Lexington Vape Meet Met with Opposition from Univ. of Ky Antz Professor

[Vocalek]

EJH: Letter has already been sent to the University by one of the CASAA Directors.

TennDave: Suggest you send a similar message to Dr. Brad Rodu as well. His blog is "tobacco Truth" http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/

Someone should invite him to the meet, since he lives in LOO-uh-vull. (Did I pronounce that correctly?)

 

[Fazed]

EJH: Letter has already been sent to the University by one of the CASAA Directors.

TennDave: Suggest you send a similar message to Dr. Brad Rodu as well. His blog is "tobacco Truth" http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/

Someone should invite him to the meet, since he lives in LOO-uh-vull. (Did I pronounce that correctly?)

Elaine, I have been in contact with Dr. Rodu. He stated that he is unable to attend, but is more than willing to offer any media related appearances if need be.

 

[Petrodus]

I don't have anything to contribute
However, to this ole Missouri boy ...
Its obvious the idiot poked the wrong hornets nest
and now it's "Game On" !!

 

[Bill Godshall]

Please note that Lexington's smokefree worplace ordinance (that Hahn campaigned to enact 5 or 6 years ago) does NOT ban e-cigarette use. Otherwise, Hahn's letter to the hotel would have said so.

If the hotel management decides to change its policy (to ban e-cigarette use per Hahn's suggestion), that would likely constitute a breach of contract with the vape meet organizers. I strongly doubt that the hotel managment would want to lose thousands of dollars of revenue by banning e-cigarette use just to satisfy one crazy lady.

I've known Hahn for more than 20 years (as we used to collaborate on campaigns to reduce cigarette smoking). Durign the past five years, I've sent Hahn virtually all of the scientific and empirical evidence on e-cigarettes (that she claims doesn't exist), and I've repeatedly informed her of her inaccurate claims about e-cigarettes.

But she's a tobacco/nicotine prohibitionist (who falsely portrays herself as a public health researcher and advocate), unless of course the nicotine is marketed by drug companies.

 

[Petrodus]

Please note that Lexington's smokefree worplace ordinance .....

Just me stirring up the pot ...
Wondering if the media would be interested in this short insert somewhere
Quoting from Bill's post

She's a tobacco/nicotine prohibitionist (who falsely portrays herself
as a public health researcher and advocate), unless of course the
nicotine is marketed by drug companies.

 

[Fazed]

The ordinance makes no mention of ecigarettes. Only burning tobacco products. The copy of the ordinance for those of you who can't sleep can be found HERE.

 

[TennDave]

Matt, do you know if Dr. Badu received a copy of (or link to) the letter that Hahn wrote?
I've known you've been in touch but didn't know if he's had the updates.
I can send an email as suggested, but don't want to be redundant if it's already been done.

 

[Fazed]

Matt, do you know if Dr. Badu received a copy of (or link to) the letter that Hahn wrote?
I've known you've been in touch but didn't know if he's had the updates.
I can send an email as suggested, but don't want to be redundant if it's already been done.

I didn't send him a copy of the letter to the hotel, no. I just got that today. If you want to forward that to him, I'd appreciate it.

 

[edensin]

I didn't look, but is this chick running for office or something? Clearly this is all contrived to attract attention to herself.

 

[Vocalek]

She might have shades of narcissistic personality disorder.

 

[Petrodus]

She might have shades of narcissistic personality disorder.

Shades of of narcissistic personality disorder ... Your too kind

Per Wikipedia ...
Symptoms of this disorder may include, but are not limited to:

Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, power, intelligence...
Requiring constant attention & positive reinforcement from others
Easily becoming jealous
Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
Being obsessed with oneself
Mainly pursuing selfish goals
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Easily becoming hurt and rejected
Setting goals that are unrealistic
Wanting "the best" of everything
Appearing unemotional

Per Wiki ... this disorder effects 1% of the population.
I think maybe its at least 80% (+/-) 2% of all those opposed to harm reduction
Heck ... If they can make up statistics ... So can I ... It's only fair !!

 

[VapApe]

From this old buckeyes view point. That gal is just plum crazy.

Will their be vendors at the meet? If so could they take her to small claims court. It would be great to hold her accountable for her lies.

Just another thought. How about a articular.

University of Kentucky going after small business.
The dean at UK would love this.

 

[TennDave]

I didn't send him a copy of the letter to the hotel, no. I just got that today. If you want to forward that to him, I'd appreciate it.

Okay, I'm on it now!!
-Dave

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Just decided I needed a road trip, got me a room and driving to Lexington to join this crowd and be one more body to show support. What the Hay, it's been a while since I ate breakfast in Lexington.

 

[Redneck Disciple]

Sent to the University Senate Senate Council Officers and Chair Persons as well as Ellen Hahn
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello I am a Internet Radio hobbyist and Vaper ( E-Cig User)

Some fellow vapers, vendors and I are planning a get together to meet other persons interested in the same areas of health concerns and stop smoking cessation aids.

I am writing you letting you know that a member of the staff is putting out false statements and disrupting a peaceful meeting or gathering of fellow vapers. Ellen Haun has took it upon herself to try and stop our event Aug 4. Please read the attached letter she sent to the Hotel where the event is being held .

