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They do, they will, they know, they have and no, we are not already there scientifically. I'm sorry, Matt, but the ALA is a lost cause. They already KNOW about THR and e-cigs and heard hundreds of our stories but they are DENIERS and ZEALOTS. You cannot reason with them. We've tried. And tried. Then tried again. We need to convince the REST of the public so the ALA finally has to admit defeat. But you will not get through to them with success stories and facts. They stand to lose too much if they admit e-cigarettes are a reduced harm alternative. You're basically asking them to give up their bread and butter or their fundamental beliefs- it has nothing to do with truth. I hate to see your energy, passion and enthusiasm wasted on this, but you don't want to listen, so I guess you'll have to find out the hard way.
We thought Senator John Kyl might of been a lost cause as well
John Kyl now.
Notice Kyl agreed to online poker not online gambling. So we where able to get him to differentiate poker from gambling. Like I believe we need to differentiate Tobacco from Ecigs. Ecigs never gave anyone oral or lung cancer.
UIGEA Proponent Jon Kyl Drops Blockage of Obama Treasury Nominees
John Kyl now.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/online-gambling-bill-stalled-by-tactical-spat-20120912
Notice Kyl agreed to online poker not online gambling. So we where able to get him to differentiate poker from gambling. Like I believe we need to differentiate Tobacco from Ecigs. Ecigs never gave anyone oral or lung cancer.
Ah yes, and I do like the effort!
I went to look and see how the campaign is progressing...
But I can no longer find any of the posts by following the original link.
The ALA is certainly a lost cause, along with the ACS and AHA. Just look at their stance on smokeless tobacco to get a clue as to where they are as far as THR. There are mountains of solid research on smokeless tobacco that show it is dramatically less harmful then smoking, yet they refuse to recognize that, and in fact consistently lie about the risk.
They know the truth, but it is simply not in their agenda to save millions of lives by telling the truth about the relative harm of different tobacco products. It doesn't pay the bills, and it certainly doesn't pay the six or seven figure salaries. It thew92 wants to give it a try then go for it, but be prepared to go for the long haul to even make a pin ..... of difference, and you would be lucky to get that far. You are not going to change the ALA from the inside. The people who control these groups are hard core anti-THR.
It seems to me the first thing we need to do is get the public on our side.
1st we need to get more Ecig users united and make them aware there is a real threat.
The online poker world from 2002-2011 was in a unregulated "wild wild west" I remember all to well what happened to me on 4-15-11 (Black Friday). I fear the same will happen here if we don't unite and get proactive before it's to late.
I agree 100% on that one.
This was what I tried to do about that...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...m/242515-newish-member-contest-awareness.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-newish-member-contest-awareness-part-ii.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...h-member-contest-awareness-double-prizes.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-newish-member-contest-awareness-part-iv.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...6-newish-member-contest-awareness-part-v.html
That was the best idea I could come up with.
I've also urged ECF to use their banners to advise members of upcoming legislation and ban attempts.
They said they would consider it, but it seems that may not be something they want to do.
I sure hope you can come up with something that gets the ball rolling!
For the last three years I have been leaving comments on the SmokeFree Wisconsin FaceBook page.
SmokeFree Wisconsin | Facebook
Much like the ALA, this is nothing more then a front for BP. I like to leave comments on their page just to give them a poke to see if they are still alive. I've been doing this for a long time. I have no illusions they are going to change. They are founded with money from BP and they continue to get a good deal of there fonds from BP. They are fanatically opposed to THR and nothing is going to change that. If THR ever becomes mainstream, SmokeFree Wisconsin, along with the ALA, will be among the last people opposed to it, right up to the time we storm the gates and burn 'em out.
I'm not even quite sure why I still do it. Occasionally I can get a good discussion going and perhaps open up a few eyes as to the real story. There has even been a few people from ECF and CASAA that have chimed in. I even had one person who was posting on the page who was a smoker going on rants against SmokeFree Wisconsin. He later contacted me and said he had switched to a THR product after reading some of the links I had given. Good on him, and perhaps some good came out of my effort. But as I said, I am under no illusions about changing SmokeFree Wisconsin. I also am not going to urge other people to join me in my little personal crusade against them. If someone else wants to join in that's fine, but I know it's a losing cause to think these groups will turn around and support THR. It's not going to happen.
I know you may be under the illusion that somewhere deep inside the folks at the ALA there beats some glimmer of a compassionate, empathetic heart that you can reach, but as of this date no one else has been able to find it.
There is no disagreement that we need to educate the public about THR. There are a bunch of us that have been working on that for a some time. The problem is you are hung up with the ALA in thinking that's the place to do it. It's not. You can leave comments on there FaceBook page all you want but it's not going to change them. If want to write the a check for a few million you may get an ear, but other then that, you're going to hit a brick wall.
SmokeFree Wisconsin | Facebook
Much like the ALA, this is nothing more then a front for BP. I like to leave comments on their page just to give them a poke to see if they are still alive. I've been doing this for a long time. I have no illusions they are going to change. They are founded with money from BP and they continue to get a good deal of there fonds from BP. They are fanatically opposed to THR and nothing is going to change that. If THR ever becomes mainstream, SmokeFree Wisconsin, along with the ALA, will be among the last people opposed to it, right up to the time we storm the gates and burn 'em out.
