Joyetech Evic VT 60 Watt

[TheBloke]

Remove tank; turn eVic off; install tank; turn eVic on

Oh yeah, duh Thanks!

OK interesting. That does change the resistance.. to 0.37Ω. So yes it was reading too high because it detects too early, but that's only 0.01Ω of the problem

So there's seemingly two problems - auto read is daft, because it's too quick and will pick up and save a higher resistance; but even when it reads properly, it's still too high.

I will do some probing soon and hopefully that will tell us if this is just a screen issue or real.

PS. After I first put the atomizer on and it read 0.38Ω I went out for 45 minutes with the atty in place and the mod left turned on. When I got back it still read 0.38Ω. If it had done any refinement it should have at least adjusted down to 0.37Ω (what it reads when I do the switch-off/put-on/turn-on procedure). So either no refinement at all, or if there is, it doesn't update the screen.

 

[TheBloke]

Wow this early read is so bad. I just got it to read 0.40Ω and then 0.48Ω! If you turn it slowly it will get a (way too high) reading really easily - and then won't correct it later. At least, according to the screen it won't. Here's hoping that maybe it's only a screen issue.

I'll try a bunch of atomizers, I'm sure it will vary according to atomizer - some better, some worse. I would have said this Derringer is a fairly average 510 though, maybe a slightly more stuck-out positive than some, but I've got plenty worse.

Anyway let me stop posting and get on with my boring non-vaping crap so I can actually test this thing

 

[tchavei]

Oh yeah, duh Thanks!

OK interesting. That does change the resistance.. to 0.37Ω. So yes it was reading too high because it detects too early, but that's only 0.01Ω of the problem

So there's seemingly two problems - auto read is daft, because it's too quick and will pick up and save a higher resistance; but even when it reads properly, it's still too high.

I will do some probing soon and hopefully that will tell us if this is just a screen issue or real.

PS. After I first put the atomizer on and it read 0.38Ω I went out for 45 minutes with the atty in place and the mod left turned on. When I got back it still read 0.38Ω. If it had done any refinement it should have at least adjusted down to 0.37Ω (what it reads when I do the switch-off/put-on/turn-on procedure). So either no refinement at all, or if there is, it doesn't update the screen.

Wow this early read is so bad. I just got it to read 0.40Ω and then 0.48Ω! If you turn it slowly it will get a (way too high) reading really easily - and then won't correct it later. At least, according to the screen it won't. Here's hoping that maybe it's only a screen issue.

I'll try a bunch of atomizers, I'm sure it will vary according to atomizer - some better, some worse. I would have said this Derringer is a fairly average 510 though, maybe a slightly more stuck-out positive than some, but I've got plenty worse.

Anyway let me stop posting and get on with my boring non-vaping crap so I can actually test this thing

I've reported on this thread that I could see resistance differences between the dna and VT between 0.02 and 0.04 Ohms. Dna always lower, VT always higher.

Not sure which one is right.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[tchavei]

Just wanted to add turning it off doesn't really matter if you know what your doing.

Turning it off only turns the output off. The battery leads are still live.

I took apart my istick 50w and continued vaping it while apart too. The wires are protected from shorting. Just don't lay a screwdriver across them lol.

If you KNOW what you're doing, you could be sucking on the atty while you disassemble the mod but the video guy clearly didn't so turning off the mod could help. By what I saw, I don't believe it was the lipo that shorted on the board but rather the inner part of the button cap that either shorted something on the board OR he plain and simply cracked the lateral pcb with the amount of force he used trying to push the button cap inside. Either way, that's not how you disassemble electronic equipment. You proceed with caution and rather wiggle things softly and slowly rather than hard and fast.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[TheBloke]

Ah update, the time it read 0.40Ω from my deliberately screwing it on slowly : it has now refined to 0.37Ω after some unknown long period. I was tweaking the coil about a lot in that time, getting the probe in, I don't know if that played a factor.

This need to turn it off, unscrew the atty and put it back on is damn annoying - it's really hard to unscrew and rescrew an atty with a probe in it. Anyway it's reading 0.37Ω now which is the same as it reads after the on/off procedure, so I won't do another on/off for now.


