than if I smoked a couple cigs.

Even at 4.2v after a couple mins of puffing the cap gets hot and it's not running dry. You have also take into account the coil is about where the cap is. I know from experance with 2.5 atomizers that I use a drip on demand with and on an eGo the stainless tube get really hot after a couple mins.

Anyways I hadn't read your whole post when I replied so I just replied to part of what I read..I think there are a few people here who overdo it and I think at high voltages they could be inhaling fumes of things melting from their cartomizers. Heck even at lower voltages I see things melted inside cartomizers when I've taken them apart.

I suggest you take apart some after vaping on them at higher voltages especially if you use poly-filled ones like a lot of the people who vape at higher volts. I think VV is nice but also it's a good idea to use it in moderation at higher volts or don't even push it that far. On the vaping chart (below my pic) 8w is close to the highest that is recommended..I mean over 8w is in the zone where it could melt the solder (probably not enough for it to completely melt but enough where you could be inhaling fumes)..then there are rubber seals in these things..not to mention it's not a good idea to heat VG too high.


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John D in CT

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Sorry, but I think I'm going to have to try to get Phil Busardo himself to participate in this thread, to give you the old "Marshall McLuhan" treatment. Have you seen "Annie Hall"? Great movie.

Annie Hall - YouTube

And as I think I said earlier in this thread, I don't think much of that chart, and I think it's had a bit too much influence on you. Have you studied PBusardo's recommendations? Do you disagree with them, and think that they will lead to burning poly-fill, and sizzling tanks? Have you emailed him about it yet, so he can retract what he said as a public service? Or posted in that ECF thread I linked to?

Vapor clouds are a little too unscientific for me, and I don't think your assessment of vaping wattages is helpful for those trying to get the best vape they can with the equipment they have, or should possibly consider getting.

Let's not turn this into a pissing contest, so how about we keep our back-and-forth to an absolute minimum until we can get some informed, outside opinions on this.

***

And sorry, but I just re-read this part: "I mean over 8w is in the zone where it could melt the solder (probably not enough for it to completely melt but enough where you could be inhaling fumes)", and I just have to add: No .... freaking .... way. Unless by "over 8 watts" you mean 50-500 watts.

"The solders most commonly used for hand soldering in electronics are the 60/40 type and the 63/37 type. The 63/37 ratio, known as eutectic solder has practically no plastic range, and melts almost instantly at 183°C (361°F)". In other words, it doesn't budge until it reaches very close to its melting point. No melting, no fumes.

http://www.circuitrework.com/guides/7-1-1.shtml

And I have to believe that a coil would self-destruct long before it could reach that kind of temperature.

You are using a tank with the atomizer at the top, so you are experiencing warming that I wouldn't even be aware of inside my DCT tanks. But even at that, I think you're putting far too much emphasis on the amount of heat that's being generated.

"NASA's original hot touch temperature limits were based on human testing with heated aluminum plates. The data showed that pain onset occurred at an aluminum plate temperature of 45°C (113°F)".

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100020960_2010020520.pdf

What you consider "very hot" is less than 1/3 of the melting point of electronical solder. I really don't think that 8-14 watts is going to create solder fumes.
 
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ChrispyCritter

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No the chart didn't really influence me I found the 3.7-4.2v range I use by flavor of most of my juices..heck one juice I run at 3.3-3.5v and it's perfect..on occasion I'll hit 4.4v..some days the humidity or pressure are just not right for vaping..sometimes it's works better at low voltages sometimes higher..but anything over 4.4v is burnt with the CE2's and juice I use..I do blast it up to 5v to get the gunk off the coils sometimes though but I don't inhale that and I only do that so I don't have to rip apart my carto and burn off/clean it.

Yes I've seen Annie hall I'm 43 yrs old lol..probably been over 20 years since I have seen it though..in fact I've seen all of his movies..my favorite of his movies used to be the sleeper when I was younger. He can have his opinion I don't need to email him and I can have mine. He does do through reviews and I have watched at least 10 of his videos all the way through.

If people want to vape at those watts that's there right I'm just stating what I think about it. Neither one of us have done a scientific study on what vaping at high watts could do. I also said in my one reply it could depend on the cartomizer and juice.

