Let's talk about the 'gateway' effect...

[DC2]

Here are my beliefs, from many years of studying and reading everything I could get my hands on...

--Nicotine, absent smoking, is not all that addictive
--Nicotine is really not much more harmful than caffeine
--Nicotine improves memory, concentration, and attention
--Nicotine is not as "poisonous" or "toxic" as THEY have made it out to be
--Nicotine may prevent certain diseases or dysfunctions
--Nicotine may alleviate symptoms of certain other diseases or dysfunctions

So in my opinion, anybody who want to should go ahead and use nicotine.
I personally have no doubt that doing so is better than taking up a coffee addiction.

But hey, my opinion is clearly "politically incorrect" so I only state it for the purpose of furthering discussion.
God forbid anyone think I am advocating for nicotine use.

But when Big Pharma gets their claws into nicotine as a useful drug, then we'll see what happens.

 

[AegisPrime]

I cannot agree with you, here, in entirety. Of course, putting only air in one's lungs is preferable. And, I can see that doing our best to prevent people from becoming addicted to nicotine is a good idea. And, it's this point that we must think about: We often like to say that nicotine is rather benign like caffeine. Problem is, nicotine is a powerful poison. I certainly don't want my children to become addicted to nicotine. Sure, they have a choice, but I pray they make the correct decision. The truth is that smokers are used to inhaling over 4000 poisons, and think they cannot quit, that the thought of only inhaling nicotine appears marvelous. I think the ecig finds it's greatest value relative to cigarette smoking because the ecig stands to cure nearly every single complaint that has ever been leveled at cigarette smoking, except the nicotine, of course. I strongly feel that this is the best way to approach the ecig discussion with lawmakers and non-smokers.

Well, I agree that e-cigs are mostly likely to gain acceptance as a smoking cessation device (and when they do we'll be pressured to quit vaping because we're only supposed to be using these things to quit nicotine).

Re: nicotine - I'm no expert - and if there's people on here that know better then I'll gladly defer to them but...

Nicotine has been approved by the FDA for long-term NRT precisely because addiction (to nicotine) doesn't appear to be harmful - conversely, studies are also starting to suggest that nicotine may actually be beneficial.

You may know this, but everyone tests positive for nicotine - smoker, vaper or not - it's naturally occurring, we ingest it in our food and the common vitamin we see in just about everything - niacin - is, yep - nicotinic acid.

Nicotine is a poison, but it's nowhere near as toxic as we've been led to believe (it's recently been revealed that the actually lethal dose of nicotine may be 20 times greater than previously assumed) - truth is, enough of anything (even water) will kill you.

I can't argue that it's better to be free of addictions than have them but you know what? I like my nicotine, I like my caffeine too - I like my movie collection and the video games I play. I like reading and writing too - oh, and scuba diving.

We all have many behaviours that stimulate the feel-good centers of the brain - nicotine (for me) is just one of them

 

[bluecat]

I think the only way vaping could be a gateway is if somehow ecigs are completely banned. Anyone that has become accustomed to vaping nicotine will find an alternative if their favorite mode of use is taken away. The horrible taste of cigarettes is only a deterent when their are better options available.

I happen to be a father to a 15 year old and 11 year old girls. Thank the Lord the putting makeup on daddy days are over. Anyway, I asked my 15 year old, who goes to a 3k student 10-12th grade high school, if any of the kids use what I use, vape more or less. She has seen them, but they never continue it. The kids say it is "stupid" after using one.

Basically they see no point in them. Granted I live in mega conservative Ohio, so that could be a difference.

 

[RosaJ]

Here are my beliefs, from many years of studying and reading everything I could get my hands on...

--Nicotine, absent smoking, is not all that addictive
--Nicotine is really not much more harmful than caffeine
--Nicotine improves memory, concentration, and attention
--Nicotine is not as "poisonous" or "toxic" as THEY have made it out to be
--Nicotine may prevent certain diseases or dysfunctions
--Nicotine may alleviate symptoms of certain other diseases or dysfunctions

So in my opinion, anybody who want to should go ahead and use nicotine.
I personally have no doubt that doing so is better than taking up a coffee addiction.

