Making your own nicotine e-liquid with Copenhagen Pouches

[AttyPops]

That's not a lot of nicotine considering commercial e-liquid has (normally) between 8mg and 36mg nicotine per ml.

Agreed and good point. I'm not sure, though, that you want them the same. Depends on the effective nicotine delivery, which for this juice, may be different due to the other tobacco ingredients, PH of the liquid, etc. I'm surely not an expert, so you are probably correct. If I experimented with this, however, I'd sure start at a low nic dose just in case it is absorbed differently.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Yes I agree it could be that other factors are at work, I don't know enough about it. I found this which could be worth a look into - How can I EXTRACT NICOTINE from PLANTS OR TOBACCO ? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[chrispare]

Responses:
AttyPops - To answer your questions in order...

Q:"What table do you sit at? Why?"
A:Table B, of course. This is obviously because I don't want to dip or smoke, just vape.

Qoes table B taste better?
A:Yes, very much so. There's no need to brush your teeth after.

Qoes table B give you better MAOI effects?
A:I really don't think it makes a difference. I can't imagine it's really that different than the premixed tobacco flavored e-juice you would get from your vendor.

Q:Is table B better tobacco flavored juice?
A:Better than I've experienced with other tobacco flavored e-liquids.

Q:What is the motivation for making/using the juice?
A:It was to make the cost of using my e-cig as low as possible while enjoying the experience as much as possible.

Q:Is it a "just in case I run out" kind of thing?
A:No

Q:Is is less expensive (for the same perceived/effective nic level)?
A:Less expensive would be a great understatement. If you could make your own e-juice for $12 per 6oz instead of buying it for around $100, wouldn't you?

Q:Table A is probably a more complete use of the nicotine, etc. in the juice (and thus less expensive). And you don't have to inhale it. Table B may be the world's best tobacco flavored juice?
A:Is this a question or a statement?

Q:What's your experience using the juice?
A:So far, I've only made a few batches. I still have to mix in the PG to really get the right balance of the flavor and vapor quality.

Response:
Mathew R Taylor - The only thing I can tell you is that it works for me and it's really friggin' cheap to make. If the experiment was a failure, I would have only lost $12.

Papa Lazarou - "That's not a lot of nicotine considering commercial e-liquid has (normally) between 8mg and 36mg nicotine per ml. "
That's why I was surprised by the great taste. I usually vape with 18mg e-liquid, though I just switched from 24mg about a month ago.

Response:
AttyPops -

"Seems that with all the added chemicals you get this way vs purchased nic juice, you could just as well use the pouches (dip) and just vape VG with flavors. At least then, you'd inhale less of the unwanted chemicals since you spit (I don't chew, so I'm not sure of the Copenhagen Pouches. Maybe they are a snuss?)

Either way, seems like it would be even more cost effective/efficient to just chew/spit & vape flavored 0nic vg.

Why go through the hassle of the juice prep? I must be missing something. Please explain. Thx. "

I just stumbled across another post with some enlightening info you may be interested in...
"I am asked not to give detailed percentages for obvious reaons of trade secret... but this is the basis of ALL our liquids. Add to this list the nicotine in 6 mg, 11 mg and 16 mg and you have it all.

All our liquids, either used for cartridges or sold as liquid bottle are APPROVED TUV and approved by the University of Naples, Italy and the Italian Ministry of Health as SAFE and LEGAL for sale.

INGRREDIENTS:
menthol
3-methylcyclopentan-1
2-dione
1-malic acid
2,3,5,6-tetramethylpyrazine
2,3,5-trimethylpyrazine
beta-damescenone
acetylpyrazine
2-acetylpyridine
ethanol
rhodinol
vanillin
propylene glycol "

This was posted by the member "Ludo" on post #7 located here: "Forum>The E-Cigarette>General E-Smoking Discussion>Ingredients in cartridges or E-liquid"

Here's another site describing a different set of ingredients:
https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d49h887_2cxsvv8hb

Point is, unless you are not vaping, you are still inhaling something your body doesn't need. Of course we all know it is safer than smoking, but not everyone realizes that it's main purpose is to aid in removing the killing agents from our lives that are found in cigs and other tobacco products.

The first statement I made in this post was essentially to tell everyone that I don't really know what I am doing. Until I find evidence that this blend I've come up with is detrimental to my health, I'll continue to enjoy the fruits of my labor. If anyone is wondering, I have been avidly searching for reasons not to continue use in order to ensure I am not endangering myself.

