Just saying hi, and looking to be pointed in the right direction!

[John D in CT]

Mrs. T's Bakery. [ ...who the hell makes ill pickle flavor]

No, but I'd try it [anchovy flavor] if she did.

If that's not a "ringing endorsement" of a flavor vendor, then I've never heard one!

I see Mrs. T in my future. What are some "must try" flavors from her? (And is dill pickle one of them LOL)

Just goes to show, you really NEVER know what you're going to end up liking.

 

[DC2]

There are a lot of people that will recommend a lot of the various Mrs T's Bakery flavors.

I think that the usual favorite is Snickerdoodle, which I'm not into.
I think Bananas Foster Coffee is another favorite, which didn't do much for me.

I have really liked the following from Mrs T's Bakery...
--Blueberry Muffin
--Cinnamon Rolls
--Pizza

And no, I am not yet ready to recommend the Dill Pickle.
I think I'm going to let it sit for a few weeks, or maybe a month, and give it another go.

Having said all that, I don't believe in recommending flavors, because it usually doesn't work.
The only juice I will not hesitate to recommend, for the most part, is Dekang DK-TAB because I've never seen anyone not like it.

 

[Dana A]

I think Mrs ts uses a LOT of VG. The flavors were pretty good but I just can't do them because I am a TH junkie. I would recommend not buying all of your juices from the same vendor. It seems that some vendors have the same under tone flavor in all of their juices. This can be good or bad depending on if you like it or not. Nothing against Myfreedomsmokes but for some reason their liquids have a certain harshness for me. Too bad because I like a lot of their flavors. My best friend swears by them and says my Dekang ones are harsh. I think trying different vendors is a great idea despite paying separate shipping in the beginning.

 

[DC2]

I think Mrs ts uses a LOT of VG.

Yeah, that is my opinion as well, and I'm not a fan of VG really.

I tried to ask what their PG/VG percentage was but apparently it is a trade secret.
That kind of pisses me off, to be honest, but I need that Blueberry Muffin!

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

And I've respected your posts and info but he's being advised to buy VV when he doesn't know yet whether or not he needs/ wants VV. in my experience of converting people I've found most do reallly need a VV. Myself I smoked 1PAD very strong analogs was gifted a Provari and quickly discovered I had no need for it. I find that's it's far more critical and important to have the proper Nic level and delivery device- carto, tank, etc for new vapors. In the end it really doesn't matter to me which PV he chowder A's long A's he kicks the stinkies to the curb. Also note I gave you a like for you very detailed reco post.
Cheers.
P.S. Converted 3 more people last night

Vapoor, you know I love you but I've just never really understood this. The learning curve for adjusting the voltage on a Provari is well under 5 minutes, and on the Twist, it's arguably under 30 seconds. You "twist" the knob on the bottom. If you want to know pretty much what a kGo would have been like, turn it almost all the way down and leave it there.

I just cannot recommend fixed voltage for anyone just starting out. Not since the Twist.

 

[hooked911]

Welcome to ECF

 

[John D in CT]

And I've respected your posts and info but he's being advised to buy VV when he doesn't know yet whether or not he needs/ wants VV. in my experience of converting people I've found most do [did you mean to say "don't"?]really need a VV. Myself I smoked 1PAD very strong analogs was gifted a Provari and quickly discovered I had no need for it [And I still don't "get" that] . I find that's it's far more critical and important to have the proper Nic level and delivery device- carto, tank, etc for new vapors. In the end it really doesn't matter to me which PV he [chooses] as long as he kicks the stinkies to the curb. Also note I gave you a like for you very detailed [recent] post.
Cheers.
P.S. Converted 3 more people last night

Vap, thanks for the kind words, and dissenting opinions. First and foremost, I want to convey my dissent to your dissent in the most agreeable and cooperative fashion possible so that you will ideally become an ally and not an opponent.

