- Status
Post #87 has a plazma test showing an active vaper's results.
To my knowledge no one has done repeated testing over any long length of time showing any vaping interuptions, resuming, etc. So to answer your question, probably no.
Would be interesting to see, expensive to do for an individual.
heh this stuff gets complicated. You know what my biggest problem is with studies and statistics? It always depends on who really is funding them. They are experts at looking at certain things or using studies and statistics to convey a certain point. It is really hard to find unbiased studies these days. If you get some anti tobacco/ecig nazi funding a study, they will make ecigs look like the most dangerous thing int he world.
That's the point! It accumulates and you have a fairly stable blood-nicotine level throughout the day because of vaping. With analogs you have huge peaks and valleys (highs & lows) which causes you to smoke more which leads to cancer, heart disease, lung disease, and many other illnesses. E-cigs deliver nicotine gradually. There are no ups and downs associated with vaping, unlike analog cigarettes. You don't experience the intense mood swings or increased irritability that analog cigarettes cause. As you vape you can taper off your nicotine use. You can start out at 36mg or 24mg and then gradually reduce nicotine consumption by using 18mg or 12mg cartomizers or totally eliminate the nicotine completely if you so choose. If you vape you don't have to worry about dying from cancer or stinking like an ashtray. It's common sense; analog cigarettes are filled with thousands of chemicals, the nicotine is enhanced through ammonia chemistry (like crack co-caine!) and you're inhaling combusted materials that are proven carcinogens. If you vape you're inhaling 99% water vapor, a little flavoring (food grade and considered safe) and nicotine.
-Laz.
-Laz.
Yeah but with all the large spikes with cigarettes a heavy cigarette smoker, a pack a day or more is having a pretty consistent nicotine intake i bet, regardless of the spikes.
Like with snus they said the blood nicotine levels throughout the day are basically the same for cigarette smokers and snus users alike.. regardless that it is a slower buildup. I think you are going to use it in a way to make u feel satisfied and compensate. That is why everyone usually says they vape ALOT more than they used to smoke. If you are trying to reach the same point, to feel satisfied, what really is the difference anyway. either you have a cigarette every 10 to 20 minutes because YOU NEED one. Or you vape continously throughout the day, I think most people are looking to feel satisfied. And i think that quick jolt of quick hitting nicotine is an element that some people crave. So I think thats the first battle people have to get past first. I have tried everything, nothing truly satisfies like a cigarette for me. unfortunately. They got me by the balls.
Like with snus they said the blood nicotine levels throughout the day are basically the same for cigarette smokers and snus users alike.. regardless that it is a slower buildup. I think you are going to use it in a way to make u feel satisfied and compensate. That is why everyone usually says they vape ALOT more than they used to smoke. If you are trying to reach the same point, to feel satisfied, what really is the difference anyway. either you have a cigarette every 10 to 20 minutes because YOU NEED one. Or you vape continously throughout the day, I think most people are looking to feel satisfied. And i think that quick jolt of quick hitting nicotine is an element that some people crave. So I think thats the first battle people have to get past first. I have tried everything, nothing truly satisfies like a cigarette for me. unfortunately. They got me by the balls.
I've noticed my morning vaping sessions can last awhile, even though I'm down to 6mg use. After that it's better, I forget where I put my PV last. Which is amusing, in a twisted way! I would have never left my cigarettes somewhere in a casual moment. I always knew where my fix was!!
Hey Pal,
I guess it depends on the person and the mental aspect. I found myself vaping like crazy three weeks ago whereas now I'm starting to slow down. I'm not doubting that analogs deliver a consistent dose of nicotine (while you're actually smoking them) only that it disappears quickly, leading you to smoke another cigarette (which is damaging your heart and lungs and slowly killing you) within a relatively short period of time (because of the nicotine dissipating within your bloodstream so quickly or because the immediate rush of analogs leave you craving for more). Most of us have been smoking for many years, even decades. We're used to the mental and physical aspect of smoking (the physical and mental habit). Nothing is going to replace that completely. You have to be open to quitting in order to quit, you have to want to quit. Cigarettes have you by the balls because you've given in mentally. If you want to quit badly enough vaping will get you there. It's not about getting that rush and feeling satisfied it's about breaking the habit so you can live. Vaping helps immensely in this area, even if it falls short of producing the exact same feeling as smoking an analog. It's a tool to get you where you need to be.
Yup, I agree (first battle). Nothing will completely take the place of an analog cigarette, I agree. You've got yourself by the balls. The mental aspect is the tough part. If you're determined to stop smoking you can do it cold turkey. Luckily there's no reason to go through that sort of mental anguish since we can vape without doing further damage to ourselves. I hope everything eventually works out for you brother.
