Just because we "Can"......should we?
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Are you familiar with a piece of equipment known as a steamroller?
Because the anti-smoking industry has stream-rolled smokers for decades now.
And they are turning their sights on vapers.
They don't like that it looks like smoking.
They don't like that it may destroy their decades long propaganda campaign to marginalize smokers and smoking.
Or should I say "demonize" them.
In fact, they don't like that the general public in the end might not really mind vapers in various places where smoking is now banned.
Like beaches, parks, public property, and hospitals and colleges including the ENTIRE campus and parking lots.
And let's not get started on your car or your place of residence.
Because those bans are starting to happen as we speak.
Your approach feeds that steamroller, and will get us steam-rolled.
Same applies to all of you who are prepared to observe vaping bans where smoking is banned.
Forcing it on people, which seems to be what you are proposing, is also a steamroller approach from the opposite direction. You will never be accepted by people who you are teaching to hate you.
The truth is, it's not everyday civilians you come across every day who will make the decisions on where and when vaping is allowed, but annoy enough of them and they will sure make their voices heard to the ones who make the decisions.
oh... not again, please!
The propaganda against vaping follows the propaganda against smoking.
And that is not - repeat: not - driven by the general public. But instead driven by a multi-billion dollar industry which commands people who are paid money to say what they say and to do what they do.
The behavior of vapers does not have the least thing to do with that. Not at all. Not in the least. Not in a month of Sundays.
No matter how nice, polite, helpful or reticent a "witch" was in the Middle Ages, she was still persecuted - because she was deemed a "witch".
Same thing here.
The propaganda against vaping follows the propaganda against smoking.
And that is not - repeat: not - driven by the general public. But instead driven by a multi-billion dollar industry which commands people who are paid money to say what they say and to do what they do.
The behavior of vapers does not have the least thing to do with that. Not at all. Not in the least. Not in a month of Sundays.
No matter how nice, polite, helpful or reticent a "witch" was in the Middle Ages, she was still persecuted - because she was deemed a "witch".
Same thing here.
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That is not what I am proposing at all.
I am proposing that we fight ignorance, lies, and decades of propaganda.
And I am proposing that truth and science is used for setting legislative goals.
Alas, that is not the way of the world these days, for the most part.
But I for one am not willing to accept that ignorance should form public opinion nor public policy.
To do so would be a travesty of reality, justice, science, and truth.
Not that TMZ would mind any of those things.
Somewhere along the line things changed in this country. At one time being independent and being your own person was a positive. Innovation was the way ahead. Now it's I want to be a carbon copy of everyone else. Being independent is a fault and it will be the ruination of our society.
I know what your stance is I just don't see what we can do about it. It's hard to fight a mass marketing machine intent on portraying you as a source of evil. There is a good chance it will backfire on them anyway. For every smoker who turns to vaping, there are LOTS of friends and relatives who find out what they've done and support them in every way and become educated to what vaping really is.
Word of mouth helps a lot and goes a long way, these are people who will be on our side if we need to fight legislation. I always ask if I can vape in a bar or any other place and if they say no I accept it. That is the only good response in my mind. Vaping any place it's not welcome just because you feel you have the right will sway all the neutrals who may otherwise have been on our side as a result of seeing it help people they love kick cigs for good.
Lobby politicians, join action groups, do whatever you feel is worth doing for the good fight but pissing off the general public needlessly helps nobody, just my opinion.
So is that socialism or communism?
Because I often confuse those two political philosophies.
I think being a carbon copy of everyone else is just the beginning. Probably a combination of socialism and fascism. Things are going to change big time in the future. I am getting older but I fear for my kids.
Yes. Yes!! A thousand times yes.
It's not just about us vapers.
It's about those who care about us and should be standing with us and beside us.
And it's about those who still smoke too much, and might benefit from harm reduction.
These are the people we have a responsibility to reach and teach, if we are comfortable with that responsibility.
This is a point of debate that I won't get into here.
There are many thread on this topic.
Suffice to say that there is a middle ground, and that is what we as vapers need to find.
But we must at least try to insure that this middle ground is not based on fear or ignorance, but rather truth and science.
Pissing off the general public will get us nowhere fast.
And I hope that no one is advocating that.
But then we have to examine what exactly it is that pisses off the general public.
Some say it is the mere act of vaping.
And some say that the mere act of vaping helps normalize our behavior while showing the public things are okay.
It is all going to come down to politics, manipulation, fear, truth, and science.
We have to make sure we don't give up when truth and science favor us.
The ones that don't favor us are politics, fear, and manipulation.
And I don't' want to let the liars win.
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It might help some if we support the small 'local' business end of the Vaping industry.
Openly boasting about bypassing our local interests by 'fast teching' in boat loads of stuff from China certainly draws attention.
If you have a dozen Vape shops in town...all providing jobs and paying a share of taxes then Mayors and City councils are more apt to LISTEN to them and their coustomers.
