Lament of a former vaper

[DC2]

It seems to me like 90% of this website is devoted to people still trying to get their e-cig to work properly. I mean - maybe I am way off here - but I still just see terrible products and thousands of people who are desperately trying to make them work! What's going on here?

I think almost everyone here, once they get past the learning curve, has their electronic cigarette working properly. What you mostly see going on outside the New Members forum is more about people searching for the perfect vaping experience than it is about getting them to work properly.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CONSISTENT vape.

Incorrect, since my 510 vapes consistently ALL the time, as long as I use it correctly.

 

[DC2]

Mmm'kay... didn't realize this forum was editing our content automatically either. I guess I used some language in the previous post which was deemed un-printable (...). Unprintable? ON THE INTERNET?? Alright - this isn't the forum I recalled in more ways than one. I'm done here, have fun with the censorship, everyone!

You miss the freedom to offend others by cussing freely and openly?
REALLY?

 

[Sar]

If I had to buy analogs, I'd pay between $10-$12 a pack here. Most of that is taxes. I think it is immoral for the government to profiteer from people's addiction and don't want to have part in it. Even if I didn't save any money with PVs, it would still be worth the trouble.

But I do understand the frustration.

However, do not underestimate the guys that are creating mods in their basements. Some of the most innovative products started in someones garage or basement -- I am sure we all could list a few of those. The real innovation sometimes comes from the most humble places.

 

[Oliver]

Hey Travis!

Good to see you bud - I remember you from the old days....

I've got to say that I kinda agree with you about the technology, although some of the new batteries do knock the socks off what we used to vape with. The 510 was a revelation to me, although I do prefer the KR8 these days. Some of the commercially available mods are great as well.

I think this year will be the year of new and improved products so stick around!

Take care,

SJ

 

[Hudsonkm]

If I had to buy analogs, I'd pay between $10-$12 a pack here. Most of that is taxes. I think it is immoral for the government to profiteer from people's addiction and don't want to have part in it. Even if I didn't save any money with PVs, it would still be worth the trouble.

But I do understand the frustration.

However, do not underestimate the guys that are creating mods in their basements. Some of the most innovative products started in someones garage or basement -- I am sure we all could list a few of those. The real innovation sometimes comes from the most humble places.

Damn and I thought Chicago was bad at around 8 bucks a pack.

2 of those dollars are city tax.

And they didnt do it to us gradually. One year they suddenly went up by a dollar a pack, and the next the same thing. Each with no warning.

 

[Sar]

Damn and I thought Chicago was bad at around 8 bucks a pack.

2 of those dollars are city tax.

And they didnt do it to us gradually. One year they suddenly went up by a dollar a pack, and the next the same thing. Each with no warning.

The one benefit is that it makes it much easier to buy PV supplies. I used to smoke 1.5-2 packs a day -- that would be about $500 a month at least. Even if I purchased the latest new PV mod every month I still wouldn't spend anywhere near that for vaping.

 

[Kilroy]

Look, no one can make your choices for you. Enjoy your choice.

 

[VapingRulz]

But that brings me to the crux of my post. What's blown me away after re-visiting this site is not how popular vaping has become, or how much cheaper the hardware is - but rather, how little the technology has progressed from a mass-market standpoint. It seems to me like 90% of this website is devoted to people still trying to get their e-cig to work properly. I mean - maybe I am way off here - but I still just see terrible products and thousands of people who are desperately trying to make them work! What's going on here?

I get your point and it's a good one. There are some models that make all of the fussing and modding unecessary, namely, the KR808D-1's. Specifically, the Vapor King from Vapor4Life. You should try it out. It got me off a 37+ 1-2 pack-a-day cigarette habit from my first vape.

I'll probably never buy another e-cig in my life unless I'm 100% certain that I won't have to constantly be ....ing with my device every day to make it work consistently. I smoke analogs to relieve stress, ya know? Vaping, at this point, seems counter-intuitive.