I'm not trying to have a "pissing contest" at all just saying what I think..I do solder on these things and create my own coils and have taken apart dozens of cartomizers since last summer. I do believe you could vape at a higher watt but you would have to supply a lot of juice to keep the coil cool and really wouldn't that really make it vape more like what I'm getting if you have to supply enough juice to keep it cool?

I think to supply enough to keep it cool enough you basically would have to circulate the juice. What I really think is some people are trying to get the real smoking feel but this is not smoking and they are probably going too high..anyways it's probably better than smoking but how much?...
 

John D in CT

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He can have his opinion I don't need to email him and I can have mine....

some people are trying to get the real smoking feel but this is not smoking and they are probably going too high..anyways it's probably better than smoking but how much?...

I hope you aren't implying that somehow your opinion and his about vaping wattages are equally authoritative, because I think a compelling argument could be made that they are not.

And I really don't know quite what to say about your insinuation that some people are getting kicks from inhaling burning electonic components in an attempt to relive the glory days of smoking analogs.

Now I'm gonna take the rest of the night off before I get myself into trouble.

Peace.
 

ChrispyCritter

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I hope you aren't implying that somehow your opinion and his about vaping wattages are equally authoritative, because I think a compelling argument could be made that they are not.

And I really don't know quite what to say about your insinuation that some people are getting kicks from inhaling burning electonic components in an attempt to relive the glory days of smoking analogs.

Now I'm gonna take the rest of the night off before I get myself into trouble.

Peace.

LOL..I don't think you will get in trouble..besides relax I am..People overdo things all the time..I don't think they are intentionally doing this and some of them might lower the voltages a bit if they took apart a few cartomizers some won't care..I probably should have stopped posting myself an hour ago or more and went to bed.

I don't think I know everything either but I'm also nowhere near of average inelegance in fact I understood college level math in middle school (not saying this makes me right I have been wrong before and not afraid to admit it when proven)..My writing skills are a bit lacking though..I have improved tons with writing since I started posting online in 2007 and chatting a couple years before that. Before I got my 1st computer in 2004 I hadn't written anything since the mid 80's and then I was forced to with a tutor (although my reading and comprehension was great then)...
 
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John D in ct Since you're sure said:
clone, or re-branded version, of the Joyetech eGo-Twist within 2 (a couple) of months, and that it will be priced under $20. I say no. So, 30 ml of the juice of the winner's choice?

DID CRISPY ACCEpt? Read thru several posts and didn't conclude if it's "game on"
I cant wait to see what happens here, did crispy accept!? Suggestion: make a new thread 2 months from today with the data so we can all find it quickly!

Thanks!!
 

wv2win

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Based on polls going back over two years, a higher percentage of vapers on this and other vaping sites, showed that a majority preferred vaping in the 4.5 volt - 6.0 volt range or 8.0 watts and higher. Statements that suggest that vaping above 4.2 volts will "burn the eliquid" are just plain incorrect or the mark of someone who doesn't know how to use a PV properly. There is nothing wrong with preferring cold vaper produced at lower voltages but it's silly at best to state that is what the majority of vapers prefer. Here is one poll that that shows that 58% of the respondents preferred vaping at 8.0 watts or higher:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/151932-where-your-sweet-spot.html

Here is another poll on preferred voltage levels used. Unfortunately, they made one category 3.8 volts - 4.9 volts. I would have preferred a category of 4.5 volts - 5.0 volts. But it is not unreasonable to cut the 3.8 volts - 4.9 volt category in half and predict that half of those in this category will prefer vaping above 4.5 volts and half will prefer vaping below 4.5 volts. When you do that, the poll demonstrates that 53% of respondents preferred vaping at 4.5 volts and higher.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/199310-whats-your-voltage-preference.html
 
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ChrispyCritter

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Based on polls going back over two years, a higher percentage of vapers on this and other vaping sites, showed that a majority preferred vaping in the 4.5 volt - 5.0 volt range or 8.0 watts and higher. Statements that suggest that vaping above 4.2 volts will "burn the eliquid" are just plain incorrect or the mark of someone who doesn't know how to use a PV properly. There is nothing wrong with preferring cold vaper produced at lower voltages but it's silly at best to state that is what the majority of vapers prefer. Here is one poll that that shows that 58% of the respondents preferred vaping at 8.0 watts or higher:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/151932-where-your-sweet-spot.html