On the other hand...sneaking in a sea van full of junk from Hong Kong is NOT winning us any domestic friends (ironically, we're jumping all over products that were bound to have been produced and distributed at a LOSS...hence government subsided in order to impact international markets and saturate the value of various currencies).
There's nothing wrong with bargain hunting from a consumer's point of view...BUT...
With unemployment sky-rocketing, the dollar shriveling in value, credit ratings dropping to all time global lows, and legislation after legislation being forced into place that FORCES people to constantly spend money they don't have, and never will...well...there is a GREAT need to 'localize' economic interests in anything we can.
It's not just here in the states. It's even worse in EU countries. Count the threads where people 'openly brag' about getting around VAT fees and such by ordering from ANYWHERE but their fellow Europeans. Odd that their own governments will RAPE their wallets for buying local, or from another nation that actually has some form of a bill or rights for its people.
The PV market is starting to grow large enough to catch attention. It's getting big enough to 'tax and control'. Sadly, those with big financial stakes in the pie will be far over seas....and not exactly welcome at the 'local' political rally.
In short...we have to do more than just 'consume' the stuff...sending millions over seas in the process.
We gotta dig in here....and make it so such an industry is a 'friend' of the city...and less of a wealth sucker for the benefit of some other country's top ruling class.
Openly boasting about bypassing our local interests by 'fast teching' in boat loads of stuff from China certainly draws attention.
If you have a dozen Vape shops in town...all providing jobs and paying a share of taxes then Mayors and City councils are more apt to LISTEN to them and their coustomers.
On the other hand...sneaking in a sea van full of junk from Hong Kong is NOT winning us any domestic friends (ironically, we're jumping all over products that were bound to have been produced and distributed at a LOSS...hence government subsided in order to impact international markets and saturate the value of various currencies).
There's nothing wrong with bargain hunting from a consumer's point of view...BUT...
With unemployment sky-rocketing, the dollar shriveling in value, credit ratings dropping to all time global lows, and legislation after legislation being forced into place that FORCES people to constantly spend money they don't have, and never will...well...there is a GREAT need to 'localize' economic interests in anything we can.
It's not just here in the states. It's even worse in EU countries. Count the threads where people 'openly brag' about getting around VAT fees and such by ordering from ANYWHERE but their fellow Europeans. Odd that their own governments will RAPE their wallets for buying local, or from another nation that actually has some form of a bill or rights for its people.
The PV market is starting to grow large enough to catch attention. It's getting big enough to 'tax and control'. Sadly, those with big financial stakes in the pie will be far over seas....and not exactly welcome at the 'local' political rally.
In short...we have to do more than just 'consume' the stuff...sending millions over seas in the process.
We gotta dig in here....and make it so such an industry is a 'friend' of the city...and less of a wealth sucker for the benefit of some other country's top ruling class.
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I haven't had any negative reaction to vaping just people who are curious and don't know what to make of it. I don't get defensive and will explain what I'm doing if people ask. This is how vapers get to talk to smokers who stop being smokers and become vapers.
I think in public places where smoking is banned, vaping looks suspicious. How we spread the word that it isn't dangerous without actually being allowed to vape there is a problem we can't fight.
Politics will hurt us, yes, ignorant fear also, but only the fear instilled in people by shady government types who know better but have their own agenda.
I still believe as vaping becomes more widespread and the public become more educated as to what it actually is the wheels of the propoganda machine will fall off. They have a lot of ammunition to use against smokers, they have little to use against us and will have to openly lie to convince anyone vaping is a bad thing.
I stopped going to theatres long ago. Too overpriced and alot of other issues that bother me. I'm not the type that likes to be in crowded places. I get distracted easily too so the people talking, making loud chewing noises, the candy wrappers crunching, babies crying, the inconsiderate guy with a huge head that decideds to sit directly in front of you even though his entire row is empty, the mini TSA agents constantly monitoring you with their little lights, the ...... behind you constantly kicking your chair and the list goes on. I prefer my trusty little friend utorrent and my big couch, and my mod of course
@Credo:
I do agree with you. I am from Europe, and I mostly buy local. Online local, as there are not many offline shops where I live. But from the same country, or at least from the EU. Depending on who has what. E.g, Inawera flavors are made and sold in Poland.
And yes, most of the vendors in Germany are active in the vendors association in Germany. Which is quite vocal.
Then why not support them with my money?
And I personally do not understand this Fasttech craze.
I can buy everything that I want right here in my country. And have it delivered the next day, very often. Sometimes with a nice note and even a little present.
Then why on earth order my vaping supplies from half a world away, wait long for shipping (that stuff is coming from the other side of the world), risk having to write nasty letters to customs (if customs decides to illegally impound my stuff - yes, they do that sometimes...) and go through all this bother?
Naawww. I buy local.