I'm also surprised that the e-cig technology has been relatively slow to upgrade, especially in comparison to other technological advances that we see every day. I suspect that the real reason is: uncertainty. Who will devote the necessary resources (R&D) to a vaping product if they are afraid that Big Tobacco and Big Pharma will collude and to squash it? It's not as if Big Government is on the side of the e-cig. The opposite seems to be true, in fact. Vaping doesn't pay the bills - it depletes the coffers.

I suspect that the vaping/e-cig movement is going to gain grassroots support, which will in turn get the attention of influential policy-making people who have no financial interest in squashing e-cigs (doctors, for example), who will in turn influence decision-makers. Unfortunately, it's all moving too slowly. While we crawl, the tobacco and pharma lobbyists are sprinting to cut us off at the pass. So far, they appear to be winning - but the race isn't over yet.

The more smokers who are converted to e-cigs, and the quicker it goes viral, the better our chances of influencing public policy in our favor.

I see too many people getting caught up in the Us-vs-Them thing (510 vs VK vs Mods, for example) and not looking at the Big Picture. We are all US.

 

[DC2]

I'm also surprised that the e-cig technology has been relatively slow to upgrade, especially in comparison to other technological advances that we see every day. I suspect that the real reason is: uncertainty. Who will devote the necessary resources (R&D) to a vaping product if they are afraid that Big Tobacco and Big Pharma will collude and to squash it? It's not as if Big Government is on the side of the e-cig. The opposite seems to be true, in fact. Vaping doesn't pay the bills - it depletes the coffers.

I suspect that the vaping/e-cig movement is going to gain grassroots support, which will in turn get the attention of influential policy-making people who have no financial interest in squashing e-cigs (doctors, for example), who will in turn influence decision-makers. Unfortunately, it's all moving too slowly. While we crawl, the tobacco and pharma lobbyists are sprinting to cut us off at the pass. So far, they appear to be winning - but the race isn't over yet.

The more smokers who are converted to e-cigs, and the quicker it goes viral, the better our chances of influencing public policy in our favor.

This post gets huge bonus points for truthiness.

 

[beast775]

well being new to this and seeing the basement tech vapors and there marvelous machines,im very excited because i can see they have done it.consistant vapor,these machines are big and goofy but being hooked up to a breathing tube and heart monitors dying is far worse in my opinion.plus i would rather buy something from joe schmo down the road.talk about a bad word-GOVERNMENT-thats enough for me.i understand i really do.

 

[cassavetes]

Wait, what just happened...

 

[umop apisdn]

I mean - you would never see a website with 4000 users banding together to modify a vacuum cleaner that didn't work, would you? .

Quote of the decade my friend, quote of the mother ...ing decade.

Thank you for making my day!

But you're right, the technology isn't advanced as many would like it. But be sure that the mods such as the Chuck, solve the battery problem completely, but add on a minor inconvenience of something the size of a cellphone in your pocket. Also, many vapers have taken on dripping as a way to solve the problems with carts. The blue foam isn't something we're smoking, it's actually really resilient, look at how constant it has to deal with the filter of a fish tank, the fish would surely die from that if it was that dangerous.

Trust me, I'm more than willing to put my future degree to work on these devices. I'm not in MIT, but I'm still going for Electrical Engineering. This is a niche that can surely be improved on, but the problem right now is funding. Put that sale pitch you have to work, not on selling these, but selling them to investors, and we'll be in business.

 

[Deena]

What a fascinating conversation! Anyway, I am new to vaping but actually enjoy it for many of the reasons the OP critiqued it.

And when I think about all the modifications that are going here - it just frustrates me even more. I mean - you would never see a website with 4000 users banding together to modify a vacuum cleaner that didn't work, would you? There's something just ridiculous about it all...