Here is another poll on preferred voltage levels used. Unfortunately, they made one category 3.8 volts - 4.9 volts. I would have preferred a category of 4.5 volts - 5.0 volts. But it is not unreasonable to cut the 3.8 volts - 4.9 volt category in half and predict that half of those in this category will prefer vaping above 4.5 volts and half will prefer vaping below 4.5 volts. When you do that, the poll demonstrates that 53% of respondents preferred vaping at 4.5 volts and higher.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/199310-whats-your-voltage-preference.html

Oh yeah I can rip a computer,car,game system apart and put them back together..I can take apart these cartomizers and rebuild them but I can't figure out how to use a PV with an IQ in the high gifted range. I'm the kind of person who knows how to do things especially with mechanical things...

Your polls doesn't go into how safe it is to use higher voltages..then the 1st poll 15 people choose 6w or less (25.86%) more than any other one choice..BTW 60.33% choose 6w-9w..I said much above 4.2v with a 2.5ohm CE2 (or what I meant) or the atomizers I build myself that are in the range of about 2.5-3ohms..I'm also referring to single coils more.

I understand if you use a dual coil it can take more to drive it..but you know what I have seen melted things in 1.5ohm DC cartos that were used on an eGo..if you want to use a mass produced in China carto/atty's with poly-fill at high voltage enjoy...
 
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ChrispyCritter

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DID CRISPY ACCEpt? Read thru several posts and didn't conclude if it's "game on"
I cant wait to see what happens here, did crispy accept!? Suggestion: make a new thread 2 months from today with the data so we can all find it quickly!

Thanks!!

No I'm not going to make a bet involving e liquid on a forum against someone I don't know..I rarely bet on things..I'm here giving my opinion on things not to make bets.
 

iuseaspork

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As far as melting solder goes, I have dry burned many a CE2 in my day. The coil is soldered to the lead wires and even though the resistance wires get red hot, the solder does not melt. That being said, I don't like using high wattage or dual coils. The $30 price tag sounds reasonable for what it is, and if it lasts a year I would be happy with it. Some applications may require more than this, but as others have said most would at least be happy.
 

John D in CT

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Chrispy; look, you're a fine guy, that's obvious. But you continue to advance what I consider to be an alarmist position about applying as little as 9 or 10 watts to a coil. A typical nightlight puts out about 6. You have spoken of feeding liquid to a coil keep it cool as if it were a nuclear reactor. A coil's job is to get warm enough to properly vaporize an e-juice, and talk of trying to keep it cool frankly makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I think that if vapers using the wattages I've been talking about have been inhaling harmful amounts of toxic fumes created by the incineration of of atomizer and cartomizer materials that we would have heard something about it by now, and I think that remains a product of your imagination, coupled with a misinterpretation of the little scorch marks I've seen in the pictures that you have posted of polyfill after one of your carto autopsies.

To anyone who has had the misfortune to have read this entire thread; please just take the time, and spend the little bit of money it takes, to get yourself a variable voltage device, and see what difference it makes in your enjoyment of vaping. Remember Goldilocks? Same deal. Just as she was able to optimize her chair and bed hardness/softness, and her porridge temperature, you will be able to optimize the warmth of your coil or coils until you get a vape that's "just right".

For $29, you can get a very good idea of what VV can do for your vape by getting the Joyetech Twist when it comes out. For $59, you can get a Lavatube with batteries and charger http://www.vaporalley.com/VA-Variable-Volt-Mod_p_195.html?AffId=10 that will let you see what VV at higher (than 4.8) voltage and higher resistance adds to the experience. For the ultimate in performance, you can get a ProVari V2, or a device that I think will be at least as good, the Smoktech VMax, although the latter uses stacked batteries and shouldn't be used unless you fully understand all of the implications involved in their use. It is not presently available in a configuration that complies with the ECF EMSS standards. not ECF-compliant.

Try variable voltage (or a variable wattage APV like the Darwin), and I think that you will live happily ever after.
 
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