Kanger subtank TSCs

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dr g

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They do work fine over 500F, but if I have it set to 540F and that is the average, wouldn't you think the legs would be close to if not over 600F?

it might, but unless it does something, it doesn't matter, does it? the graphitization supposedly happens at 800F-1200F, and it can't be getting that hot or the insulators would start melting. but even if it did embrittle, if the coil doesn't break, it's moot ... which is sort of the point of prebuilt heads, you don't have to mess with them.

The 600 degree operating limit recommendation takes into account an appropriate margin that encompasses this differential ... and since the boards are programmed to run at 600 or below it's fine.

Bottom line is I think your coils are working properly and I'd hate to see you write them off when you could be enjoying them. Try pushing the pin in and adjusting the feed via the pin poke method. You might get the temp lower.
 
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BNEAT

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Nope Ni200 is ANSI rated for service up to 600F in boilers and pressure vessels.
fixed I totally misunderstood what you were trying to say.

There's theory, and there's practice. OCC coils work fine at over 500F average. they just do. they don't "break down." the exposed legs don't reach 800F which would melt the insulators. ni200 only embrittles when dry burned or with real hot (glowing) legs. even if they did the only concern would be coil failure. but ni201 might be good to try.
You have absolutely no way of knowing what the temperature of the legs are in this situation or what is happening to them metallurgically.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but kanthal coils graphitize in use due to high temperatures and eventually embrittle because of it.
Seriously? Are you just making stuff up as you go? A1 Kanthal doesn't oxidize until 2550F, which is it's max continuous operating temperature, and it doesn't melt until 2730F. I think it's safe to say that is no where near the operating temperature of an ecig coil, even one with hot legs. I'm not sure why you brought Kanthal up, but I'll take advantage of the opportunity to tell you you're wrong.

it might, but unless it does something, it doesn't matter, does it? the graphitization supposedly happens at 800F-1200F, and it can't be getting that hot or the insulators would start melting. but even if it did embrittle, if the coil doesn't break, it's moot ... which is sort of the point of prebuilt heads, you don't have to mess with them.

The 600 degree operating limit recommendation takes into account an appropriate margin that encompasses this differential ... and since the boards are programmed to run at 600 or below it's fine.
Are you kidding me? There is no "appropriate margin", and it's not a recommendation. 600F is the known temperature where things start to happen in Ni200. It's not some theory, it's scientific fact. And where did you get 800-1200? That's not accurate. Things do start to happen at 600 degrees, just not what I originally thought. Ni200 starts to "creep" at 600 degrees, which is a structural concern, but most likely is of no concern for our application except possibly explaining why coils seem to relax, and move around during use.

I have 3 heat treat furnaces in my shop that are used on a daily basis. We don't guess at an approximate temperature for anything, and the information supplied by the steel manufacturer is not a recommendation. We don't use temperatures provided by one steel manufacturer when working with the same material from another manufacturer. At 2,000F, 25 degrees either way can spell disaster with extremely expensive consequences.

Personally, I don't really care if my Ni200 corrodes a little. After spending most of my life in a Tool & Die shop, I literally have metal in my blood, so what's a little more going to hurt. I dry burn my coils regularly no matter which material they're made of. I'm betting it's still safer than smoking.

BUT, I would never recommend someone else do it, or talk like I know what I'm saying and downplay the possible health risks involved with any of the things we are dealing with. The goal of TC in vaping is to make it safer. If we have a product like these where the temperature is no where near what we think it should be, then how can anyone say it's safer? How can we assume what those hot legs are doing to our juice? How can we assume we even have hot legs at all?
 
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Woofer

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Are you kidding me? There is no "appropriate margin", and it's not a recommendation. 600F is the known temperature where things start to happen in Ni200. It's not some theory, it's scientific fact. And where did you get 800-1200? That's not accurate.

600F is exactly where Ni200 starts to "creep" significantly

Again Ni200 is ANSI rated for service up to 600F in boilers and pressure vessels.
 

dr g

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Seriously? Are you just making stuff up as you go? A1 Kanthal doesn't oxidize until 2550F, which is it's max continuous operating temperature, and it doesn't melt until 2730F. I think it's safe to say that is no where near the operating temperature of an ecig coil, even one with hot legs. I'm not sure why you brought Kanthal up, but I'll take advantage of the opportunity to tell you you're wrong.

Graphitization is neither oxidation nor melting. Isn't that why you brought it up with regard to Ni200? It does't melt until similar temperatures.

Are you kidding me? There is no "appropriate margin", and it's not a recommendation. 600F is the known temperature where things start to happen in Ni200. It's not some theory, it's scientific fact. And where did you get 800-1200? That's not accurate.

http://www.ulbrich.com/nickel-200/

Nickel 200 is not recommended for service above 600°F (316°C) because long-time exposures in the 800°F to 1200°F range result in precipitation of a carbon containing phase and loss of ductility.

