Joyetech Evic VT 60 Watt

[jefx]

Would anyone who has bought an Evic VT recommend it for someone looking to get into temp control mods? For the price, the mod and tank seems like a good deal.

Oops, I meant to quote this post in my previous reply.

 

[tchavei]

As a first temp control mod, the eVic VT is a great choice based on price and features. However, as a first regulated device, it may be a bit overwhelming (but that is probably true for any TC device).

I agree with the others..... skip the Ego One Mega.... it's a Mega joke.

Ditto. I only got the tank because on this side of the pond, they only sell the full kit.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[hashtag]

I concur. As a first mod, it may overwhelm someone though. Too many things to keep right.

I agree, I ordered my sister a Subox last week because I thought this would be too much to take in. She likes a cloudier draw so she wasn't a good candidate for a traditional beginner setup but stepping up to a device like this almost requires a vape training course. The subox is nice in that regard, fits a beginner but packs enough for the more experienced to enjoy as well. My eVic is quickly becoming my go-to device but if I had started with it I don't think it would have worked out for me, I had to evolve my vaping over a few months to really understand it all and I still learn a lot every day.

 

[Carnage9270]

I don't think beginning vapers should ever pick up a TC mod as their first mod...period. TC isn't at a point that should be consumed by the masses. Most of the people with these devices stuck in their faces don't even realize how deadly they are at extremely low resistances. TC pushes batteries extremely hard, without knowledge of ohms law and how destructive these batteries can be if you don't respect them...a beginner can be in for a world of hurt. Beginning TC vaper is a lot different than a beginning vaper.

 

[USMCotaku]

I don't think beginning vapers should ever pick up a TC mod as their first mod...period. TC isn't at a point that should be consumed by the masses. Most of the people with these devices stuck in their faces don't even realize how deadly they are at extremely low resistances. TC pushes batteries extremely hard, without knowledge of ohms law and how destructive these batteries can be if you don't respect them...a beginner can be in for a world of hurt. Beginning TC vaper is a lot different than a beginning vaper.

There is the saving grace of the fact that all tc mods are regulated, therefore they all have built in safety features....a mech in the hands of a beginner vaper can be far more dangerous imo

 

[Carnage9270]

It's not the TC mod that is dangerous. It's the guy that picked up a mech that is in a box and the beginning vaper doesn't even think twice before setting that .05 coil on it. They need to fully understand the ohms law thing and how it applies to that magic tank resting on their pretty mod.

 

[TheBloke]

Not at all really. There is just .04 ohms of resistance happening between the chip and the 510 connection. Whether that be longer wires to the battery or the style of 510 connector/solder point. Honestly, it really isn't weird no matter what your mind makes of it. Now if you had .04 resistance difference between two different Evic VT's you might have something to gripe about (one has a higher resistance value from same manufacturer). Different mods, different wiring, different 510 connector, different resistances.

Regarding @tchavei 's high resistance reading (or the DNA40's low reading):

With TC reading resistances is very important, vastly more so than with Kanthal. It's vital because the temperature calculations performed by the chip have Base Resistance as a multiplicative factor. Inaccuracies in resistance reading thus have a compounding effect on the accuracy of the TC measurements.

Here's a quick example, all calculations done with this Temperature Coefficient of Resistance calculator using a linear TCR of 0.006 for Ni200.

• Mod is set to limit to 450°F (232°C)
• Ni200 coil measuring 0.10Ω (just the coil)
  • Reads on ModX 0.11Ω (+ 0.01Ω Static Resistance in the atomizer/510s)
  • Reads on ModY 0.15Ω (+ 0.01Ω SR + 0.04Ω too-high reading of the chip/mod)
• Coil is vaped, and temperature increases from 20°C to 232°C (450°F)
  • At 232°C / 450°F, the coil's resistance will rise from 0.10Ω to 0.2272Ω.
• ModX reads this as 0.2372Ω
  • ModX performs its TC calculation based on a resistance rise of 0.11Ω -> 0.2372Ω
• ModY reads this as 0.2672Ω
  • ModY performs its TC calculation based on a resistance rise of 0.15Ω -> 0.2672Ω
• ModX believes the coil at 232°C (450°F) is actually at 212°C (413°F)
  • ModX reads the temperature 20°C / 37°F too low - in practice this means ModX will heat the coil to perhaps 470°F instead of 450°F.
  • The correct setting to achieve 450°F on this mod + this build on this atomizer is perhaps 430°F (an exact figure can be calculated)
    • In fact in this case the correct setting is not specific to the mod because we are assuming the mod is 100% accurate in its reading - it's the atomizer's +0.01Ω SR that requires the minor offset from desired temp.
• ModY believes the coil at 232°C (450°F) is actually at 151°C (302°F)
  • ModY reads the temperature 81°C / 138°F too low - in practice this means ModX will limit temperature to perhaps ~ 600°F instead of 450°F.
  • The correct setting to achieve 450°F on this mod + this build on this atomizer is perhaps 300°F (an exact figure can be calculated)
    • Here it's the mod's +0.04Ω mis-reading that greatly modifies the required offset

Now in Tony's case I believe we don't know which is right - comparing two mods together and getting a discrepancy doesn't tell us which is right; indeed, both may be wrong.