Tony, yes I remember - I would be almost certain that the DNA is right and the VT is too high. Have you tried the method that @BNEAT described - turn the device off, remove the atty, put it back on, turn it on - such that the atty is in place already when you first turn the device on? You may well have done that once or twice just as part of normal usage, even if it wasn't a specific test. I assume it still read too high even after that, though it may not have been quite as high (it will likely depend on the atomizer in use)

I am finding it reads 0.02Ω too high always, but it can read much higher than that due to the too-early automatic atty detection. Just be interesting to know if you're just seeing the same always-too-high, which for me is 0.02Ω, or whether you're also (sometimes) getting the early-read auto-atty detection issue, where it reads the atomizer as you screw it on and thus reads it too early to get the correct figure. That might account for it sometimes being 0.02 sometimes 0.04

 

[becosemsaida]

And we have a nice pair of scissors to cut the tape and he was very lucky not to pinch the li-po's...... would have been dum, dummer and fireworks all together.

Now for real: is this li-po stuff safe to use?? I saw some vids on YT and until nobody "messes" with them they seem to be safe (seem!!!)

Other question raised is the balanced charging he was talking about but in order to do that we must have each li-po monitorized..... Well the investigation continues. Let's see what Phil has to say about this tomorrow i think he will release his side of the story and put a lot of questions to rest....

beco

 

[becosemsaida]

Ah update, the time it read 0.40Ω from my deliberately screwing it on slowly : it has now refined to 0.37Ω after some unknown long period. I was tweaking the coil about a lot in that time, getting the probe in, I don't know if that played a factor.

This need to turn it off, unscrew the atty and put it back on is damn annoying - it's really hard to unscrew and rescrew an atty with a probe in it. Anyway it's reading 0.37Ω now which is the same as it reads after the on/off procedure, so I won't do another on/off for now.


Tony, yes I remember - I would be almost certain that the DNA is right and the VT is too high. Have you tried the method that @BNEAT described - turn the device off, remove the atty, put it back on, turn it on - such that the atty is in place already when you first turn the device on? You may well have done that once or twice just as part of normal usage, even if it wasn't a specific test. I assume it still read too high even after that, though it may not have been quite as high (it will likely depend on the atomizer in use)

I am finding it reads 0.02Ω too high always, but it can read much higher than that due to the too-early automatic atty detection. Just be interesting to know if you're just seeing the same always-too-high, which for me is 0.02Ω, or whether you're also (sometimes) getting the early-read auto-atty detection issue, where it reads the atomizer as you screw it on and thus reads it too early to get the correct figure. That might account for it sometimes being 0.02 sometimes 0.04

Well after some of you saying it won't read correct i put it on the most reliable device i have: SX mini S class, it reads 0.01Ohm off from the Evic..... this is on room temp. Since i can't use it on the SX i only make it read the coil just to check if i'm not crazy yet.

 

[smokewell]

Since the cells are parallel I believe no balancing is needed. In my 6 years of multicopter hobby I never had any lipo issues. Just a few rules. Don't puncture the cells, charge at 1C, and store at 75% charge.

 

[becosemsaida]

Since the cells are parallel I believe no balancing is needed. In my 6 years of multicopter hobby I never had any lipo issues. Just a few rules. Don't puncture the cells, charge at 1C, and store at 75% charge.

So what about shocks?? We can always drop this device and in both vids i've seen this pack is just a "slide-in"....... Since you are hobbying with things that fly the fall is worse, what do you do in case one of your copters crash (impossible i know but still.....) ??

beco

 

[smokewell]

If the lipo swells up you run

Joking aside, Lipos that are soft or seem swollen are not to be used.

 

[tchavei]

And we have a nice pair of scissors to cut the tape and he was very lucky not to pinch the li-po's...... would have been dum, dummer and fireworks all together.

Now for real: is this li-po stuff safe to use?? I saw some vids on YT and until nobody "messes" with them they seem to be safe (seem!!!)

Other question raised is the balanced charging he was talking about but in order to do that we must have each li-po monitorized..... Well the investigation continues. Let's see what Phil has to say about this tomorrow i think he will release his side of the story and put a lot of questions to rest....

beco

I won't talk about lipos again since every time I do, it gets messy. However, I charge my lipo RC packs with a balancer which balances each individual cell no matter if in series or parallel. It's actually quite a show when terminal voltage is almost reached and one cell is lower than the others as it will start 'burning' off the excess of the cells with higher voltage and chirp like a canary lol.