-Laz.
I guess it depends on the person and the mental aspect. I found myself vaping like crazy three weeks ago whereas now I'm starting to slow down. I'm not doubting that analogs deliver a consistent dose of nicotine (while you're actually smoking them) only that it disappears quickly, leading you to smoke another cigarette (which is damaging your heart and lungs and slowly killing you) within a relatively short period of time (because of the nicotine dissipating within your bloodstream so quickly or because the immediate rush of analogs leave you craving for more). Most of us have been smoking for many years, even decades. We're used to the mental and physical aspect of smoking (the physical and mental habit). Nothing is going to replace that completely. You have to be open to quitting in order to quit, you have to want to quit. Cigarettes have you by the balls because you've given in mentally. If you want to quit badly enough vaping will get you there. It's not about getting that rush and feeling satisfied it's about breaking the habit so you can live. Vaping helps immensely in this area, even if it falls short of producing the exact same feeling as smoking an analog. It's a tool to get you where you need to be.
Yup, I agree (first battle). Nothing will completely take the place of an analog cigarette, I agree. You've got yourself by the balls. The mental aspect is the tough part. If you're determined to stop smoking you can do it cold turkey. Luckily there's no reason to go through that sort of mental anguish since we can vape without doing further damage to ourselves. I hope everything eventually works out for you brother.
-Laz.
I was a very lucky person, probably out of ignorance, because my worst withdrawal was an appetite that could eat my car truck and lots if high energy. So I locked the fridge and used my energy to get back to work, it felt so good not to be coughing my head off and feeling like crap all the time.
That 'flighty' feeling lasted a couple months, but went away nicely after that. Your body does go through some enormous changes.
Watch your diet, stay away from carbs, sugar, and white flour and go to lots of fresh veg's and fruits, enormous amounts of water and high antioxident juices, cranberry, orange, green tea. The better you hydrate yourself and the better you keep your innards bulked up the better for healing fast. And get moving, power walking, biking, what ever, breath deep exercises.
I stopped cigarettes from day one. After 44 years that was a marvel!
That 'flighty' feeling lasted a couple months, but went away nicely after that. Your body does go through some enormous changes.
Watch your diet, stay away from carbs, sugar, and white flour and go to lots of fresh veg's and fruits, enormous amounts of water and high antioxident juices, cranberry, orange, green tea. The better you hydrate yourself and the better you keep your innards bulked up the better for healing fast. And get moving, power walking, biking, what ever, breath deep exercises.
I stopped cigarettes from day one. After 44 years that was a marvel!
Last edited:
Its funny though, If it wasnt for this forum, I would think ecigs were completely useless for quitting smoking. I say that because all the people I know in real life ended up failing with the ecig. But than again all of them were using the smoke51 that I know of.
I guess its an individualistic type of thing. I believe everyone is hooked at different levels. Some can smoke a pack a day for a week and not touch it again for months. Others are like heroine addicts. Yet others might smoke half a pack or less a day and consider themselves a heavy smoker.
about being less addicted to vaping. Well maybe we are not getting the same nicotine, or we are weening ourselves off of it without realizing. Thats probably why people chain vape in the beginning than slow down, who knows. Maybe the body readjusts or something.
"If you want to quit badly enough vaping will get you there. It's not about getting that rush and feeling satisfied it's about breaking the habit so you can live."
Well in all fairness, I am sure those who have quit cold turkey would tell me the same thing about vaping. That if i really wanted to enough I wouldnt need to replace habits ya know? What would happen to you guys if ur shipment didnt come, or u ran out of juice one day. Would you be able to wait the time needed for a replacement or would u have a cigarette?
I guess its an individualistic type of thing. I believe everyone is hooked at different levels. Some can smoke a pack a day for a week and not touch it again for months. Others are like heroine addicts. Yet others might smoke half a pack or less a day and consider themselves a heavy smoker.
about being less addicted to vaping. Well maybe we are not getting the same nicotine, or we are weening ourselves off of it without realizing. Thats probably why people chain vape in the beginning than slow down, who knows. Maybe the body readjusts or something.
"If you want to quit badly enough vaping will get you there. It's not about getting that rush and feeling satisfied it's about breaking the habit so you can live."
Well in all fairness, I am sure those who have quit cold turkey would tell me the same thing about vaping. That if i really wanted to enough I wouldnt need to replace habits ya know? What would happen to you guys if ur shipment didnt come, or u ran out of juice one day. Would you be able to wait the time needed for a replacement or would u have a cigarette?
That's a major argument of anti's. You are trading one type of nicotine addiction for another; not acceptable, no matter your arguments.