I very much doubt it's as bad as the ModY in my example, just based on the fact that Tony hasn't mentioned getting burnt hits or having to turn his temperature way down! And of course that he's vaping Titanium and such offsets are much more damaging to Ni200 accuracy than Titanium accuracy, which has both a higher base resistance such that a given offset is a lower %, and a lower TCR such that any given 0.01Ω in resistance has less impact on the calculation.

He might also be unintentionally compensating for it somewhat, perhaps by setting 400°F because that's a standard figure and not realising he's actually getting nearer 500°F, because unless he keeps vaping on an empty tank/dry wick, it still won't burn. And quite possibly he doesn't actually have a 0.04Ω discrepancy overall - perhaps his DNA 40 reads a bit too low and the VT a bit too high.

But in general it is important to note that the base resistance reading of the coil is very important. Resistance reading needs to be as accurate as possible to do accurate TC. That's not to say that most or even many existing TC mods are super accurate - that's why there's so much variation in target TC temperatures, with some people setting a given atty to 380°F, others 450°F, and some people even using 500+°F for Ni200 coil heads.

But a mod that always reads 0.04Ω too high is not a great thing. I have the opposite problem with my SXK VF clone which always displays too low. Fortunately that mod has a TCR adjustment mode which I can use to compensate for the too-low reading. Mods that don't have that feature require temperature offsets - something we've all been doing automatically without necessarily knowing why.

(PS. The above quick example is just meant to be indicative, not accurate to this case: we don't know the TCR the VT actually uses, and the TCR of Ni200 appears to vary even with different types of Ni200 wire (I have found that mine is particularly low, causing all my TC mods to over-heat the wire) - another source of TC inaccuracy in general use. Also, Ni200's temperature resistivity response is a curve, not a straight line - we know the DNA 40 accounts for this, but don't know if new mods like the VT do. Though Titanium's is basically linear so that doesn't apply for Ti vaping, which I assume Tony is doing exclusively.)

 

[Carnage9270]

But really it's about allowing a beginner to pick up coils that make batteries go boom. Keep them in the Kanthal 1 ohm range for a while first.

 

[Carnage9270]

Regarding @tchavei 's high resistance reading (or the DNA40's low reading):

With TC reading resistances is very important, vastly more so than with Kanthal. It's vital because the temperature calculations performed by the chip have Base Resistance as a multiplicative factor. Inaccuracies in resistance reading thus have a compounding effect on the accuracy of the TC measurements.

Here's a quick example, all calculations done with this Temperature Coefficient of Resistance calculator using a linear TCR of 0.006 for Ni200.

• Mod is set to limit to 450°F (232°C)
• Ni200 coil measuring 0.10Ω (just the coil)
  • Reads on ModX 0.11Ω (+ 0.01Ω Static Resistance in the atomizer/510s)
  • Reads on ModY 0.15Ω (+ 0.01Ω SR + 0.04Ω too-high reading of the chip/mod)
• Coil is vaped, and temperature increases from 20°C to 232°C (450°F)
  • At 232°C / 450°F, the coil's resistance will rise from 0.10Ω to 0.2272Ω.
• ModX reads this as 0.2372Ω
  • ModX performs its TC calculation based on a resistance rise of 0.11Ω -> 0.2372Ω
• ModY reads this as 0.2672Ω
  • ModY performs its TC calculation based on a resistance rise of 0.14Ω -> 0.2672Ω
• ModX believes the coil at 232°C (450°F) is actually at 212°C (413°F)
  • ModX reads the temperature 20°C / 37°F too low - in practice this means ModX will heat the coil to perhaps 470°F instead of 450°F.
  • The correct setting to achieve 450°F on this mod + this build on this atomizer is perhaps 430°F (an exact figure can be calculated)
    • In fact in this case the correct setting is not specific to the mod because we are assuming the mod is 100% accurate in its reading - it's the atomizer's +0.01Ω SR that requires the minor offset from desired temp.
• ModY believes the coil at 232°C (450°F) is actually at 171°C (340°F)
  • ModY reads the temperature 61°C / 110°F too low - in practice this means ModX will limit temperature to perhaps ~ 550°F instead of 450°F.
  • The correct setting to achieve 450°F on this mod + this build on this atomizer is perhaps 340°F (an exact figure can be calculated)
    • Here it's the mod's +0.04Ω mis-reading that greatly modifies the required offset

Now in Tony's case I believe we don't know which is right - comparing two mods together and getting a discrepancy doesn't tell us which is right; indeed, both may be wrong.