I've repeatedly made the analogy that this is a war; a war against death and disease. In war, one needs allies, and the best weapons possible. Variable voltage is a better weapon than constant voltage. It just is. Thanks largely to the Joyetech Twist, we now have the rough equivalent of an M16/AR15 that costs about the same as an M1 Garand. To me, there is no question that a variable voltage PV will better defeat the enemy - or as you say, "[kick] the stinkies to the curb" - so that puts me on the other side of "in the end it really doesn't matter to me which PV he [chooses]".

It does matter to me. In virtually every case, variable voltage will give a better overall vaping experience than will constant voltage. It just will.

This is an interesting thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...866-why-does-ego-c-get-such-bad-rap-site.html

In it, someone says that his vape with a Joyetech eGo (fixed 3.4V) battery is "perfect". I then suggest that it might just be "more perfect" with a variable voltage Twist. And it would be. IMO there is no reasonable argument to be made that constant voltage is in any way superior to variable voltage. The flip side of that is that I don't think any reasonable argument can be made that anyone - beginner, intermediate, or "expert" - should be without variable voltage.

When two Twist batteries can be had for $38, there is just no way in hell that I'm going to recommend to anyone that they get two kGo batteries instead for only slightly less than that. I'm just not.

I turned someone from "The Dark Side" myself yesterday. Spur of the moment thing; I had brought a kit over to a friend's house last night - two Twists, two Smoktech 3.5ml DCT tanks, five slotted Boge 2.0 ohm single coil XL cartos, charger, drip tip, and juice - but she had to leave before I got there. Her ex-smoker Dad was there, and her brother (smoking a big, fat stogie), and his girlfriend, smoking a ..... The girlfriend left with the kit and a new outlook (and lease) on life. It took me about 5 seconds to explain to her that for more heat to the coil, you turn the knob clockwise. Would she be better off with two kGo batteries? No. No, she would not.

Far too much deference is given on this site to beginners who very often don't really know what they want. They might think they know what they want, but it is impossible for them to have reasons that are as valid as they might think they are. They don't know what more experienced people know. They just don't. How could they? Why would they? It's OK that people don't know everything about everything. It would be a very odd state of affairs if they did.

That said, one place where we have to defer to a beginner's preferences is in "form factor". They do know what size and shape they want, and if they want a ciggie look-alike, then I will recommend a Volt. But I might very well also offer a long-term strategy; get a Volt, and if you end up wanting more battery life, vaping time, convenience, vapor production, or variable voltage, then get one of about five variable voltage devices, and one or more of maybe a half-dozen different attachments. And some great juice. Lots of it.

This is really not all that complicated. It's really pretty simple. And I think to keep it as simple as possible, I think it would be nice if we could all get "on the same page" as much as possible, and among the contents of that page is (IMO) that variable voltage will give you a better overall vape, under a wider range of conditions, than constant voltage. I simply do not see how a valid argument to the contrary can possibly be made.

In conclusion: peace out, vape on, and death to cigarettes and Big Tobacco.

 

[Wishdog]

My reccomendations were mentioned earlier, but I want to say them anyway.

I'd go (and did) with two EGO-T batteries (I got a kit, but am replacing everthing but the batts,) some Boge cartos, and some groovy drip tips to go on top of those. If you want to drip for real, get a bridgless atty.

I'd reccomend not blowing the $400 at one time, as you'll hit that $400 mark within a few months if you're like me, ordering more stuff before the stuff I ordered even comes in. You can blow $50 on liquid easy.

What I'm thinking about getting is a handfull of Claromizer V3s. I don't really dig the shape of the cylindrical tanks. And I"m generally looking for things I would find neat. I'd love to find some cheap terra cotta drip tips or fancy replacement housings for batts that don't look like they were made for teenagers.

I'll probably end up buying at least one version of every carto on the market. I want a passthrough, in theory, but I'm not sure I'd ever really use it due to being tethered by a wire.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Barto]

Welcome to the best e cigarette forum there is!

 

[John D in CT]

My reccomendations were mentioned earlier, but I want to say them anyway.

