Lorillard, Philip Morris and legistlation
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Opinions range all over the board, and this is the best thread I've seen on the subject...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/290817-lorillard-purchases-blu-e-cigs.html
You also may want to check this out...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...llard-ceo-interview-about-blu-aquisition.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/290817-lorillard-purchases-blu-e-cigs.html
You also may want to check this out...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...llard-ceo-interview-about-blu-aquisition.html
Only if you are in to cig- alikes and prefilled cartidges only, and only available where stinkies are sold.Ardo:7712593 said:
The benefit is that once big tobacco has bought into ecigs (which was inevitable), it becomes extremely unlikely that ecigs will be subject to an outright ban. However we already have that situation in any case.
The negatives are that a big tobacco version of the ecig market is useless for most community members. This is because BT's ecigs can survive under the toughest regulatory climate, but what does it for us is the full and unrestricted range of all possible options. Indeed BT will welcome strict regulation because it will remove competitors.
Their products will comprise minis, with tobacco or menthol flavors only, prefilled cartos only, no refill liquids, sold only on main street. That's all they are interested in.
What we want to see are all the options, which will be at risk: a full range of hardware including 2nd-gen and 3rd-gen devices, all flavors, all head options, all liquid options, with both main street and web sales.
BT's lobbying/pressure money may be useful but they have no reason whatsoever to protect what we see as the raison d'etre of the system: its very wide range of options. In fact they gain if all that disappears.
So what we are left with is protection of the basic system availability (which we already have in the USA), along with not only no protection of what we see as the real value of the system but also a strong motivation to allow that aspect to be regulated away.
It's true that BT will eventually need expansion options when the market is fully saturated with minis, but they can address that problem later on when it needs solving. First they need to fix their marketing, packaging and distribution issues with a whole new product. Phase 1 of their ecig market penetration will last for 10 to 15 years, so it would be to their benefit to see all competitors removed for that time. At around 10 years down the road they can then exert pressure to have the permitted product range expanded gradually, to allow them to expand.
They have no need or desire to see any other than 1st-gen ultra-restricted products around for at least 10 years. At that time they can apply pressure to allow the mid-size models, or whatever other upgrade will be to their benefit. Once they have their main street distribution sorted out, they will be happy to dispense with web sales, and Blucigs (for example) won't suffer at that time as main street will take up the slack caused by a ban on web sales.
The negatives are that a big tobacco version of the ecig market is useless for most community members. This is because BT's ecigs can survive under the toughest regulatory climate, but what does it for us is the full and unrestricted range of all possible options. Indeed BT will welcome strict regulation because it will remove competitors.
Their products will comprise minis, with tobacco or menthol flavors only, prefilled cartos only, no refill liquids, sold only on main street. That's all they are interested in.
What we want to see are all the options, which will be at risk: a full range of hardware including 2nd-gen and 3rd-gen devices, all flavors, all head options, all liquid options, with both main street and web sales.
BT's lobbying/pressure money may be useful but they have no reason whatsoever to protect what we see as the raison d'etre of the system: its very wide range of options. In fact they gain if all that disappears.
So what we are left with is protection of the basic system availability (which we already have in the USA), along with not only no protection of what we see as the real value of the system but also a strong motivation to allow that aspect to be regulated away.
It's true that BT will eventually need expansion options when the market is fully saturated with minis, but they can address that problem later on when it needs solving. First they need to fix their marketing, packaging and distribution issues with a whole new product. Phase 1 of their ecig market penetration will last for 10 to 15 years, so it would be to their benefit to see all competitors removed for that time. At around 10 years down the road they can then exert pressure to have the permitted product range expanded gradually, to allow them to expand.
They have no need or desire to see any other than 1st-gen ultra-restricted products around for at least 10 years. At that time they can apply pressure to allow the mid-size models, or whatever other upgrade will be to their benefit. Once they have their main street distribution sorted out, they will be happy to dispense with web sales, and Blucigs (for example) won't suffer at that time as main street will take up the slack caused by a ban on web sales.
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roly, how I wish I could say you are wrong, but, I have to say, I see it your way. 
I've been saying this since Lorillard bought Blu. The handwriting has been on the wall since then. They have no reason at all to allow us to continue doing things our way and using what we like. They have every reason to protect their product style and lobby the FDA to keep it their product style only. They also have the money and the connections to make their wishes come true.
Learning to DIY and stockpiling gear are your only defense if you want anything but Blu type gear and juice.
Learning to DIY and stockpiling gear are your only defense if you want anything but Blu type gear and juice.
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And I am getting into RBA's, and stockpiling cartos, and nic. I'm also buying the better pv's that should run trouble free for quite a while.
Roly, I was going to "like" you're comment but it seemed the wrong thing to do. I liked your appraisal of the situation, but hated the content of the message. With the completion of Election 2012 and the results, I think we may start seeing some unpleasant changes now coming very quickly.