A proper balancer will monitor each individual cell. The very good balancers will also intervene directly to correct anomalies and interrupt the charging process if things go way out of wack. I have two balancers and one is active and the other is passive. The passive one monitors and corrects but can't stop the charging process or burn off energy at a too high rate. The other intervenes and opens the charging circuit if things go out of hands.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[TheBloke]

OK very preliminary findings, requiring double checking yada yada:

With a Titanium coil, It is setting the temperature too low, by increasing amounts the higher your setting:

• Setting 200°C, reaches 180 - 185°C (offset: -15°C to -20°C)
• Setting 220°C, reaches 200°C (offset: -20°C)
• Setting 240°C, reaches 215°C (offset: -25°C)
• Setting 250°C, reaches 225°C (offset: -25°C)

These numbers are only approximate, from looking at the output figures on my PC screen - I haven't yet put them into Excel to do averages or anything.

So I'll say again these are only preliminaries, I need to double check probe position and such. (But I am pretty sure the probe is at least positioned acceptably - and the fact that I can measure up to 225°C does imply the lower numbers are accurate; incorrect probe position usally sets a ceiling on the temperature I can measure to, from my past experience.)

It does tally nicely with Tony using a setting of 240/250°C, meaning he's actually getting 215-225°C, a normal TC vaping temp.

What's most interesting is that this is the opposite behaviour I would expect from the apparent too-high resistance read. Too low temperature implies it's reading the resistance too low, not too high! But it could also be be that it's using a different TCR for Titanium than the 0.0035 that our Zivipf wire is using - though if so it would mean they had the coefficient too low, which is also bizarre given 0.0035 is the lowest TCR we've seen in any literature - it's either listed as 0.0035 or higher than that, never lower any place I've seen.

Anyway, I will do much more testing later and post some graphs once I'm more confident in the readings. I will test other atomizers, other builds, and also test Ni200.

Oh, two more quick findings:

• Fire timeout is 10 seconds
• It's not too bad at keeping temperature level despite my repeatedly releasing and re-pressing the fire button (because of the timeout)
  • not as good as the DNA 40, but acceptable : it sometimes jumps about +5°C when you re-press fire, but often it's less than that.

 

[tchavei]

OK very preliminary findings, requiring double checking yada yada:

With a Titanium coil, It is setting the temperature too low, by increasing amounts the higher your setting:

• Setting 200°C, reaches 180 - 185°C (offset: -15°C to -20°C)
• Setting 220°C, reaches 200°C (offset: -20°C)
• Setting 240°C, reaches 215°C (offset: -25°C)
• Setting 250°C, reaches 225°C (offset: -25°C)

These numbers are only approximate, from looking at the output figures on my PC screen - I haven't yet put them into Excel to do averages or anything.

So I'll say again these are only preliminaries, I need to double check probe position and such. (But I am pretty sure the probe is at least positioned acceptably - and the fact that I can measure up to 225°C does imply the lower numbers are accurate; incorrect probe position usally sets a ceiling on the temperature I can measure to, from my past experience.)

It does tally nicely with Tony using a setting of 240/250°C, meaning he's actually getting 215-225°C, a normal TC vaping temp.

What's most interesting is that this is the opposite behaviour I would expect from the apparent too-high resistance read. Too low temperature implies it's reading the resistance too low, not too high! But it could also be be that it's using a different TCR for Titanium than the 0.0035 that our Zivipf wire is using - though if so it would mean they had the coefficient too low, which is also bizarre given 0.0035 is the lowest TCR we've seen in any literature - it's either listed as 0.0035 or higher than that, never lower any place I've seen.

Anyway, I will do much more testing later and post some graphs once I'm more confident in the readings. I will test other atomizers, other builds, and also test Ni200.

Oh, two more quick findings:

• Fire timeout is 10 seconds
• It's not too bad at keeping temperature level despite my repeatedly releasing and re-pressing the fire button (because of the timeout)
  • not as good as the DNA 40, but acceptable : it sometimes jumps about +5°C when you re-press fire, but often it's less than that.

Finally someone confirms I'm not crazy lol.

THANK YOU!

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[TheBloke]

PS I have version 1.18 like everyone else

 

[tchavei]

Don't know mate but DJLsb knows what he's talking about - this is the device he used to do the testing;View attachment 466106

It's certainly a lot more scientific than Adam's video which I thought was incredibly, incredibly dumb.

I like the way he said that he loved the VT just before completely destroying it, asking for a replacement and then calling Joyetech liars and telling everyone not to buy one.

Makes me glad that Youtube has a block user function - what an idiotic "review".