I'd go (and did) with two EGO-T batteries ..... I want a passthrough, in theory, but I'm not sure I'd ever really use it due to being tethered by a wire.

Welcome aboard.

Could you please share your reasoning behind recommending the fixed-voltage eGo battery over the variable-voltage eGo Twist? (Or are you simply unaware of the existence of the Joyetech Twist, which is certainly forgiveable).

Also, Joyetech eGo-class passthroughs don't have to be plugged in all the time like Joyetech 510-class passthroughs do. It's just an option.

 

[DC2]

And I've respected your posts and info but he's being advised to buy VV when he doesn't know yet whether or not he needs/ wants VV.

Some people may not need variable voltage at all.
Just like some people may not need anything other than a Volt.

But in the end, far more people need more than a Volt.
And far more people would probably appreciate variable voltage.

Back in the days when variable voltage meant expensive and large, the question of recommending them to newbies was harder.
But with the Twist (a game-changer!) it becomes an awful lot easier to just start someone there.

Of course there is the argument that the process of moving up gives you a better appreciation.
I think many people overlook that. But then again, sometimes saving money is a primary objective.

In the end, I think all factors need to be taken into account...
--How much did someone smoke?
--How important "do they think" form factor is?
--How much do they like to "fiddle" with things?
--What is their budget?

And what about what juices they like?

I would be much happier recommending variable voltage to someone who likes tobacco/coffee/chocolate flavors.
And I would be more hesitant in recommending variable voltage to someone into fruit flavors.

This is an evolving market, and we need to keep learning as products keep improving.
The best recommendations can/will/do/have always changed over time.

I'm going to consider that my five cents worth.
Because that took longer than two cents would have taken.

 

[John D in CT]

Some people might not need legs at all, but most would probably say that they are nice to have. And I would not start someone out on a kGo battery simply so they could better appreciate Twist down the road. Not when I consider it so important that their first experience with vaping be as satisfying and pleasurable as possible, given the dire consequences of reverting to smoking cigarettes. "Down the road" might never happen if they don't like vaping enough.

In conclusion, I wish that a lot of people would start making a little more sense around here. There, I said it.

 

[DC2]

Some people might not need legs at all, but most would probably say that they are nice to have. And I would not start someone out on a kGo battery simply so they could better appreciate Twist down the road. Not when I consider it so important that their first experience with vaping be as satisfying and pleasurable as possible, given the dire consequences of reverting to smoking cigarettes. "Down the road" might never happen if they don't like vaping enough.

In conclusion, I wish that a lot of people would start making a little more sense around here. There, I said it.

You shouldn't have said it.

The KGo is plenty for a lot of people.
In fact the Volt is plenty for a lot of people.

If you can't see that, then you are blinded by the "everyone must be like me" factor.
That does not help as much as you think it does.

You like higher voltages I assume, and so do I for sure.
I vape at 5 volts and refuse to go lower.

But if you vape lighter flavors, you'll kill them at 5 volts.
So expand your outlook and open your mind if you want to help.


EDIT: And for what it's worth, I could have sworn I was mostly agreeing with you
EDIT: I would have thought that Vapoor Eyes Er was going to be the one to respond negatively to my post.
EDIT:

 

[John D in CT]

Maybe I "shouldn't" have said it, maybe I "should" have. But after considering it long and hard, I did say it, and that, I suppose, is that.

The Volt does not belong in what I consider the crux of this discussion, and to me, that is: is there a compelling reason to recommend to someone a fixed-voltage xGo-class device over a variable-voltage xGo class device; namely, the Joyetech eGo-C Twist. If so, what is it.

Again, I reject the argument that "they will appreciate variable voltage more 'down the road' if they get a constant-voltage kGo or eGo first". A), I don't think it's worth the risk that they will find vaping an unsatisfactory replacement for cigarettes, and B) if they want to see what constant voltage is like, they can just turn the Twist down to around 3.4 - 3.7 volts and leave it there.

Too complicated? Please.

Not worth the extra cost? A Twist 650mah can be had for $19.

