looks like the party's ending for BT.

[Kent C]

It didn't say e-cigalike. It said ecigarette. Keep in mind, most people think of an ecigarette as any vapor product.

I was under impression they were talking about vapor products here, not cigalikes.

You're right - it's about vaping in general - even though it's not real clear:

• 80% of tobacco retailers reported that they now carry e-cigs, down from 100% in December 2014

• 60% of tobacco retailers reported carrying other vapor products, down from 79% in December 2014

One could consider 'other vapor products' as eGos, mods, tanks but likely it's eliquid, attys, coils, etc. vs, cigalikes, but I didn't get that from the article either.

But I find something that doesn't compute:

The headline is 'the ecigarette frenzy is over'....

And the chart - the 'look' of which might tend to suggest that....

Yet the question asked regarding the chart was:

"Are you further expanding your selection of ecigarette offerings?"

That could mean many things:

1. We have all the ecigarette offerings available and in stock - we're not going to expand to other products.
2. Further expanding might not be considered as supplying 'new' versions of older mods, ecigs, etc. - iow, we'll replace some product lines rather than 'expand them'.
3. We're cutting down because the market is better defined - ie eGos, box mods, subohm tanks, clearos rather than other stuff not as popular now.
4 And of course it could mean that sales are down so were not getting more stuff - but I don't think sales are down, so I think 1-3 better represents what the actual question was about.

Like many polls that are done - it's all in how the question is asked or worded. If they really wanted to know 'the ecig frenzy is over' - they'd ask about the level of sales, NOT about "expanding a selection" that might not need expanded or a "selection of offerings" that no longer represent the current market. Or that replacing stock isn't considered an 'expansion'.

It's only the 'conclusion' about that, by the reporter or the editor, that makes it look like 'the ecig frenzy is over'.

 

[Racehorse]

There is a guy from my work who vapes a cigalike. He has been using it for at least a year now and is probably the only person I know still vaping such thing. I don't usually talk to him, but his reactions to my conversations with other vapers lead me to believe that he thinks any flavor that doesn't try to imitate the taste of tobacco is silly and any device that puts out more vapor than a cigarette would put out smoke is beyond silly. I think he prefers something that looks like a cigarette. I don't think he is quitting though, he obviously enjoys vaping as he has been doing it for a long time.

He's clearly a case of someone who has "succeeded" in quitting smoking, we should be celebrating this, not making fun of his choices

A rat who has always lived in a maze probably thinks anything outside the maze is silly. People are defined by the limitations they set for themselves.

Andria

Keeping in mind that is how most non-smokers saw smokers, as rats stuck in a maze by a habit they set for themselves.

 

[Racehorse]

The problem with the information in the article is that it comes from a survey of TOBACCO RETAILERS. Since you typically don't see tanks and mods at your local corner store the information is limited to interest in cigalike products.

Not so. The only stores around me who sell vaping stuff are tobacco stores. They sell mods and eliquid too on the other side of the store. Lots of these around the South.

 

[DC2]

The idea that the electronic cigarette "frenzy" is over is bogus.
I'm not sure it has even begun yet.

But there are powerful forces at work trying to ensure that doesn't happen.
But with all their money, it is hard to stop a grassroots movement once it starts gaining momentum.

This article sounds like a depiction that doesn't take into account the relevant factors.
I say that vaping is growing, and continues to grow.

If the lies and the propaganda would stop, then a "frenzy" might actually start for real.

 

[DaveSignal]

He's clearly a case of someone who has "succeeded" in quitting smoking, we should be celebrating this, not making fun of his choices

I never made fun of his choice. I said I know a guy who vapes cigalikes and thinks that tanks and rdas are silly. He likes something that looks like a cigarette and inhales like a cigarette and tastes like tobacco. I said that there are probably more people like him and this is probably the main kind of market for cigalikes. I am not sure how this is making fun of anyone. This is the market. People who don't want to vape like I do.

 

[Racehorse]

I never made fun of his choice. I said I know a guy who vapes cigalikes and thinks that tanks and rdas are silly. He likes something that looks like a cigarette and inhales like a cigarette and tastes like tobacco. I said that there are probably more people like him and this is probably the main kind of market for cigalikes. I am not sure how this is making fun of anyone. This is the market. People who don't want to vape like I do.

Okay sorry Dave.

I think on a hobbyist forum the idea that people are vaping cigalikes and tiny egos with ce4s is lost. Yet, I have never met a hobbyist vaper in real life.......only on this forum. I imagine it is more common in larger metro areas. That isn't most of the US.