So it's as accurate as the documents people are using to drum up this false line of attack. Graphitzation of steel happens at similar temperatures.

BTW the 600 degree limit refers to structural uses of the alloy such as pressure vessels. As a heating wire (our application) it can operate up to or a bit over 1000 degrees.
 
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Well I've had my Vaporshark for almost three weeks now and I am enjoying it quite a bit.

I have experienced issues, but so far they are the result of the nickel OCC coils or just getting past learning to build with Nickel.

In my experience, these coils need to be re-worked, these coils are the only ones that give me the "refinment issue".

If I build the RBA section of the mini, I don't get it. If I put them in the nano, it is much less of an issue for what ever reason, but does happen on occaision.

So I will stop using these coils in anything except the Nano tank, which is to small for my vaping anyway.

So far I have built nickel builds in the Subtank mini, Veritas RDA, Derringer RDA, and Freakshow RDA, and none of them exprience the "refinement issue".

So I am chocking this one up to Kangertech's coils, guess I will have to continue to rebuild for now, perhaps Aspire can get it right for us with the nickel Atlantis coils...

The DNA 40 has worked rather flawlessly except when I use Kangertech OCC coils. That is the only time I experience the "refinement issue".

I'm using the Nautilus nickel coils, and I turned the temp up to 490, I'm having no problem and can use every last drop of juice in the tank. When the flavor is gone, I refill. No burnt taste, no refinement.
 

BNEAT

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There is Carbon in Ni200, not much, but it's there. Also, 600F is exactly where Ni200 starts to "creep" significantly. More importantly, that's where graphitization occurs. I'm not saying that's why Evolv choose 600, but I have a strong feeling that's why these coils are behaving the way they are.

edit: (it was to late to edit the original post)
The 600 degree Creep temperature is of no concern for our application.
 

Confuzzled1969

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I'm using the Nautilus nickel coils, and I turned the temp up to 490, I'm having no problem and can use every last drop of juice in the tank. When the flavor is gone, I refill. No burnt taste, no refinement.

I am still running into some issues with the Kangertech coils, but removeing the tank and pushing the center pin of the 510 helps a lot....

The nautilus tanks don't have enough airflow for my vaping, but I am hearing the Atlantis coils are in the making...
 

retird

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Just saying.....

After about 4 5-packs of Kanger nickel I ran into one coil that worked for a short period and then exhibited reduced vapor and hit temp limit quickly. Refinement was normal at .02 ohms. I looked at the coil and wicking and it seemed that the wicking material was packed tighter and there was more of it. I took a pointed toothpick and poked it thru the wicking holes into the center of the coil. Then I turned up the temperature by 20F and all is well again. No more reduced vapor/flavor and refinement still at .02 ohms below stated ohm rating of 0.15 and now it is at 0.13 ohms.

This seems to follow what a few have said about fixing wicking issues and just turning up the temperature.... just passing along my first issue with a coil out of 18 I've used....
 
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MikeA5

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I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I've read every post so far and enjoyed the read and knowledge I've gained from the experience of what many of you had when using the subtank (Mini & Nano) with the NI200 coils. I hope to apply this knowledge when I receive my Kanger subtanks (Mini & Nano) in the very near future. I will be using them with the SX mini m though (also will be getting in the near future). This will be my first go at TC so I'm a complete newbie. I'll keep you posted on what my experience will be.
I just wanted to let you guys know that the discussions that you are having are appreciated by me and most likely others who are just starting out using TC.
Thank you again. Now back to the normal channel discussions.
 

TheotherSteveS

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I may have experienced this as well. I had two out of five heads that either had hot legs or had this kind of short. The resistance before firing was normal .15+-.01 . Upon inspection, the nickel of one of the legs was blackened.

I agree with you however that the DNA40 chip itself works well. I absolutely love temperature control on every one of my attys with the sole exception of the subtank mini with prebuilt heads. If i use the RBA section, which I do a lot, the vape is perfect. Must be the TSCs.

Hi Squag,

what setting (W and Temp) you use for the RBA in STM?? Im have a .... load of trouble :(
 

squag

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Hi Squag, what setting (W and Temp) you use for the RBA in STM?? Im have a .... load of trouble :(
My standard build on the STM RBA is a 7/6 wrap, 30g with a 3.5 mm diameter, which comes out at .16 or .17 Ohms. It's not a high power build. I keep it under 15W for the most part. With the PG juices I have been using, the temp is between 350 and 400 degrees. I like it on the cool side. For connection stability and proper Ohm reading, I've found it is essential to crank down the the center pin of the RBA section. Sticking a small rod or screwdriver through the airholes works well. Good luck.