I wouldn't say that operations like Blucigs have an incentive to help destroy the rest of the market at this time; rather, that they simply have no incentive to protect it. Blu can't really capitalise on their assets yet because it takes time to organise a marketing plan for nationwide distribution, packaging, advertising and so on. It will take as much as a year to see them really punching their weight on main street. At that point, there is less incentive for them to help protect everyone else against any new regulations, which they will easily be able to comply with.
The more that large-scale industry (of any kind) invests in ecigs, the better - up to a point. We need their money in order to resist regulations that will immediately remove ecigs, or the killer stealth regulations that are even more likely. After some time, a process begins whereby new entrants need to maximise their income, and the number-one method in any highly-regulated market is to get regulations introduced that remove your competitors.
The pharmaceutical industry are the kings of this; for example their recent EU regs to remove natural health products is a masterstroke. It removes most of the significant competition in that area, leaving pharma products as either the only choice or equal in cost (or cheaper than) what were previously much cheaper organic competitors, now that the natural products have to have a pharmaceutical license (it's cost £750k per product to get the necessary pharma license, so only the big players are left in the game despite 30 years of evidence the products are safe).
Maybe if you're a romantic you might believe it's possible for giant corporations to come into a market and leave it all exactly as it was before; but eventually they have to kill off everyone who can't protect themselves. It's just business.
The more that large-scale industry (of any kind) invests in ecigs, the better - up to a point. We need their money in order to resist regulations that will immediately remove ecigs, or the killer stealth regulations that are even more likely. After some time, a process begins whereby new entrants need to maximise their income, and the number-one method in any highly-regulated market is to get regulations introduced that remove your competitors.
The pharmaceutical industry are the kings of this; for example their recent EU regs to remove natural health products is a masterstroke. It removes most of the significant competition in that area, leaving pharma products as either the only choice or equal in cost (or cheaper than) what were previously much cheaper organic competitors, now that the natural products have to have a pharmaceutical license (it's cost £750k per product to get the necessary pharma license, so only the big players are left in the game despite 30 years of evidence the products are safe).
Maybe if you're a romantic you might believe it's possible for giant corporations to come into a market and leave it all exactly as it was before; but eventually they have to kill off everyone who can't protect themselves. It's just business.
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@Rothenbj
(Not sure what you mean, maybe you could explain? Sorry.)
I'm just a realist. It doesn't pay to be a romantic, that's nice in films and dreams.
(Not sure what you mean, maybe you could explain? Sorry.)
I'm just a realist. It doesn't pay to be a romantic, that's nice in films and dreams.
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Lorillard Tobacco CEO on Blu Cigs Purchase, Plans for the future (Video) | Ecig Advanced News
Interesting interview with Lorillard CEO Murray Kessler here. I think all current vendors should watch this and learn out to read between the lines. He speaks about his current relationship with the FDA and how BluEcig WILL have input on regulations.
Interesting interview with Lorillard CEO Murray Kessler here. I think all current vendors should watch this and learn out to read between the lines. He speaks about his current relationship with the FDA and how BluEcig WILL have input on regulations.
thanks rolygate. That was profoundly explained. As much as I'd like to see the world through pink shades, I'm afraid you've got it right.
What we need is some big company to invest in an "upscale market." Just about every industry has a "luxury brand" sector that makes people a LOT of money, so it flourishes even with the huge amount of sales going to the low-end, mass market (Olive Garden vs. Parm, Porche vs. Toyota, etc.) So they just need to "sell" refill liquids as "Designer Liquids," eGos and other mass-produced larger batteries as "Professional/Advanced Models" and mods as "Limited Collector's Editions!"
I can see a market similar to the cigar industry. There are the gas station varieties, then there are the upscale luxury brands. Why would it be any different with e cigs? It isn't now since there are plenty of e cig snobs on this forum just as there are the minimalists who still prefer cig like e cigs. That would be me.
If you listen to this closely you will hear exactly what is going to happen to our ecig world. Regulated to death till only the big boys remain. You will not be able to compete with these guys once the FDA and commerce guys get done with all the requirements and restrictions. I foresee nic juice being a controlled and regulated substance for the "safety" of the consumer... In other words BT will keep control over "their" drug. Drug wars.... what a joke...
- Apr 2, 2009
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There are many naive gloom and doom comments posted on this thread that won't happen unless the vast majority of e-cigarette companies and consumers roll over and let the FDA impose unwarranted and devastating regulations on e-cigarettes.
Lorillard, PM, Reynolds and other companies will protect their own perceived interests, which is why e-cigarette companies and consumers need to tell the FDA, their Congressman and the public to reject unwarranted and excessive regulations.
Lorillard, PM, Reynolds and other companies will protect their own perceived interests, which is why e-cigarette companies and consumers need to tell the FDA, their Congressman and the public to reject unwarranted and excessive regulations.
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