 

[skrymir]

Not so. The only stores around me who sell vaping stuff are tobacco stores. They sell mods and eliquid too on the other side of the store. Lots of these around the South.

Fair enough... I'm from Canada so my experience will be different from most. I know i typically only see cigalikes in places where tobacco products are sold (a few exceptions but even those are prepackaged evo type devices) and that in the last 20 months the number of B&M stores has nearly doubled in my city.

 

[stevegmu]

The new gear coming out of China is for experienced vapers or hobbyists. Expecting someone to start out re-building and using a 200 watt box mod with 3MG/ML e-liquid seems to have less chance of success than cigalikes. China realized the market has peaked in the US and is now making gear for those already vaping, rather than beginners...

 

[DaveSignal]

I don't think it has peaked. I bet they make a lot more money selling multiple products to hobbyist vapers than they do selling a cigalike to a curious smoker who might not even like it.

 

[stevegmu]

I don't think it has peaked. I bet they make a lot more money selling multiple products to hobbyist vapers than they do selling a cigalike to a curious smoker who might not even like it.

But the number of curious smokers is going down, hence the pull back of gas station sales of cigalikes...

 

[AndriaD]

He's clearly a case of someone who has "succeeded" in quitting smoking, we should be celebrating this, not making fun of his choices

I agree, but the point was that he apparently thinks that anything outside *his* experience is "silly" -- a mindset I found in myself when I first started vaping, and couldn't figure out why so many people wanted to "smoke food", or use devices that seemed to resemble sex toys more than cigarettes You see the same thing in tootle puffers who think it's silly to blow big clouds, or cloud chasers who don't see any point at all in tootle puffing as a vaping style -- everyone is "locked" into their own frame of reference, and it really takes some doing to shake some of us out of those locked frames. It's fairly uncommon to find a person who realizes they've locked themselves into something, and is willing to make the effort to escape it -- though vapers of every stripe seem rather successful at it, or they wouldn't even have *tried* vaping, nevermind persevered with it thru all the different setups and styles. Nothing seems to be quite so hard to change as a mind.

Keeping in mind that is how most non-smokers saw smokers, as rats stuck in a maze by a habit they set for themselves.

Yep, and for many smokers, that's exactly what it is, though it's arguable that the stuff BT adds to tobacco creates a an even more stubborn maze for any of us to escape from. But a person who escapes smoking by using cigalikes, who thinks it's "silly" for anyone to use anything else, is still locked in, though the maze has changed slightly -- they still haven't opened themselves to the infinite possibilities which exist.. because they think those possibilities are "silly." That is a self-defined limitation.

Andria

 

[DC2]

I bet they make a lot more money selling multiple products to hobbyist vapers than they do selling a cigalike to a curious smoker who might not even like it.

If you were talking about the Brick and Mortars, I would totally agree.

But the mass-consumption retails stores?
I really can't see that.

 

[pennysmalls]

But the number of curious smokers is going down, hence the pull back of gas station sales of cigalikes...

I doubt that, highly. I see smokers all over my town every single day and I'm betting the majority of them are just like I was. They think vaping is another form of smoking and would rather stick with the "real" thing. There are still so many people who have no clue what vaping even is.

 

[skoony]

The idea that the electronic cigarette "frenzy" is over is bogus.
I'm not sure it has even begun yet.

But there are powerful forces at work trying to ensure that doesn't happen.
But with all their money, it is hard to stop a grassroots movement once it starts gaining momentum.

This article sounds like a depiction that doesn't take into account the relevant factors.
I say that vaping is growing, and continues to grow.

If the lies and the propaganda would stop, then a "frenzy" might actually start for real.

I believe the article just refers to BT ´s share of the e-cig market.
the market as a whole is increasing. I seen a story elsewhere
estimating ten billion by 2017.
regards
mike

 

[stevegmu]

I doubt that, highly. I see smokers all over my town every single day and I'm betting the majority of them are just like I was. They think vaping is another form of smoking and would rather stick with the "real" thing. There are still so many people who have no clue what vaping even is.

I think so many got the coupons and tried them at gas stations by now they are either vapers, smokers or dual users. Those with any interest have tried them by now, hence the slowdown of sales...