But hey, my opinion is clearly "politically incorrect" so I only state it for the purpose of furthering discussion.
God forbid anyone think I am advocating for nicotine use.

But when Big Pharma gets their claws into nicotine as a useful drug, then we'll see what happens.

Totally agree! I can also think of worse addictions other than nicotine (if it is an addiction as delivered through an ecig) that are mind altering to the point of the user being a life threatening entity (I'm not talking about second hand anything!)

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

My mother is a nurse. That said, once I successfully quit smoking using vaping, she asked me to help my 16 year old sister select some vape gear for Christmas. She's been smoking cigarettes. My mother has tried evereything she could to get her to stop, including sending her to another state to spend summer vacation to get her away from the older friends who are supplying her with them. It didn't matter. As soon as school started, she started smoking cigarettes again. Half a pack a day. So now she's vaping and she loves it. It's about harm reduction now. She seems to be able to get her hands on cigarettes no matter what, so better she vape then smoke.

 

[AegisPrime]

Good for her! Nice to see so many success stories here (apparently we're all Big Tobacco lobbyists )

 

[DC2]

Well, I agree that e-cigs are mostly likely to gain acceptance as a smoking cessation device (and when they do we'll be pressured to quit vaping because we're only supposed to be using these things to quit nicotine).

Re: nicotine - I'm no expert - and if there's people on here that know better then I'll gladly defer to them but...

Nicotine has been approved by the FDA for long-term NRT precisely because addiction (to nicotine) doesn't appear to be harmful - conversely, studies are also starting to suggest that nicotine may actually be beneficial.

You may know this, but everyone tests positive for nicotine - smoker, vaper or not - it's naturally occurring, we ingest it in our food and the common vitamin we see in just about everything - niacin - is, yep - nicotinic acid.

Nicotine is a poison, but it's nowhere near as toxic as we've been led to believe (it's recently been revealed that the actually lethal dose of nicotine may be 20 times greater than previously assumed) - truth is, enough of anything (even water) will kill you.

I can't argue that it's better to be free of addictions than have them but you know what? I like my nicotine, I like my caffeine too - I like my movie collection and the video games I play. I like reading and writing too - oh, and scuba diving.

We all have many behaviours that stimulate the feel-good centers of the brain - nicotine (for me) is just one of them

Post more...

 

[OldSeer]

Hmm? According to this study there is NO GATEWAY...
of Electronic Cigarettes leading children nor adults to Smoking Tobacco... at least in the
State of Oklahoma...

See: Looks Like There's No Gateway in Oklahoma! - ECF InfoZone

 

[AegisPrime]

Post more...

Lol! I work better with a debate

But navigator2011 had a good point - nicotine (in high enough doses) is toxic, it's highly addictive in cigarettes and may still be somewhat addictive in vapour.

None of us would want our kids to be saddled with a crippling, debilitating addiction and to some, the idea of being addicted to anything is abhorrent - and I get that.

But as people, we're not just addicted to chemicals - we're addicted to consuming, repetitive patterns of behaviour - some of us are addicted to relationships, sex, chocolate, good coffee - it's all part of the human condition and we all express our addictions in different ways - some of these can be positive, others destructive and then there's caffeine and nicotine which are pretty harmless really.

I respect that others may think differently but I don't like it when we as smokers, vapers, shop-aholics are made to feel there's something wrong - there isn't.

Unless you listen to Big Pharma - who probably have just the thing for you...

 

[DC2]

Unless you listen to Big Pharma - who probably have just the thing for you...

Yes, Big Pharma has everything you need.
Even if you don't really need it.

And if you don't realize you need it, they will invent a reason.
And then they will use all means of advertising to make sure you realize it.

And then the FDA will take their fees, and approve it.
Even if it might kill you.

#ChantixKills

 

[AegisPrime]

I find the story behind the 'discovery' of Osteopenia quite fascinating - basically, Pharma invented a new disease to increase the sales of one of their meds.

It treads a very narrow path between public health and corporate greed - and everyone involved felt they were doing what's best for the public - it shows how easy it is through influencing doctors to get millions of people on a medicine there's no actual evidence they need.