I very much doubt it's as bad as the ModY in my example, just based on the fact that Tony hasn't mentioned getting burnt hits or having to turn his temperature way down! He might be unintentionally compensating for it, perhaps by setting 400°F because that's a standard figure and not realising he's actually getting over 500°F, because unless he keeps vaping on an empty tank/dry wick, it still won't burn. And quite possibly he doesn't actually have a 0.04Ω discrepancy overall - perhaps his DNA 40 reads a bit too low and the VT a bit too high.

But in general it is important to note that the base resistance reading of the coil is very important. Resistance reading needs to be as accurate as possible to do accurate TC. That's not to say that most or even many existing TC mods are super accurate - that's why there's so much variation in target TC temperatures, with some people setting a given atty to 380°F, others 450°F, and some people even using 500+°F for Ni200 coil heads.

But a mod that always reads 0.04Ω too high is not a great thing. I have the opposite problem with my SXK VF clone which always displays too low. Fortunately that mod has a TCR adjustment mode which I can use to compensate for the too-low reading. Mods that don't have that feature require temperature offsets - something we've all been doing automatically without necessarily knowing why.

(PS. The above quick example is just meant to be indicative, not accurate to this case: we don't know the TCR the VT actually uses, and the TCR of Ni200 appears to vary even with different types of Ni200 wire (I have found that mine is particularly low, causing all my TC mods to over-heat the wire) - another source of TC inaccuracy in general use. Also, Ni200's temperature resistivity response is a curve, not a straight line - we know the DNA 40 accounts for this, but don't know if new mods like the VT do.)

I agree with all of that. But truly it isn't a problem at all if it's consistently .04 above a different mod. You are just altering your temperature to compensate for it. Now placing that coil back and forth on the two mods and expecting the same results is foolish. It's not going to happen. Different wire specifications can cause fluctuations at much higher levels. Remember, there is no "standard" to temperature control. All these devices read and vape differently, so making a comparison between them with resistance readings is not going to give you the results your mind thinks it should.

 

[tchavei]

Regarding @tchavei 's high resistance reading (or the DNA40's low reading):

With TC reading resistances is very important, vastly more so than with Kanthal. It's vital because the temperature calculations performed by the chip have Base Resistance as a multiplicative factor. Inaccuracies in resistance reading thus have a compounding effect on the accuracy of the TC measurements.

Here's a quick example, all calculations done with this Temperature Coefficient of Resistance calculator using a linear TCR of 0.006 for Ni200.

• Mod is set to limit to 450°F (232°C)
• Ni200 coil measuring 0.10Ω (just the coil)
  • Reads on ModX 0.11Ω (+ 0.01Ω Static Resistance in the atomizer/510s)
  • Reads on ModY 0.15Ω (+ 0.01Ω SR + 0.04Ω too-high reading of the chip/mod)
• Coil is vaped, and temperature increases from 20°C to 232°C (450°F)
  • At 232°C / 450°F, the coil's resistance will rise from 0.10Ω to 0.2272Ω.
• ModX reads this as 0.2372Ω
  • ModX performs its TC calculation based on a resistance rise of 0.11Ω -> 0.2372Ω
• ModY reads this as 0.2672Ω
  • ModY performs its TC calculation based on a resistance rise of 0.14Ω -> 0.2672Ω
• ModX believes the coil at 232°C (450°F) is actually at 212°C (413°F)
  • ModX reads the temperature 20°C / 37°F too low - in practice this means ModX will heat the coil to perhaps 470°F instead of 450°F.
  • The correct setting to achieve 450°F on this mod + this build on this atomizer is perhaps 430°F (an exact figure can be calculated)
    • In fact in this case the correct setting is not specific to the mod because we are assuming the mod is 100% accurate in its reading - it's the atomizer's +0.01Ω SR that requires the minor offset from desired temp.
• ModY believes the coil at 232°C (450°F) is actually at 171°C (340°F)
  • ModY reads the temperature 61°C / 110°F too low - in practice this means ModX will limit temperature to perhaps ~ 550°F instead of 450°F.
  • The correct setting to achieve 450°F on this mod + this build on this atomizer is perhaps 340°F (an exact figure can be calculated)
    • Here it's the mod's +0.04Ω mis-reading that greatly modifies the required offset

Now in Tony's case I believe we don't know which is right - comparing two mods together and getting a discrepancy doesn't tell us which is right; indeed, both may be wrong.