About the technology - particularly modifications: I don't believe the e-cig is unique for modifications or that it represents an inherent problem with the technology. Modifications simply increase the functionality or, in some cases, the aesthetics of the technology. But, isn't most technology modified by users? I'm not suggesting that all users do mods; just that modification is a normal part of using most, if not all, technology. For example, I have a jailbroken Iphone, I know several people who have modded their Xboxes, laptops, and desktops, and I have added things to my laptop to increase functionality - namely an external hard drive, but most people don't categorically rejects these technologies just because they can be/are modified. A big corporation would not make a great product. There's no money in it (look what happened to the electric car). Planned obsolescence is too important. In addition, I like the fact that so many people are assuming responsibility for the product. It kind of has a counterculture feel.

]but part of me is like, just not willing to spend 2 hours a day fucing around with my PV, when I can just throw a pack of analogs in my pocket in the morning and be done with it.

Like many people on here, I smoked for twenty+ years and recently quit completely because of the PV. It is time consuming, but like others, I don't know that it's any more time consuming than analogs: getting out a lighter, lighting it, re-lighting it because it's gone out, buying cigs, making sure you have your cigs, figuring out when/where you smoke....In fact,I think that the time wasted on PVs is more useful than the time wasted on analogs. I have to prepare my PV(s) everyday, but in doing so, I have to decide how much juice I will need, how much nicotine I should consume, etc. I think having to put thought and action into this is another unintended positive of vaping. It's kind of like someone choosing to eat more nutritionally by preparing their own food. The ingredients are in front of the person, so they're thinking about what to eat and how to prepare it. No so much when one is eating fast food.

Another issue for me is that with vaping, I don't feel the need to empty the cart each time I need my nicotine fix. When I smoked, I made sure to finish each cig. They were too expensive to waste. Sometimes I get into marathon session where I vape constantly, in other cases, I simply need a drag or two. That has to be healthier.

Sorry for the long reply. But the topic was too interesting to pass up

 

[DC2]

Sorry for the long reply. But the topic was too interesting to pass up.

For my reading pleasure, whatever that is worth, it was well worth the effort you put into it.
Interesting insight and very good analogies.


I think smokers are smarter, in general, than the average population.
Someday maybe someone will look into why that is.

 

[Kurt]

Welcome back travis! Hope you find the positive here, as there is a lot of it. I agree with the others in this thread that a quality 2-piece may work for you.

Me, I'm a chemist by profession. It is a rare pleasure when a technology comes along that has the potential to help so many, and is also something that us McGuyver types can get our hands dirty with. I personally find it exciting that this technology is so new and so able to be modified by anyone with some tools and the will to make it better. I absolutely love the McGuyver stuff, and the fact that vaping is all new chemistry!

The 510 did take quite some time to make work well for me, but now I spend very little time tinkering with it, and my ZFM carts give excellent vapage all day every day, non-stop. Your problems with the stock cart filler is spot on with what I found. I like making things work, and with some learning and several failed attempts, my 510 works really well for me now. Certainly didn't in the beginning.

Maybe vacuum cleaners don't make this kind of following, but I am also involved with vintage vacuum tube stereo electronics. You wouldn't believe the things people do to make their stereos sound better and better. Why? Because music is an obsession, and a stereo that can recreate the real performance is a beautiful thing, and making your gear do that is a journey that is fun and very rewarding. In many ways this forum reminds me of the tube audiophile DIY forums I've been involved with. And the best sounding tubes generally came from Germany, not the US. Now its China. Funny that.

With analogs I had very little control over the way I was consuming nicotine, and how they were making me feel sick and awful. I was paying through the nose to maintain a habit, and that was money going to the govt, BT and eventually BP, which I believe wants us to get cancer because cancer is one of the biggest money makers on the planet, besides war. If a huge corporation or the govt told me they had the perfect PV, and vaping will be perfect now and always forever and ever, I would run away! I happen to like it that this is still a cottage industry, with fantastic and caring people selling these devices, and there is much room for tinkering by the consumer to make them even better. That's good!! The more I can do with my hands to make my vaping better, the more control I have, and the less control the powers that be have!