So what is the rationale for not recommending a Twist over a kGo or eGo?

 

[John D in CT]

You shouldn't have said it.

The KGo is plenty for a lot of people.
In fact the Volt is plenty for a lot of people.

If you can't see that, then you are blinded by the "everyone must be like me" factor.That does not help as much as you think it does.

You like higher voltages I assume, and so do I for sure.
I vape at 5 volts and refuse to go lower.

But if you vape lighter flavors, you'll kill them at 5 volts.
So expand your outlook and open your mind if you want to help.

*****

Let me add to my short list of requests. In addition to my request above for a rational explanation for recommending a fixed-voltage xGo-class device over a Twist, I request that people read my posts carefully before they hurl charges my way.

"Far too much deference is given on this site to beginners who very often don't really know what they want. They might think they know what they want, but it is impossible for them to have reasons that are as valid as they might think they are. They don't know what more experienced people know. They just don't. How could they? Why would they? It's OK that people don't know everything about everything. It would be a very odd state of affairs if they did.

That said, one place where we have to defer to a beginner's preferences is in "form factor". They do know what size and shape they want, and if they want a ciggie look-alike, then I will recommend a Volt. But I might very well also offer a long-term strategy; get a Volt, and if you end up wanting more battery life, vaping time, convenience, vapor production, or variable voltage, then get one of about five variable voltage devices, and one or more of maybe a half-dozen different attachments. And some great juice. Lots of it.

This is really not all that complicated. It's really pretty simple. And I think to keep it as simple as possible, I think it would be nice if we could all get "on the same page" as much as possible, and among the contents of that page is (IMO) that variable voltage will give you a better overall vape, under a wider range of conditions, than constant voltage. I simply do not see how a valid argument to the contrary can possibly be made.

In conclusion: peace out, vape on, and death to cigarettes and Big Tobacco".

And I do not advocate variable voltage from the position of craving inordinate amounts of wattage. I advocate variable voltage because it allows you to have your porridge "just right". Right now I'm vaping at 3.4 [VMax version 1.0] volts on a Boge 3.0 ohm single coil carto that reads 2.8 ohms on my VMax. That comes out to 4.13 watts. Granted, the VMax version 1.0 puts out more actual voltage than what it reads; an endearing quality IMO. If it is indeed putting out more like 4.4 volts when it says its putting out 3.4 volts, that would be more like 6.9 watts. But it's very, very nice IMO that I can turn it up or down a little if and when I feel like it.

In conclusion; are you sure that is not actually you who might benefit from the (unsolicited) advice "So expand your outlook and open your mind if you want to help?"

 

[DC2]

I don't think we are disagreeing as much as you think we are.

Well, other than when you made this comment, which motivated my follow up post...

Some people might not need legs at all, but most would probably say that they are nice to have.

But I do feel that consideration needs to be made for factors unique to each individual, legs notwithstanding.
And that means leaving room for Volts, and X2 batteries, and those that eventually find they never need more than 3.7 volts.

If you start with a Volt, which you should if you must have a mini to start with, then X2 should often be the next recommendation.
Especially if the vaper in question is into light and/or fruity flavors.

But at the same time, moving to higher voltage would be a valid recommendation for other people.
And learning how to tell the differences is useful for everyone, and is not something that we should just blow off without thought.

That's what I'm trying to say I guess.

 

[John D in CT]

It is not "higher" voltage I am advocating, it is "variable" voltage. And just as most people would probably prefer having two legs as opposed to zero legs, I feel that most people would find their vaping experience more enjoyable with variable voltage than with fixed voltage.

Am I being "subjective" when I say that? Yes. Just as I would be if I said that I preferred being hit on the head with a small hammer as opposed to being hit on the head with a large hammer.

And I still welcome a compelling argument for recommending an "xGo" fixed-voltage battery over a variable voltage eGo-class battery, which currently consists of a single device - the Joyetech eGo-C Twist.

 

[yzer]

I'll take the heretical and reactionary position here.