I very much doubt it's as bad as the ModY in my example, just based on the fact that Tony hasn't mentioned getting burnt hits or having to turn his temperature way down! And of course that he's vaping Titanium and such offsets are much more damaging to Ni200 accuracy than Titanium accuracy, which has both a higher base resistance such that a given offset is a lower %, and a lower TCR such that any given 0.01Ω in resistance has less impact on the calculation.

He might also be unintentionally compensating for it somewhat, perhaps by setting 400°F because that's a standard figure and not realising he's actually getting nearer 500°F, because unless he keeps vaping on an empty tank/dry wick, it still won't burn. And quite possibly he doesn't actually have a 0.04Ω discrepancy overall - perhaps his DNA 40 reads a bit too low and the VT a bit too high.

But in general it is important to note that the base resistance reading of the coil is very important. Resistance reading needs to be as accurate as possible to do accurate TC. That's not to say that most or even many existing TC mods are super accurate - that's why there's so much variation in target TC temperatures, with some people setting a given atty to 380°F, others 450°F, and some people even using 500+°F for Ni200 coil heads.

But a mod that always reads 0.04Ω too high is not a great thing. I have the opposite problem with my SXK VF clone which always displays too low. Fortunately that mod has a TCR adjustment mode which I can use to compensate for the too-low reading. Mods that don't have that feature require temperature offsets - something we've all been doing automatically without necessarily knowing why.

(PS. The above quick example is just meant to be indicative, not accurate to this case: we don't know the TCR the VT actually uses, and the TCR of Ni200 appears to vary even with different types of Ni200 wire (I have found that mine is particularly low, causing all my TC mods to over-heat the wire) - another source of TC inaccuracy in general use. Also, Ni200's temperature resistivity response is a curve, not a straight line - we know the DNA 40 accounts for this, but don't know if new mods like the VT do. Though Titanium's is basically linear so that doesn't apply for Ti vaping, which I assume Tony is doing exclusively.)

Thx for your always extensive replies

Regarding practical experience. I tested both with the same atty and at the settings I'm using none will scorch or mark my wick in any way even Virgin dry rayon so my temperatures are within reason. On the VT I vape at 230/240C

On the dna (using Ti) I always vape at 185C unless it's a 50/50 juice where I use 180C.

You might be right. The correct resistance might be half way between both.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[USMCotaku]

But really it's about allowing a beginner to pick up coils that make batteries go boom. Keep them in the Kanthal 1 ohm range for a while first.

These mods won't let them use a coil that will make their battery go boom

 

[USMCotaku]

I would rather see a beginner on a TC device then on a mech any day
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

 

[RichJr]

You can always use the device in wattage mode. I rather like the mega tank, though a little loud it hits pretty well.

 

[TheBloke]

I agree with all of that. But truly it isn't a problem at all if it's consistently .04 above a different mod. You are just altering your temperature to compensate for it. Now placing that coil back and forth on the two mods and expecting the same results is foolish. It's not going to happen. Different wire specifications can cause fluctuations at much higher levels. Remember, there is no "standard" to temperature control. All these devices read and vape differently, so making a comparison between them with resistance readings is not going to give you the results your mind thinks it should.

It is a problem, just a problem that can be dealt with - that's quite different.

In fact comparing two accurate mods does give reproducible results - as I've verified with external temperature testing. There are many variables, not least the wire itself and differing levels of sophistication in each mod's implementation - for example whether it maps the curve of Ni200 versus using a static TCR figure.

But the fact that the problem is challenging and there are many variables should not, I think, lead us to overlook and accept inaccuracies. A mod that reads 0.04 too high can never be an accurate TC mod. A very good TC mod should be accurate to one-thousandths, 0.001Ω - as the Dicodes mods claim to be (Evolv don't publish their accuracy but I suspect it's 0.001, at least in the new DNA 200.) That said, accuracy to 0.01Ω is acceptable. An offset of 0.04Ω is not.

That's not to say for a moment that the VT does have that problem generally - I'll do some accurate testing of it when I get mine. And as you say, owners can easily compensate for it - once they know. But I do not think we should be nearly so accepting of major inaccuracies, not least because it will not encourage the manufacturers to resolve them. And one can, and I do, compare between my mods and find the results repeatable in all but a few cases - such as my always-too-low SXK. I deal with that issue, but I also hope it will be fixed; I've been in extensive communication with SXK to achieve just that.