I'm not even quite sure why I still do it. Occasionally I can get a good discussion going and perhaps open up a few eyes as to the real story. There has even been a few people from ECF and CASAA that have chimed in. I even had one person who was posting on the page who was a smoker going on rants against SmokeFree Wisconsin. He later contacted me and said he had switched to a THR product after reading some of the links I had given. Good on him, and perhaps some good came out of my effort. But as I said, I am under no illusions about changing SmokeFree Wisconsin. I also am not going to urge other people to join me in my little personal crusade against them. If someone else wants to join in that's fine, but I know it's a losing cause to think these groups will turn around and support THR. It's not going to happen.
I know you may be under the illusion that somewhere deep inside the folks at the ALA there beats some glimmer of a compassionate, empathetic heart that you can reach, but as of this date no one else has been able to find it.
There is no disagreement that we need to educate the public about THR. There are a bunch of us that have been working on that for a some time. The problem is you are hung up with the ALA in thinking that's the place to do it. It's not. You can leave comments on there FaceBook page all you want but it's not going to change them. If want to write the a check for a few million you may get an ear, but other then that, you're going to hit a brick wall.
- Apr 2, 2009
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I strongly disagree that its a waste of time for e-cigarette consumers to contact ALA, ACS, AHA, FDA, CTFK, AMA, Legacy, ANR (or other groups that have advocated bans on e-cigarette sales and/or use).
I've been sending hundreds of e-cigarette opponents weekly e-mails (sometimes more often) for the past 5 years informing them of the many health benefits of e-cigarettes (including all of the many studies on e-cigarettes) and urging them reverse their outrageous policies opposing e-cigarettes and other smokefree tobacco harm reduction alterntives.
If just several hundred e-cigarette consumers sent e-mails to these same folks saying how e-cigarettes helped them quit smoking, some of these groups will change their policies opposing e-cigarettes (as the issue will become too contraversial within those organizations for them to continue lying about the products and trying to ban their sales and use).
I've been sending hundreds of e-cigarette opponents weekly e-mails (sometimes more often) for the past 5 years informing them of the many health benefits of e-cigarettes (including all of the many studies on e-cigarettes) and urging them reverse their outrageous policies opposing e-cigarettes and other smokefree tobacco harm reduction alterntives.
If just several hundred e-cigarette consumers sent e-mails to these same folks saying how e-cigarettes helped them quit smoking, some of these groups will change their policies opposing e-cigarettes (as the issue will become too contraversial within those organizations for them to continue lying about the products and trying to ban their sales and use).
If this were true, which I would not doubt entirely, the question becomes how do we get "several hundred e-cigarette consumers" to do so?
You would think it would be easy, and I would think it would be easy, but apathy or lack of concern seems to be rampant here.
I wish I could figure out what it would take to wake people up.
Because they currently are slumbering.
I hope when the proverbial **** hits the fan, we will wake up, stand up, and fight.
Of course it would be far better, and far more effective, to start fighting before any fans are involved.
Stop saying it won't work to begin. Put this action plan on in the general forum on ECF. Anyone with a large email data-base of Ecig users tell them to do the same. Be positive Be positive Be positive. It will never work if you don't believe it will work to begin with. Keep it simple and easy to do. New action plans or threads would have to be started by someone with whom the community knows and respects.
You mean like these?
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/346988-please-watch.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../341044-who-says-there-nothing-we-can-do.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ussion/277591-so-you-call-yourself-vaper.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-want-see-something-will-piss-you-off.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/165926-did-you-know.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-one-my-infrequent-service-announcements.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...t-important-thing-every-vaper-needs-know.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...name-here-you-commented-but-did-not-vote.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...8-you-finally-ready-stand-up-counted-yet.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ion/37731-why-isnt-there-sticky-petition.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-cigarette-petition-must-signed-everyone.html
Stop talking and start doing, that's always been my philosophy.
But fresh new ideas are always needed and welcome.
I would be glad to start a thread for you if you want me to...
Or lobby someone else with more "credentials" if you think it would help...
The last thing I would want to do is discourage you.
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I should probably mention that I have always thought getting a high profile celebrity involved would be huge.
And I'm not talking the Charlie Sheen (vaper) or Paris Hilton (vaper) or Lindsey Lohan (vaper) types...
I'm talking about Leonardo DiCaprio (vaper) or Katherine Heigl (vaper) or geez, maybe even Rush Limbaugh (vaper).
I left a long and heart-felt message for Leo on the contact link on his facebook page.
I can only wonder if whomever screens such messages ever passed it on, but I haven't heard back.
John Cameron, brother of James Cameron, is another potential powerful ally.
But given that he has started his own electronic cigarette company, he may have other motivations.
I just want what you want, and I want to figure out how to make it happen.
But for now, I'm going to relax and open up another Stone Smoked Porter.
And I'm not talking the Charlie Sheen (vaper) or Paris Hilton (vaper) or Lindsey Lohan (vaper) types...
I'm talking about Leonardo DiCaprio (vaper) or Katherine Heigl (vaper) or geez, maybe even Rush Limbaugh (vaper).
I left a long and heart-felt message for Leo on the contact link on his facebook page.
I can only wonder if whomever screens such messages ever passed it on, but I haven't heard back.
John Cameron, brother of James Cameron, is another potential powerful ally.
But given that he has started his own electronic cigarette company, he may have other motivations.
I just want what you want, and I want to figure out how to make it happen.
But for now, I'm going to relax and open up another Stone Smoked Porter.
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