I'm guessing that 80% of those with a serious smoking habit (pack or more a day) can quit comfortably with a regulated single voltage 3.7V APV and they can remain satisfied with the same equipment indefinitely.

Success in quitting cigarettes and staying quit requires more than Variable Voltage. It requires an APV that is easy to use and requires the least amount of attention and expense to operate. Running out of battery power or being unable to afford a reasonable amount of batteries are deal killers.

The battery is an important factor in success. I believe vapers will have a higher level of success with an APV that will operate a day or more between charges without being attached to the USB umbilical cord. This points to batteries of 1000mAh capacity and more. Keep in mind that when you get much above 1000mAh of battery capacity you sacrifice portability. Relatively safe batteries should be as inexpensive as possible allowing the user to go the longest period of time between battery charging. Expense limits success. Maintenance time limits success. This points to relatively inexpensive standard cylindrical batteries of approximately 1000mAh capacity (until better batteries are developed).

Single coil LR cartos and attys are designed to provide the highest level of performance with regulated 3.7V batteries. The vapor produced by LR atomizers, cartos and other devices produce vapor of comparable quality to a higher voltage APV (say 4.2V) with standard resistance (2.5 ohms and above) attys and cartomizers.

Portability is a huge factor for vapers who are not retired or anchored to a coffee table or work station. If it doesn't fit into the pocket or purse of a vapor with an active lifestyle then it isn't going to work.

I'll advise the following for vapers with an active lifestyle looking for a good first first APV. Find something that is small enough to fit into a pocket or purse and will run all day long on a single battery. Buy a second unit for backup. If you can't: then work your way up to larger APVs or passthroughs.

VV is great if you don't want to experiment with attys or cartos of different resistance values. Just purchase a standard resistance atty or carto and turn the voltage dial. Keep in mind that higher voltage VV devices use either linear or boost type drivers. Either will require more batteries or more battery capacity and adversely limit operating time and portability.

 

[John D in CT]

I'm guessing that 80% of those with a serious smoking habit (pack or more a day) can quit comfortably with a regulated single voltage 3.7V APV and they can remain satisfied with the same equipment indefinitely.

Success in quitting cigarettes and staying quit requires more than Variable Voltage.

VV is great if you don't want to experiment with attys or cartos of different resistance values. Just purchase a standard resistance atty or carto and turn the voltage dial. Keep in mind that higher voltage VV devices use either linear or boost type drivers. Either will require more batteries or more battery capacity that will adversely limit operating time and portability.

In that case, I'll guess that the figure would be higher than 80% with variable voltage. I can't imagine why it would be lower, and I find it very unlikely that the success rate would stay exactly the same.

As for "success in quitting cigarettes and staying quit requires more than Variable Voltage"; the motivation for the expression of that self-evident observation escapes me.

This brings me squarely back to my main question; what is the compelling reason or reasons for recommending a fixed voltage device over a variable voltage device to someone just starting out?

I will now expand the question to include the e-Power.

And again, I'd appreciate it if we could leave the "Volt" or other ciggie-look-alikes out of the discussion.

 

[yzer]

The Volt must remain in the discussion and in consideration for a first PV. I know at least one person who quit with a Volt as a first PV and is still using it after several months without smoking.

Variable voltage APVs offer less battery life per size than single voltage 3.7V APVs. Portability is a valuable asset for any APV.

There is no compelling reason to recommend a variable voltage APV over a regulated single voltage APV for the prospective owner of a first PV. However, the advantages of portability and the cost and ease of battery recharging must be considered.

As far as E-Power 14650 goes: it has a 1000mAh battery that lasts quite a while, it's very portable and the batteries cost a fraction of what a proprietary battery/battery tube/switch/electronics combo will cost. E-Power 14650 uses a protected Li-ion (ICR) battery that has the same capacity as some other APVs: like some eGos and the kGo. However, it lacks the higher drain LiPo battery of kGo and some others which may offer better performance with LR dual coil cartos.