Besides which, we few who discuss and share information on forums are in the minority. The average consumer won't even think to compare resistance readings, nor know the significance if they do. You say a TC mod should not be a user's first mod: even if that's true, the average consumer has a right to expect one mod to perform at least in the ballpark of another. If he has learnt that 400 - 450°F is a suitable temp range, he should not have to expect one mod to burn at that level.

TC vaping is certainly not an exact science yet, but that's all the more reason to be intolerant of inaccuracies that are easily resolved.

(And again I will emphasise the above is theoretical and in principle - I am not saying the VT does have such a general inaccuracy. Just that if it does, it should not be accepted as 'one of those things, deal with it.' )

 

[TheBloke]

Thx for your always extensive replies

Regarding practical experience. I tested both with the same atty and at the settings I'm using none will scorch or mark my wick in any way even Virgin dry rayon so my temperatures are within reason. On the VT I vape at 230/240C

On the dna (using Ti) I always vape at 185C unless it's a 50/50 juice where I use 180C.

You might be right. The correct resistance might be half way between both.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Wow Ok, 230-240°C is very high! That's the exact opposite of what I would expect. Even if it's only reading a little too high I'd expect burnt hits at such a high setting. If it was reading 0.02Ω too high then 240°C might be as high as 260°C in practice - I haven't run the numbers for Titanium yet.

Maybe then the DNA is reading -0.04Ω and the VT is spot on

Edit: sorry I'm confusing myself, hang on..

 

[Carnage9270]

Imagine this...
New vapor picks himself up the Evic VT and he happily vapes away in TC bliss. He walks into a store and picks himself up a mech mod cause he'd really like to have something that will fit in his pocket at work. At work he digs into his pocket and throws on his Mega tank, walks outside and does serious damage to himself cause no one told him the Evic tank is the closest thing to the word 'bomb" a mech can come to.

You're absolutely right though, a mech and a TC...no bueno to a beginning vaper.

 

[USMCotaku]

Notice the real danger in that scenario...... The mech
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

 

[Carnage9270]

Notice the real danger in that scenario...... The mech
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

I agree, but if the beginner didn't have the .05 coil from the TC, he wouldn't be in that predicament either

 

[Sean Mack]

I agree, but if the beginner didn't have the .05 coil from the TC, he wouldn't be in that predicament either

and if he could read his face wouldn't be burnt lol

 

[Carnage9270]

It is a problem, just a problem that can be dealt with - that's quite different.

In fact comparing two accurate mods does give reproducible results - as I've verified with external temperature testing. There are many variables, not least the wire itself and differing levels of sophistication in each mod's implementation - for example whether it maps the curve of Ni200 versus using a static TCR figure.

But the fact that the problem is challenging and there are many variables should not, I think, lead us to overlook and accept inaccuracies. A mod that reads 0.04 too high can never be an accurate TC mod. A very good TC mod should be accurate to one-thousandths, 0.001Ω - as the Dicodes mods claim to be (Evolv don't publish their accuracy but I suspect it's 0.001, at least in the new DNA 200.) That said, accuracy to 0.01Ω is acceptable. An offset of 0.04Ω is not.

That's not to say for a moment that the VT does have that problem generally - I'll do some accurate testing of it when I get mine. And as you say, owners can easily compensate for it - once they know. But I do not think we should be nearly so accepting of major inaccuracies, not least because it will not encourage the manufacturers to resolve them. And one can, and I do, compare between my mods and find the results repeatable in all but a few cases - such as my always-too-low SXK. I deal with that issue, but I also hope it will be fixed; I've been in extensive communication with SXK to achieve just that.

Besides which, we few who discuss and share information on forums are in the minority. The average consumer won't even think to compare resistance readings, nor know the significance if they do. You say a TC mod should not be a user's first mod: even if that's true, the average consumer has a right to expect one mod to perform at least in the ballpark of another. If he has learnt that 400 - 450°F is a suitable temp range, he should not have to expect one mod to burn at that level.

TC vaping is certainly not an exact science yet, but that's all the more reason to be intolerant of inaccuracies that are easily resolved.

(And again I will emphasise the above is theoretical and in principle - I am not saying the VT does have such a general inaccuracy. Just that if it does, it should not be accepted as 'one of those things, deal with it.' )

Agree once again. But to give you an idea of the differences, the DNA40 has recommended wire gauges for their chip. If one mod maker uses 28ga wire and the other uses 30ga wire, their resistances will be different. Same chip, different wire gauges.