The county two up from me is banning tobacco use by all employees, but the test used will be for cotinine. So the real ban is NICOTINE use. What many on this forum fail to adequately recognize is that e-smoking to the world is SMOKING. And the majority wants it stopped. Thus the new bans on employment and use on business properties. Anyone getting even feeble nicotine amounts from wimpy e-liquids will test positive as a tobacco user and cannot be employed by that county and its agencies.
Make all the arguments you want, but if the test of "tobacco" or "smoking" is for cotinine in the urine or saliva, that's a ban on e-smoking and e-smokers. And, no, Florida does not have unions and smokers get no sympathy anyhow.
BTW: Everyone I have introduced to e-cigarettes in my two years of use has failed to quit cigarettes. One who tried is now hospitalized, dying of heart and lung diseases at age 68. He had already lost a lung to cancer before this latest round. And he could never quit cigarettes for long, even using an e-cig. They are NOT the same for a majority of smokers.
The county two up from me is banning tobacco use by all employees, but the test used will be for cotinine. So the real ban is NICOTINE use. What many on this forum fail to adequately recognize is that e-smoking to the world is SMOKING. And the majority wants it stopped. Thus the new bans on employment and use on business properties. Anyone getting even feeble nicotine amounts from wimpy e-liquids will test positive as a tobacco user and cannot be employed by that county and its agencies.
Make all the arguments you want, but if the test of "tobacco" or "smoking" is for cotinine in the urine or saliva, that's a ban on e-smoking and e-smokers. And, no, Florida does not have unions and smokers get no sympathy anyhow.
BTW: Everyone I have introduced to e-cigarettes in my two years of use has failed to quit cigarettes. One who tried is now hospitalized, dying of heart and lung diseases at age 68. He had already lost a lung to cancer before this latest round. And he could never quit cigarettes for long, even using an e-cig. They are NOT the same for a majority of smokers.
I made a similar point as the anti's, but I do not put myself in their class at all. They are nazi's. They want to take our rights away as Americans. There is a ton of unhealthy things people choose to do probably far greater than the potential risks of nicotine itself. If ecigs can even help 10 percent of smokers than its worth it. 10 percent reduction in harm.
The anti tobacco nazis remind me of two movies/shows. V for vendetta, and the movie serenity/firefly. lol. for any of you familiar with either of those.
What I say is more like a question/warning of being so reliant on ecigs alone. I think what bob does is a great idea and use different products. If they ban ecigs than what. you still have the habit of puffing and inhaling, i think a lot of people might go back to smoking.
The anti tobacco nazis remind me of two movies/shows. V for vendetta, and the movie serenity/firefly. lol. for any of you familiar with either of those.
What I say is more like a question/warning of being so reliant on ecigs alone. I think what bob does is a great idea and use different products. If they ban ecigs than what. you still have the habit of puffing and inhaling, i think a lot of people might go back to smoking.
Be that as it may, in my view, any tool that helps some people quit and that isn't hurting anyone, needs to be kept available.
"Because maybe it isn't 100% guaranteed safe" is not a good reason, given the extreme health risk of continue smoking. "Don't put on that parachute before being thrown out of the plane. The parachute hasn't been given the <government agency> stamp of approval."
"Because maybe it will attract children," is an excuse, not a reason. Would you prefer that your children be attracted by tobacco cigarettes instead?
"Because people might switch instead of quitting," is the longest river in Africa: Denial. It's the people who otherwise would not or could not quit that are switching. These clowns are living in the world of make-believe where every smoker one day wakes up and says, "Hey, I'm going to quit today." About as likely to happen as turning every American citizen into a tea-totaler.
Even if only 2% of the people who give it a try manage to stop or reduce their cigarette smoking, that's an awsome number of "reformed" smokers who would not otherwise have quit or reduced their tobacco smoking. May I point out that those 10% long term success rates of NRTs are based on follow-up of participants in Randomized Clinical Trials (RCTs). People were brought together in a group, supplied with product, and given instruction on how to use the product.
We are seeeing ~80% success with people who voluntarily came together in a group, bought their own product, and received informal instruction on product use via websites like this one.
Many of us are "hard core" smokers who tried multiple methods without success over the course of many, many years, so our success stories are extremely remarkable, IMHO.