And if I cannot afford / do not wish to spend the money for .. a very expensive mod, well then I just make do with my x number of adjustable batteries and the 3 mods that I already have
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little story:
The other day I went to a vape fair in Germany. Bought some hardware from one of the shops that was displaying and selling goods there. It turned out that they were the first shop that was threatened by the police with (ill-)legal action and closing in December 2011, when one politician in one German state (illegally!) unilaterally declared that vaping liquids were "not allowed medicines". (The courts stopped that crap later and actually forbade that politician from saying such untruths).
Well, let me tell you, that shop has most certainly won me as a customer. And I will continue to buy from them and to give my money to a shop right here in Germany that was threatened with miscarriage of justice, sued against it, and won.
Instead of sending my money to China....
I do agree with you. I am from Europe, and I mostly buy local. Online local, as there are not many offline shops where I live. But from the same country, or at least from the EU. Depending on who has what. E.g, Inawera flavors are made and sold in Poland.
And yes, most of the vendors in Germany are active in the vendors association in Germany. Which is quite vocal.
Then why not support them with my money?
And I personally do not understand this Fasttech craze.
I can buy everything that I want right here in my country. And have it delivered the next day, very often. Sometimes with a nice note and even a little present.
Then why on earth order my vaping supplies from half a world away, wait long for shipping (that stuff is coming from the other side of the world), risk having to write nasty letters to customs (if customs decides to illegally impound my stuff - yes, they do that sometimes...) and go through all this bother?
Naawww. I buy local.
And if I cannot afford / do not wish to spend the money for .. a very expensive mod, well then I just make do with my x number of adjustable batteries and the 3 mods that I already have
edit:
little story:
The other day I went to a vape fair in Germany. Bought some hardware from one of the shops that was displaying and selling goods there. It turned out that they were the first shop that was threatened by the police with (ill-)legal action and closing in December 2011, when one politician in one German state (illegally!) unilaterally declared that vaping liquids were "not allowed medicines". (The courts stopped that crap later and actually forbade that politician from saying such untruths).
Well, let me tell you, that shop has most certainly won me as a customer. And I will continue to buy from them and to give my money to a shop right here in Germany that was threatened with miscarriage of justice, sued against it, and won.
Instead of sending my money to China....
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Thanks for sharing your story
I'd like to point out that I don't have anything against the Chinese and healthy global commerce. Every single individual I've ever met from China was extremely honorable, polite, and fair minded on a one on one basis. Wonderful people who need to eat, sleep, and be merry just like the rest of us.
It's just that ANY industry needs friends with 'locals', or they get little to no say in the politics and regulations surrounding their growing markets. If you only 'take take take' and don't at least meet the 'politics of a region' on some middle ground...they'll eventually find ways to 'squeeze you out' all together. Right or wrong...politicians see themselves as trying to 'look out for their local interests'. When they see loads of wealth slipping beyond their borders...they tend to want a cut of the action.
I can see how vaping during a movie would be considered rude, as the mist does have potential of obscuring the screen. Then again, wouldn't this be the case of vaping at home when watching TV/movie with another person (say non-vaper) in the room?
I do think if using cell phone and talking before previews start is okay, then vaping could be allowed at that time. But seeing that even some vapors would consider that rude, then I'd love to see a 'vaping optional' theater open up, that at very least would allow vaping before previews start, and preferably at any time during the film.
If I knew of such a theater, where the option existed, I'd likely go to the movies more. As it stands now, there are about 12 reasons why it makes sense to watch vast majority of movies in own home theater than to go to a movie theater.
I do think if using cell phone and talking before previews start is okay, then vaping could be allowed at that time. But seeing that even some vapors would consider that rude, then I'd love to see a 'vaping optional' theater open up, that at very least would allow vaping before previews start, and preferably at any time during the film.
If I knew of such a theater, where the option existed, I'd likely go to the movies more. As it stands now, there are about 12 reasons why it makes sense to watch vast majority of movies in own home theater than to go to a movie theater.
My philosophy is very simple: don't vape where you wouldn't have smoked - in public that is.
Makes only sense in my opinion. Why attract unneeded attention? Doesn't help or cause....
Oh one exception to my rule: I vape in bathrooms at work, plane or train etc
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Makes only sense in my opinion. Why attract unneeded attention? Doesn't help or cause....
Oh one exception to my rule: I vape in bathrooms at work, plane or train etc
Sent via Mobile
Would love to know if this is being asked rhetorically? I think vaping everywhere helps our cause.
In that case I would smoke anywhere (except a fireworks store or gas station), it was the new laws that kept me from smoking in public. Since there are few places with laws against vaping I guess you're saying to vape 'em if you got 'em.
Hey now, my sister lived in Prescott for years, and I have been there many times.
It's a nice town, and not really a cow town.
ROFL!
It is a nice town............moo......what? Been up here for 24 years and originally from Scottsdale, 28 years. Seriously, I've run cattle less than 5 miles from Whiskey Row, you'd be surprised!- Status
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