I also believe that due to this crazy forum, the quality and variety of PVs has skyrocketed, even in the four months I've been vaping and a member. And the basement and garage modders and sellers still live and die by the reviews and comments here. Enough complaints, and products improve or sales drop. They must produce a quality product. I don't want to be able to buy a Chuck from a 7-11, because that Chuck will be a piece of crap, like everything else sold at 7-11. Nor do I want to be able to buy nic-juice there...I want to buy from the guy busting his hump to make me happy. And I want to be able to tell everyone here how happy I am, so that guy can feed his family busting his hump to make more people happy. There is so little of that in the commercial world of the US today, and almost none in the world of nicotine consumption...until now.

It used to be, back in the early 80s, not so long ago, that if I wanted my 128 KByte PC to do something special, I had to buy a computer magazine and type in a program, debug it, run it, crash it, debug some more, and finally get it running properly, in less than 100 KB, since DOS was about 30 KB. We were so thrilled that we could actually see what we typed on a screen!! And when we didn't have to save data and programs to cassette tape, and could use floppies, wow, that was heaven.

And how did that PC stuff get started? A couple of losers named Jobs and Wozniac tinkering in their garage and selling some pasted together toy they called the Apple to anyone that would buy it...and there weren't many at first. At first.

Welcome to the cutting edge. Full of frustrations and setbacks and failed technologies, which some of us find to be deliciously challenging and rewarding to solve. And which some just find to be frustrating and failed. There will always be those that sit back and expect perfection and convenience to be handed to them. And there will also always be those that go through the exquisite toil to try to create just that, knowing they never will completely, nor does it matter, because the journey is so worth it.

Your concerns and observations of PVs and the industry in 2010 are completely valid and I agree with all of them. How you choose to deal with those concerns is up to you. But however you chose to deal, don't worry, you will always be in plenty of good company. I prefer the world of imperfection, as it gives me something to do.

 

[DC2]

Kurt, I'm glad I'm posting right after you so I don't have to quote that entire post just to say this... though you are relatively new here, you are one of my favorite posters.

 

[kr808d1]

I have been using an E-cig for about a month now . not saying I am an expert but it really it is not rocket science travis . get yourself a kr808d-1 from vapor4life and have a good time or smoke your cigs and wait till it gets better , myself i like not smelling like an ashtray and other numerous benefits from vaping . i feel great not smoking . i am also very impressed that after tryin vaping i do not even want a cig at all or for that matter want to be around a stinky smoker. in short you either get it or you don't but laziness never rewarded anyone .

 

[Pav]

One more vote for the KR808D (Vapor King from V4L here) 2 piece model. I felt much the same way you did and was about to drop vaping due to the hassle until I got the Vapor King.

Heck, my band plays in the Detroit area. If you come out to one of our shows I'll bring a new unused cartomizer and let you try it out. It's really a big difference from the 3 piece models.

Just PM if you're interested and I'll let you know where and when the next show is. Probably not until sometime in Feb.

 

[Ronster]

I didn't read this whole thread, but judging by the OP's original post, I must of got real real lucky choosing Vap4life as my first.

I haven't found anything difficult whatsoever.

Now, I haven't been at this very long at all, but so far, so good. I have no complaints at all.

Nothing but positive things to say.

Lemme tell you, nobody on this planet could of convinced me that if I tried these I would be down to two analogs a day in two days, but that's what happened.
Now, I try an analog and it tastes like...well...like crap and I run back to my lithium powered deliverer of tasty vapor.

When I tell you I'm a hardcore smoker, let's just say there are few people out there with the resolve I have to KEEP smoking and yet...here I am amazed, blown away, grateful and thankful all at once.

Oh and to all you smoking nazi's out there in the RW, you can kiss my vapor lovin azz.

 

[acezzz]

Travis is obviously very mechanically ......ed. Even my wife has figured out how to operate eigs without too much trouble. No offense intended to the ladies.