Edit:One last thing. 30g is not captured all that well using just one side of the deck screw. I find it much better to wrap the screws and then tighten as much as possible. ( More info than you asked for, I know, but I thought I'd just get it out there )
 
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TheotherSteveS

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My standard build on the STM RBA is a 7/6 wrap, 30g with a 3.5 mm diameter, which comes out at .16 or .17 Ohms. It's not a high power build. I keep it under 15W for the most part. With the PG juices I have been using, the temp is between 350 and 400 degrees. I like it on the cool side. For connection stability and proper Ohm reading, I've found it is essential to crank down the the center pin of the RBA section. Sticking a small rod or screwdriver through the airholes works well. Good luck.

Edit:One last thing. 30g is not captured all that well using just one side of the deck screw. I find it much better to wrap the screws and then tighten as much as possible. ( More info than you asked for, I know, but I thought I'd just get it out there )

not more info at all. That is great advice.I had noticed the issue with cranking down the RBA centre pin. I think Ive got it down now but it been a PITA compared to my dripper builds so far. Ive noticed a god test if everything is tight is to screw down the base progressivley harder on my meter. If the resistance starts changing as you screw it in, it won't work! Probably true for any build now i think of it but seems to be a good predictor of success!

Thanks again

steve
 

TheotherSteveS

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Time to resurrect this thread. So I eventually got around to breaking out my Ni OCCs and plugged one into the nano. Primed, juiced it up, let it site in the tank atop the sx mini for a few minutes and checked resistance...0.27ohms!! Then it started bouncing around. Ddidnt matter what I did, tightened evrything, tried a different nano even. Still screwed. Ok, so I got out another one. Onto the SX and readinh 0.117ohms but its at least rock solid there (reads 0.13 on DNA40 though but there could be some difference in rounding otf the 3rd decimal. Anyway, Im haveing to fire this thing at 25-30J at 480F to get even a half decent vape. It is a very, very cool vape to my mind but psycologically I dont want to fire it at 500F or above. Why is a coil supposed to be at 0.16 reading that low?? Has anyone else seen this??

the other thing is the temp seems to settle at around 500F even when set to 480. Its not a transient spike, it really homes in on 500F. Checked with the mini/RBA deck which is still a solid 0.19 ohms which it has been for the last week, set to 420 and its stays a 420 or just a tad below.

What the hell is going on?!?!
 
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retird

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Just saying.....

After about 4 5-packs of Kanger nickel I ran into one coil that worked for a short period and then exhibited reduced vapor and hit temp limit quickly. Refinement was normal at .02 ohms. I looked at the coil and wicking and it seemed that the wicking material was packed tighter and there was more of it. I took a pointed toothpick and poked it thru the wicking holes into the center of the coil. Then I turned up the temperature by 20F and all is well again. No more reduced vapor/flavor and refinement still at .02 ohms below stated ohm rating of 0.15 and now it is at 0.13 ohms.

This seems to follow what a few have said about fixing wicking issues and just turning up the temperature.... just passing along my first issue with a coil out of 18 I've used....

Time to resurrect this thread. So I eventually got around to breaking out my Ni OCCs and plugged one into the nano. Primed, juiced it up, let it site in the tank atop the sx mini for a few minutes and checked resistance...0.27ohms!! Then it started bouncing around. Ddidnt matter what I did, tightened evrything, tried a different nano even. Still screwed. Ok, so I got out another one. Onto the SX and readinh 0.117ohms but its at least rock solid there (reads 0.13 on DNA40 though but there could be some difference in rounding otf the 3rd decimal. Anyway, Im haveing to fire this thing at 25-30J at 480F to get even a half decent vape. It is a very, very cool vape to my mind but psycologically I dont want to fire it at 500F or above. Why is a coil supposed to be at 0.16 reading that low?? Has anyone else seen this??

the other thing is the temp seems to settle at around 500F even when set to 480. Its not a transient spike, it really homes in on 500F. Checked with the mini/RBA deck which is still a solid 0.19 ohms which it has been for the last week, set to 420 and its stays a 420 or just a tad below.

What the hell is going on?!?!

Only had one coil act out of normal and I quoted above what I saw... hope ya get it sorted out....your comments are similar to ones I read about the coil plugged into the ST and ST mini....
 

TheotherSteveS

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Thanks retird! Didnt think ther's much to say about it beyond what has been posted. Both coils did the same on on two different nano bases so Ive no clue what is going on. I will try on mini later I guess, or just try another coil...I guess what is confusing me the most is the fact that the 2nd one is stable - reads 0.117 (SX rounds down to 0.11 on main display) and 0.13 on chiNA40 VF. Seems like a stock 0.15ohm rated coil shouldnt be that low in the first place. Anyway both mods are stable at that resistnace (no refinement of course ;) ). It vapes ok on both but I really have to crank up the T to get any taste at all although the vapour production isnt too bad, not great but not awful..Its very strange indeed!
 
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