I was a 35 yr. smoker with a teakostomy and lung condition as well as COPD.. up until 7 months ago I was on oxygen 24/7 and on many medications for breathing, diabetes,high blood pressure, and in hospital numerous times a year with phenomena. I have switch to Vaping and not smoking anymore and my health has improved 110% , and can provide the medical proof if needed. I no longer need as many meds as before and only need the oxygen at night due to sleep apnea.

I am not a professional nor do I even have a high school diploma, all I can say is I am in better health now than I was 10 years ago and it keeps improving daily. Ellen has made many claims in this letter that is simply not true, like the one with 500 mg of nicotine in 1 cartridge and the amounts of cancer causing chemicals, she is simply telling lies and not doing the research she has been paid to do. This letter is based on a study in 2008 and was done in New Zealand and from what I have read their procedures are not as controlled as the ones done in USA. The report is called Laugesen Ruyan report form 2008.

so please look at this letter and I am not asking for anything but for her to stop telling the lies and misinforming ppl about something that has saved my life.

I didn’t want to send as an attachment but will provide a link to the letter she sent instead.

https://docs.google.com/file/​d/0B-Z66KV_MY2JRFlVbFkzZkh3NUU/​edit?pli=1

Thank You for your time and consideration

Lee Conn

Vaping Saved My Life

 

[Drew_]

unless of course the nicotine is marketed by drug companies.

This is the key to the whole thing; how much of Pfizers money has Ms. Hahn pocketed?

 

[Vocalek]

Lee: There was nothing wrong with Laugesen's study. The problem lies in how Hahn chose to interpret it. Here is a link to the study itself: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

Most of the chemicals she names in her attachment come from Table 3.1.2 on page 10 of the study. Where the lie comes into play is that the table lists a number of chemicals usually found in cigarette smoke that were not detected by Laugeson, and for those that were detected, it shows the quantity in parts per million. You can look up the OSHA PEL (permissible exposure level) for these chemicals, and you will find that the quantities in vapor are many times smaller than the PEL. You can look up PEL quantities here: TABLE Z-1 Limits for Air Contaminants. - 1910.1000 TABLE Z-1

The description above the table reads, "1. 38 millilitre puff. After correcting for dilution, the most common cigarette smoke toxicants were found to be either completely absent, or present in amounts less than 1 part per million." She also failed to quote the overall conclusion:

Several toxicants in headspace of the Ruyan® e-cigarette cartridge have, on some tests, been found, specifically acrolein and acetaldehyde, at very low levels, and at levels below those determined to be harmful, and well below the minimum risk levels accepted by the US Public Health Service and OSHA.

The results obtained to date do not mitigate this report’s overall conclusion that the Ruyan® e-cigarette is designed to be a safe alternative to smoking, and appears to be safe in absolute terms on all measurements we have applied.

The same problem comes in when she cites the FDA report as the source. She is actually citing the FDA's press conference, rather than the scientific report which can be viewed here: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/UCM173250.pdf

The FDA's press release made a big deal about "carcinogens" and "antifreeze" being found in e-cigarettes. Not mentioned is the fact that both were only found in the liquid, but not in the vapor. But even if the vapor were ingested (which it certainly should NOT be unless one wants to risk nicotine overdose) the quantities are not large enough to be harmful.

The quantity of "carcingens" (Tobacco-specific Nitrosamines) in the liquid is not mentioned, but we know from Laugesen's study that the quantity is equivalent to what's in a Nicotine patch. The quantity of diethylene glycol (referred to as 'antifreeze') is mentioned -- 1% of the liquid in one cartridge. That would make the total amount about 0.005 g, but the level that would do harm if ingested is 1 gram / kilogram of body weight. There is no PEL for diethylene glycol -- not considered harmful if inhaled. But then again, none was found in the vapor!

As for chemicals in the vapor, the report reads:

Nicotine was detected in both products for all cartridges containing low, medium and high levels of nicotine but was not
observed in cartridges identified as containing no nicotine. Screening for the possible tobacco specific impurities cotinine, nicotine-N-oxide, nornicotine, anabasine and myosmine was negative. β-Nicotyrine was detected in all Njoy cartridges but was not detected in the Smoking Everywhere cartridges.

There is no evidence that β-Nicotyrine is toxic or carcinogenic. So the bottom line is that the FDA found no chemicals present in vapor that present a health hazard.

 

[Redneck Disciple]

Agreed but still the point is what she based her finding was an old report and didnt do the research herseld or bother to look for a newer one.. the 500 mg in 1 cartridge is what i was mainly pointing at.. Like i said in the letter a Redneck High School Dropout .. but i know how much better i feel .. God Bless

 

[Vocalek]

I know. I just wanted to clarify the issues involving the research. Despite the fact that Laugeson's study preceded the FDA's by about 6 months, it is a much better study.

 

[MattZuke]

Agreed but still the point is what she based her finding was an old report and didnt do the research herseld or bother to look for a newer one.. the 500 mg in 1 cartridge is what i was mainly pointing at.. Like i said in the letter a Redneck High School Dropout .. but i know how much better i feel .. God Bless

I covered this in reddit. The actual claim was that a bottle could contain 500mg of nicotine(5) . This is true. A 30ml bottle with a solution at 16.67mg/ml would be 500mg.

"Cartridges can be refilled using drops of solution sold in bottles labelled as containing over 500 mg nicotine, approximately 10 times the lethal dose" --Thomas Eissenberg

I've not met a 30ml cartridge. The patent intellectual dishonesty of this woman astounds me.

(5) Eissenberg T. Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute administration. Tob Control. 2010;19(1):87-88