Just one thing... Actually two :

1. I ordered that USB meter... For 6 bucks, it seems like a cool gadget

2. Reading the manual, it states that to calculate REAL mah sent to the battery you have to do:

4868 x 4.76 / 3.7 x efficiency (assuming 90%)

So the battery was actually 'charged' with 5636,355 mah which it obviously wasn't or the USB was connected way longer than it took to completely charge the mod.

One thing I noticed is if you fully charge the mod and leave it turned on, after 24h you loose like 10% (battery bar doesn't show full anymore.

I believe one would get a more accurate result charging the VT turned off and only for like 6 hours period (using a timer)



Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[smokewell]

Just a heads up. GB has flash sale of the full kit of evic VT for 57.99.

 

[becosemsaida]

Well i have a diferent problem and it might be worse then a floating res. I tried several builds with diferent res but ALWAYS the same juice.. New build lots of flavour and lots of clouds, low temp. and low W.. great vape experience. After a couple of hours: no flavour, clouds are ok (i'm not a CC) just dims out completely, same res reading.. This goes on until i put the device away pick-up my SX with kanthal and great vape again... I have to make a new build to get the same experience back, so building is about 2-3X a day if i want it to taste like i'm used to. Using a subtank mini, 0.11Ohm res with awg 30 Nickel 200 and a 2.5 id. tried 3 and 2 but worse for flavour..

I'm starting to think that tc is not for me....... and i'm really thinking of selling this since it doesn't satisfies me... Seem i have to go always back to kanthal to get a good vaping experience. This in VW is a great device too but if i can't enjoy it what's the point of having a tc device.....

beco

 

[janne303]

Just a heads up. GB has flash sale of the full kit of evic VT for 57.99.

I only see a 99.99 price

Skickat från min D6503 via Tapatalk

 

[aldenf]

Li-Po batteries are not only safe, they are ideal for our purposes. Has anyone had their cellular phone or tablet vent/blow up on them yet? My Android tablet is 3 years old and my cell a couple months behind it...

The horror stories we hear about Li-Po batteries primarily come from the RC world. A 10,000 mAh (or greater) battery is discharged in 10 minutes then recharged in 20 minutes. This creates a lot of HEAT (Li-Po's worst enemy) and degradation of the cells. Discharging the cell(s) over a 12-48 hour time period and recharging in 5 hours is actually very gentle on the Li-Pos. The 1 amp charger included with the VT, charges at a rate of 0.2C. 1C (5 amp in this case) is generally the recommendation for maximum safe charging of Li-Pos. Some are 2C. Were 80-90% below that. Because of their lower internal resistance (compared to standard Li-Ion chemistries), Li-Po cells (in parallel) self balance while charging very well. Add to this a charging rate of 1 amp, over five hours and the chance of unbalanced batteries is slim to none. If this was a real issue, we'd have to have balanced discharging circuitry as well, which is ridiculous. (In fact, because of their low internal resistance, Li-Pos are much better suited to series applications than ordinary Li-Ion batts. They discharge much more evenly.) A balance charger can be helpful when charging a battery pack at 2C (10amps in the case of the VT) or higher as the amperage can overwhelm an individual cell's internal resistance. The VT cells will fail to take a charge at all before a 1amp charge overwhelms their internal resistance.

The only other issue to be concerned with is the accidental puncturing of a Li-Po cell's wrapper. Remember Smoktech's Groove? The chemistry does not like to be exposed to air. Joyetech has apparently padded the battery pack appropriately. It would take something very sharp to puncture the outer wrapping of the pack AND an individual cell's pouch. I do not, however, recommend driving over your VT with a Peterbilt.

I'm not saying that there is absolutely zero risk. I believe, however, that there is no more risk with Li-Pos than with our standard 18650s and maybe less under certain circumstances. A little common sense goes a long way...

 

[JeremyR]

If you KNOW what you're doing, you could be sucking on the atty while you disassemble the mod but the video guy clearly didn't so turning off the mod could help. By what I saw, I don't believe it was the lipo that shorted on the board but rather the inner part of the button cap that either shorted something on the board OR he plain and simply cracked the lateral pcb with the amount of force he used trying to push the button cap inside. Either way, that's not how you disassemble electronic equipment. You proceed with caution and rather wiggle things softly and slowly rather than hard and fast.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Oh sorry, didn't view the video to see his idiocricy. Lol