 

[navigator2011]

I happen to be a father to a 15 year old and 11 year old girls. Thank the Lord the putting makeup on daddy days are over. Anyway, I asked my 15 year old, who goes to a 3k student 10-12th grade high school, if any of the kids use what I use, vape more or less. She has seen them, but they never continue it. The kids say it is "stupid" after using one.

Basically they see no point in them. Granted I live in mega conservative Ohio, so that could be a difference.

Yeah, my 12-year is reporting people are using them in Jr. High School. But, as you say, they don't appear to continue on with it because they are using 0-nicotine.

 

[AegisPrime]

Yeah, my 12-year is reporting people are using them in Jr. High School. But, as you say, they don't appear to continue on with it because they are using 0-nicotine.

Lol! Does that make us all uncool? (I can live with that)

 

[DC2]

I find the story behind the 'discovery' of Osteopenia quite fascinating - basically, Pharma invented a new disease to increase the sales of one of their meds.

It treads a very narrow path between public health and corporate greed - and everyone involved felt they were doing what's best for the public - it shows how easy it is through influencing doctors to get millions of people on a medicine there's no actual evidence they need.

I'm not going to sit here and say that Big Pharma never does any good.
Or that the alphabet soup (ALA, ACS, AMA, AHA, CDC, FDA) never do any good.

But I will say that somewhere along the way they have traded truth for money.
And that puts them in a place where they can no longer be trusted.

Those that realize this are small in numbers, but surely growing.
We WILL have our day.

 

[navigator2011]

Unless you listen to Big Pharma - who probably have just the thing for you...

I get the feeling that Big Pharma thinks addiction to something is a wonderful idea . . . as long as they are your sole provider.

 

[bluecat]

Unless you listen to Big Pharma - who probably have just the thing for you...

I have family members with Alzheimer's and MS. It isn't pleasant, not much you can do though.

The thing that amazes me is the number of pills they each take. It is absolutely crazy. A lot of time one pill is taken to counter the side effects of another pill.

Honestly, I don't see where they work anyway. The mind is gone and just gets drunk to ease the days away. I won't even go over the $s that is paid for their medication per year... more than a middle class home in suburbia.

 

[AegisPrime]

I'm not going to sit here and say that Big Pharma never does any good.
Or that the alphabet soup (ALA, ACS, AMA, AHA, CDC, FDA) never do any good.

But I will say that somewhere along the way they have traded truth for money.
And that puts them in a place where they can no longer be trusted.

Those that realize this are small in numbers, but surely growing.
We WILL have our day.

I need to read up some more on the whole Champix thing - certainly it's disturbing to me that they're selling a repackaged anti-depressant as a quit smoking aid - whoever thought that would be a good idea???

 

[navigator2011]

Lol! Does that make us all uncool? (I can live with that)

No, I'm just pointing out that they are doing it. In absence of vaping gear, they would all be addicted to cigarettes by now. My son is all too fascinated with all my vaping gear, liquids, tubes, etc. I keep having to make it clear to him that it is harm reduction, and is my latest quit smoking adventure. I don't want him taking it up just for fun.

 

[AegisPrime]

I have family members with Alzheimer's and MS. It isn't pleasant, not much you can do though.

The thing that amazes me is the number of pills they each take. It is absolutely crazy. A lot of time one pill is taken to counter the side effects of another pill.

Honestly, I don't see where they work anyway. The mind is gone and just gets drunk to ease the days away. I won't even go over the $s that is paid for their medication per year... more than a middle class home in suburbia.

That's awful bluecat - and taking medicines to counteract the side effects of other medicines?? *speechless*

 

[navigator2011]

I need to read up some more on the whole Champix thing - certainly it's disturbing to me that they're selling a repackaged anti-depressant as a quit smoking aid - whoever thought that would be a good idea???

And that drug seriously effs some people up. I do know of some that claim it's a miracle. I know others that have almost died while on it, though. I don't know of anyone who nearly passed from vaping (well, except for those peeps that post to the FDA site), but I know a ton of people that vaped their cigarette addiction away.