Here are the Material Safety Data Sheets for the "questionable" Copenhagen pouches ingredients:

Ammonium Carbonate
Ammonium Carbonate

ETHYL ALCOHOL COMPLETELY DENATURED
ETHYL ALCOHOL COMPLETELY DENATURED

SODIUM CARBONATE ANHYDROUS
SODIUM CARBONATE ANHYDROUS

 

[Mathew R Taylor]

Response:
Mathew R Taylor - The only thing I can tell you is that it works for me and it's really friggin' cheap to make. If the experiment was a failure, I would have only lost $12.

LOL Thus said by every famous DIYer - Well said

 

[Warped3k]

Thread moved to the Liquid Extraction from Tobacco sub-forum.

 

[doots]

Even more ways to save on your nic habit by Tropical Bob..

YouTube - Save on Your Tobacco Habit

YouTube - Spend Less on Your Tobacco Habit VI

YouTube - Save on Your Tobacco Habit

forgot the good one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqkB7rhk2rI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ZgjbOZ2us&NR=1

I found these a year ago on Ecf..

Great info TB!!

 

[chrispare]

Just checked out all the posted Youtube vids... Amazing Tropical Bob!

 

[doots]

Just checked out all the posted Youtube vids... Amazing Tropical Bob!

Yap. TB has it down. Wish some sub forum suppliers would make these vids a Sticky...

 

[Hotwire]

Table B nor A gives the maoi's. But I wish I had them in my juice. And when e-liquid makers can find a way of adding them so we get that 'relaxing' feeling (we all are grown up enough to know that pure nicotine only stimulates the cns) the industry will have grown up and I will be able to stop smoking cigs completely rather than supplementing my vaping with 4 -5 cigs a day.

 

[Lyndagayle]

Even more ways to save on your nic habit by Tropical Bob..

YouTube - Save on Your Tobacco Habit

YouTube - Spend Less on Your Tobacco Habit VI

YouTube - Save on Your Tobacco Habit

forgot the good one
YouTube - Spend Less on your Tobacco Habit II

YouTube - Spend Less on Your Tobacco Habit IV

I found these a year ago on Ecf..

Great info TB!!

I tried to watch each of these videos and all I get is a black screen. I can hear the voice but no picture.

 

[Shantia]

- In the event I want to take this to an enterprising level, to potential cut on costs (though at this point a pretty distant what-if)

Mathew

I would be very upset buying something like this with out being fully warned before hand. I vape to get away from additives and the harmful things about any nicotine products on the market today, lung issues, mouth cancer, throat cancer. Might i still eventually develop issues like that, yes. But do i want to buy from a guy who makes home made nicotine from a processed product i'm trying to get away from? Not really.

 

[mjones]

Just food for thought, most dip has fiber glass in it, so when you apply it to your lip, it makes tiny cuts in your lip. This is so you can absorb the nic faster. If you do make juice out of it, I would figure out some kind of filter device, so you dont vape fiberglass. Newports and I'm sure various other brands of cigs also have fiberglass particles in them, from what i hear through the grapevine, so ppl have been inhale'n it for a long time, still prlly not great for you.

 

[TomCatt]

Wikipedia

Additives

There are few reports confirming what additives smokeless tobacco contains, and it is very likely that brands vary in the kinds and amounts of additives used. There is a widespread urban myth that fiberglass is added to smokeless tobacco to increase the efficiency of nicotine absorption, which is not true. Although small, glass-like particles can be seen in snus, this may be due to the formation of salt crystals.[11]

.........

 

[ScooterGirl]

I would be very upset buying something like this with out being fully warned before hand. I vape to get away from additives and the harmful things about any nicotine products on the market today, lung issues, mouth cancer, throat cancer. Might i still eventually develop issues like that, yes. But do i want to buy from a guy who makes home made nicotine from a processed product i'm trying to get away from? Not really.

It all depends on what tobacco they use to extract the flavor. I agree that one wants to steer clear of standard offerings from Big T (who are famous for their 599 additives) but there are a great many smaller tobacco companies that offer premium tobacco with far fewer, if any, additives. As an RYO smoker before I became enamored of vaping I was blown away by the difference between premium low additive tobacco and the crap pumped out by Big T.

 

[chaoticbear]

Just food for thought, most dip has fiber glass in it, so when you apply it to your lip, it makes tiny cuts in your lip. This is so you can absorb the nic faster. If you do make juice out of it, I would figure out some kind of filter device, so you dont vape fiberglass. Newports and I'm sure various other brands of cigs also have fiberglass particles in them, from what i hear through the grapevine, so ppl have been inhale'n it for a long time, still prlly not great for you.

This is patently false. Snopes says no for the cigarettes, and common sense says no for the dip. Mucous membranes are perfectly good at absorbing things without having small cuts made in them.