 

[Lessifer]

I see three main types of businesses that sell vapor products in my area are:
1. gas stations/c-stores
2. Tobacco shops
3. Vapor shops

1. Seems to be holding steady, possibly expanding, but they usually only carry disposables, cigalikes, or possibly the njoy and haus line of ego/clearo devices and liquids. I have started to see more of them with signs advertising to the effect of "vapor products sold here"
2. These usually carry ego type devices, some even carry mods and rba's. They tend to be overpriced and mixed in with "dry herb" gear, and the staff usually don't know anything about the products. The liquid lines are usually not ones that I've heard of.
3. There was a surge of these opening up over the last few years. Some are still going strong, some have closed already. I think there are a lot of variables here including market saturation, experience levels with the products, experience levels in running a business, etc.

For the most part, I don't think the data from #3 or online sales are being collected in a standard fashion.

I think uncertainty on the legislative side of things also plays a major role. If they're aware of the situation at all, they know it's a risk to invest too heavily on products that may or may not continue.

 

[DC2]

I see three main types of businesses that sell vapor products in my area are:
1. gas stations/c-stores
2. Tobacco shops
3. Vapor shops

Liquor stores jumped on the bandwagon a long time ago here where I live.
They are mostly on the ego/clearo train at this point.

And some even have liquids available.
But I wouldn't buy them if I had a gun to my head.

 

[pennysmalls]

I think so many got the coupons and tried them at gas stations by now they are either vapers, smokers or dual users. Those with any interest have tried them by now, hence the slowdown of sales...

Here in my town our local vape shop has three store fronts now and are building and equipping a warehouse to house their liquid "kitchen" that will be meet Indiana's new standards. They're also installing the state of the art surveillance and locks that will be required. It sounds to me like business is booming.

 

[Lessifer]

Liquor stores jumped on the bandwagon a long time ago here where I live.
They are all on the ego/clearo train at this point.

And some even have liquids available.
But I wouldn't buy them if I had a gun to my head.

I lump those in with convenience stores, and that would also include places like walmart. Basically any store that carries other products, where tobacco/vapor products are not their focus. These stores have limited shelf space, they carry tobacco as a convenience to their customer, something to keep them from stopping somewhere else. They don't necessarily have the display area to dedicate to vapor products or the staff resources to learn about the products. I don't see these locations "expanding" their selections much unless other products drop off in sales.

 

[AndriaD]

I see three main types of businesses that sell vapor products in my area are:
1. gas stations/c-stores
2. Tobacco shops
3. Vapor shops

1. Seems to be holding steady, possibly expanding, but they usually only carry disposables, cigalikes, or possibly the njoy and haus line of ego/clearo devices and liquids. I have started to see more of them with signs advertising to the effect of "vapor products sold here"
2. These usually carry ego type devices, some even carry mods and rba's. They tend to be overpriced and mixed in with "dry herb" gear, and the staff usually don't know anything about the products. The liquid lines are usually not ones that I've heard of.
3. There was a surge of these opening up over the last few years. Some are still going strong, some have closed already. I think there are a lot of variables here including market saturation, experience levels with the products, experience levels in running a business, etc.

For the most part, I don't think the data from #3 or online sales are being collected in a standard fashion.

I think uncertainty on the legislative side of things also plays a major role. If they're aware of the situation at all, they know it's a risk to invest too heavily on products that may or may not continue.

I dunno about liquor stores, haven't been in one in so long, they could have dancing bears in there for all I know. But the "head/adult" type stores around here have picked them up, and you're right, unknown brands, devices that I know are crap just from looking at them in the blister pack. And it's like one rack in the whole store.

I was stunned this past Saturday to learn that a big vape shop in Lawrenceville, the first one I ever found or walked into, was closing; I figured they were an institution, they've been there since 2010-2012, I dunno, a long time before I discovered vaping. But at the same time, it's not really a surprise; I found the place uncomfortable, because they're soooooooooo into the cloud chasing scene; they would barely even wait on me till I showed up with a Kayfun.

Another store in town has grown so enormously in popularity, he's opening another store about 10 miles away in the next little burg -- when we first found it, the place was vacant all the time; now when we happen by there, there's so many people in there you can't get a seat at the tasting bar, and the fog wafts out the door everytime it opens. But this shop, though he has a wide selection of high-end vv/vw and mechs, specializes in good starter kits -- Evods and similar, full kits including several bottles of your choice of juice from their HUGE selection. And I've heard the guy run a newbie thru use and maintenance and getting the most out of it, and he did a fantastic job explaining everything, even explaining about changing the coil and how to know when it was needed. I'm thrilled to see him doing so well and expanding, because that kind of store and B&M owner/mgr is exactly what vaping needs!

Andria