Elaine, Professor Carl Phillips (Harm-Reduction proponent) has an excellent report where he refutes the claims re: "...persons who might have otherwise quit, might 'just' switch". I'm sorry I don't have the exact link to his report right now-I think you can find it at Tobacco Harm Reduction.org- Anyway he very adeptly illuminates that the benefits of a person who 'switches' versus someone who 'quits altogether' are so close/similar that any differences are negligible at best. Also, and perhaps more imortantly, the time it would take a person who "...otherwise would have quit" to actually quit-numerous studies show it rarely happens the first time and is characterized by numerous relapses(returns to tobacco smoking) - that this time of continued tobacco smoking, even if it were for only thirty days would, in fact, be more harmful health-wise than if a person chose to use an electronic cigarette the rest of their life. Please read his report, if you haven't already - and I apologize in advance if I've inadvertently mischaracterized his points on this particular issue, I don't believe I have.
This is a most illuminating (and amusing arcticle.) You have to register at British Medical Journal to read it, but registration is free. There are many pertinent articles published there, so membership is worth while.
Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge
Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge
Really late in jumping into this, but this connection of patches to dreams grabbed me. Nic acts very similarly to acetylcholine (ACH). Anything that boosts levels of ACH in the brain, or mimics ACH, will increase dreams, as well as memory (Which I believe dreaming is related to) and higher complex thinking, like math. There are supplements that increase ACH. the most common one is high-strength lecithin. You use to be able to buy choline bitatrate. Take a bunch of it every day and you will get the same dreams, even the same kind of dreams. We called them choline dreams: vivid, often involving a chase, running, and a high level of emotion, colors, smells, tactile effects. The boost in memory and intelligence when taking a lot of lecithin is quite noticeable. And the dreams were a side-effect that told you maybe you are taking too much.
The dreams I've had from nic-at-night
are the same kind. To me they are clearly from nic's ACH-mimicking effects, and not MAOI's. The half-life of nic is very short, so have a smoke before going to bed and the nic is almost all gone by the time you hit your dreaming cycle. The patch is the gift that keeps giving, even when you don't want it to, and will keep the nic level high all night long. The MAOI angle is a logical one, in many respects, but I don't think it is true. This to me is a purely nic effect. And the absorption of nic with PVs is much slower and more sustained, so vape up for a while before sleeping, and the nic level will remain high for much longer than getting the nic from an analog. If anything, I would think the MAOIs would inhibit dreaming, since they tend to have a somewhat sedating effect.
Also, I have had very vivid dreams with nic, but not lucid dreams that I recall. Lucid dreams are technically where you are dreaming, you know you are dreaming, and you can thus control everything in your dream. Really great to have, but I have not had any of those since vaping, although I've had lots of amazing dreams, VERY choline-dream-like, some of which I would not want to repeat.
Last edited:
To Kurt, We do know that there's a plethora of chemical combinations that happen when tobacco is combusted, and there are more than a couple of intrinsic brain and body responses that differ from person to person, so just to say that MAOI's are totally responsible for euphoria or as a sleep aid is just an example of a simple view, and you're absolutely right not to it give full credence....there are many other complex molecular interactions with other substances as well. That statement was made with regard to a question on MAOI's. We all know it's a narrow and conditional point of view.
If I were a scientist with 50 years of training and experience my answer would have probably overloaded the server. I think we all know the ups and downs of e-cigs vs cold turkey or Pharma to stop smoking, but I know when I started with mine it was to just be safer in comparison to smoking. The "switch" was on purpose out of desparation. Maybe now I'll have maybe a more difficult job of quitting vaping, who knows, but I am very sure the transition value was undeniably very high in my case. I can't say strongly enough I may not have made another year to see if it was a right or wrong choice. As with many smokers my health was at a very precarious point back then, a simple cold or another bout with pneumonia may just have been my last. No doubt in my mind. Bottom line, smoking kills. Vaping doesn't just cure the addiction without some physical and emotional dedication to make it work. It's an either~or choice. Cold Turkey I've done, with horribly negative results. My daughter right now is just figuring that all out, and it's not enjoyable at all.
If I were a scientist with 50 years of training and experience my answer would have probably overloaded the server. I think we all know the ups and downs of e-cigs vs cold turkey or Pharma to stop smoking, but I know when I started with mine it was to just be safer in comparison to smoking. The "switch" was on purpose out of desparation. Maybe now I'll have maybe a more difficult job of quitting vaping, who knows, but I am very sure the transition value was undeniably very high in my case. I can't say strongly enough I may not have made another year to see if it was a right or wrong choice. As with many smokers my health was at a very precarious point back then, a simple cold or another bout with pneumonia may just have been my last. No doubt in my mind. Bottom line, smoking kills. Vaping doesn't just cure the addiction without some physical and emotional dedication to make it work. It's an either~or choice. Cold Turkey I've done, with horribly negative results. My daughter right now is just figuring that all out, and it's not enjoyable at all.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