 

[juicyfer]

This is patently false. Snopes says no for the cigarettes, and common sense says no for the dip. Mucous membranes are perfectly good at absorbing things without having small cuts made in them.

I don't know about the menthol cigarettes,have always heard that, but I dipped copenhagen for years and obviously you haven't? Because it has either fiberglass, or just glass in it,because I used to pick pieces out of it,but kept dipping it till I started vaping, and quit both cold turkey with no problems using 36mg juice!

 

[Traver]

The assumed mg/ml content would be 0.276mg/ml.

This is interesting but considering the low nic level are you sure you need nicotine in you juice. Have you tried vaping without nic. Just doesn't seem like you would be getting enough to make a difference. Am I missing something?

 

[CMC]

I'm surprised to see so many negative or pessimistic comments regarding this post. An ounce of liquid will last me a week, so of course I had to check this out! I just picked up a can of camel winterchill and mixed everything up. I may steep it for a day or so but I'll update if anyone is interested. Or just pm, either way I'm excited to have an "instant ejuice" option available


[UPDATE 1-10-12]

After six hours of steeping the solution smelled well enough to use as a flavor. Twelve hours of steeping and the solution seemed to have at least 6mg per 1ml of nicotine. VG like others have said is not an aggressive enough liquid to extract before the bags begin to sour (think tea bags overnight). Maybe I'll try again with PG and a PG/VG mix in the future. Forgot to mention I used 1 snus bag per ounce of VG. Seems like 1 per ounce yields 6mg per 1ml but I have no scientific credentials so it's all speculation atm. Maybe the VG causes a placebo effect maybe not, but the effects appeared to be along the lines of traditional cigarettes.

I'll leave an old thread alone, VG would make a great base nicotine solution but will definitely mute the amount of flavor these bags are capable of producing..... I imagine that PG will take less time and produce a higher nicotine content per ml but like I said, all dust in the wind atm.

PM if you want to stay updated. I may post about this in the future if I can obtain some real results.

-----------------AS STATED ABOVE THIS IS JUST AN EXPERIMENT!!! I HAVE NO CREDENTIALS AS A CHEMIST!!!----------------------

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

Oh, it's nice when old threads like this one see some action, IMHumbleO. As you can see from the thread I started a few days ago ("impatient newbie strikes again" - any and all comments and answers to my silly all too general questions are very welcome!), you are not the only one experimenting and tinkering and not really knowing exactly what they are doing.

EDIT: Oh, please please continue updating! Either here (I think this is a good place), or create your own thread. Even if we are just gathering anecdata here, it is valuable - and fun! - to read about other people's experiments.

My highly unqualified thought on trying to gauge how much nic is extracted from x amount of tobacco is
"Don't bother trying to calculate this".
Just go by taste and/or effect, and be careful.

Why? Several reasons:
- What is printed on a package is a calculated average
- This average is probably* meant to reflect what a typical person would absorb from this product
- This "average person" is just that, a construct**
- Without knowing _exactly_ how this figure is arrived at, it is totally meaningless when using the product in another way

So we have (at least) three instances of averaging, piled on top of another. And even if we accept these as "good enough", the fact that we are doing something else with the product than smoking it or placing it between gum and lip, makes it all completely meaningless.

Unfortunately I don't think we have a usable DIY method for testing nic-strength in non-standardized liquids, especially not strongly coloured liquids. If wish we had one, even just a crude one for determining whether PG/VG/PGA/DW was more effective relative to one another.
Though I think that even with such a thing the likelyhood that results wouldn't be general to ALL tobacco products (even of the same type) is pretty high. Something like that would still be a great tool, though. Even if for every tobacco blend you'd have to run it again.

*I base this mostly on the little I know (or knew, it's been a long time since I read anything serious about it) about how these figures are arrived at for cigarettes. I have a hazy recollection of reading about how BT (at least at one point) nudged this figures lower by the design of the filter: gave them a nice low value when tested by a "smoking machine", but didn't reflect the way most smokers smoked (compressing the filter slightly, covering air-holes, drawing much harder etc).

**BTW this holds true for kcal given for food too - except there it isn't even that, it's measured by combustion => energy values for food are meaningless except as a very very crude relative value.
Don't believe me? Consider this: the kcal value for lactose in milk is xx/gram. Is this true for someone who is lactose intolerant?

 

[CMC]

especially not strongly coloured liquids

Completely forgot to mention the amber tint and candy cane smell (I'd imagine the PG version would have a taste similar to Menthol Smooth). If the solution was PG I doubt I would be able to use the same strength without having to cut the nicotine content. We all know how temperamental nicotine absorption can be