Man Severely Injured After eCigarette Blows Up In His Face

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crunchie812

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I saw this thread yesterday morning. Then when I was at work one of my co-workers, a fellow vaper, started hollering and trying to get something out of his hip pocket. It was stuck, so he shucked his pants, which were smoldering, and ran out the back door in his boxers.

His mod was fine, but his cell phone was slagged.

batteries...
 

Scotticus93

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I've seen a lot of news about mods exploding, injuries etc. and every time this happens we here at the forums discuss what happened andhow it could have been avoided, but the reality is that we always start talking about b&m irresponsibility for selling something to someone that doesn't know hot to use it, and it's true, but maybe we are wrong there...

I think mod makers, even clones should come with a warning and information about battery safety and ohms law etc. and I think us, the vapers should come up with that warning and then us asking all modmakers to print it and include it on their product. how hard could it be? it's definitely easier than to educate every b&m employee. just place a small receipt size paper with everything the buyer needs to understand before using it, eg. type of battery, recomended type of atties, etc.

it could be a copy/paste legend at least, so if they buy a mod and not knowing anything at least they know they need to take special care on certain areas

just my two cents
Most mods I have bought recently. The site has a disclaimer (albeit in somewhat small print) thet you need to use high quality batteries and not go super sub ohm. Good sites like 101 and vapor dna have such disclaimers and makers like kanger with their subox and Kbox also have that on the box. I can't speak for bricks and mortar cuz I've never bought a mod from one. I wouldn't be surprised if some didn't warn people. But it's still on the box and in the instruction manual for even cheap Chinese mods. Probably trying to avoid lawsuits. I also seen warnings about using cheap chargers too on sites.
 

The Ocelot

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Yes, the reason is stupid politicians who don't understand anything about the subject they are making the rules for.
Next year this rule will be in affect across the entire EU.....as wil be the rule that we can't buy liquids with nicotine in bottles larger than 10ml :censored:

There is a lawsuite against this legislation pending on 1st of october....but I don't expect much of this.....so we are obliged to buy our good stuff abroad

I understand the real reason, but have they stated a reason for why 2ml is okay, but 2.5ml isn't?

Can you buy two 10ml bottles at the same time? Of the same flavor? And an empty 20ml bottle?
 

The Ocelot

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sounds like they are trying to limit the total amount of juice on hand that can cause a potential poisoning....

Of course! The children in their country should be eating laundry pods like kids in the U.S.

Thousands of children at risk from eating laundry pods, study finds - TODAY.com

laundry_pod_dangers.jpg
 

vapero

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a hard short occurs when the negative part of the case ( for example the 510 threads - side) touches the + tab of the battery.... a cut in the wrapper goes into auto fire

that's what I said, if you put the bat negative down you get autofire, but if you turn it upside down as suggested above you will get a hard short as the boddy of the mod will be positive and the sides of the bat negative
 

vapero

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Most mods I have bought recently. The site has a disclaimer (albeit in somewhat small print) thet you need to use high quality batteries and not go super sub ohm. Good sites like 101 and vapor dna have such disclaimers and makers like kanger with their subox and Kbox also have that on the box. I can't speak for bricks and mortar cuz I've never bought a mod from one. I wouldn't be surprised if some didn't warn people. But it's still on the box and in the instruction manual for even cheap Chinese mods. Probably trying to avoid lawsuits. I also seen warnings about using cheap chargers too on sites.

I know and that is really great! but we should move a step up and ask modders to include in their boxes as well

If you do really believe that your mechs are safer then a well designed regulated, as in Provari or Evolv, that constantly monitors battery health, you have crawled a long way down the rabbit hole of delusion. Certainly not someone I would trust to give me good advice.

I know of no one on this thread that has called for a ban, though this is the second time you have claimed it.

Your comparison to trucks is a bit bizarre, but instructive in its own way. Of course it is illegal for teenagers to drive a large truck (you actually need a special license to drive one), but essentially anyone can buy a mech and use one, including teens. I am really not at all sure what the point is.

a mech mod has no electronics, so yes, a well designed mech has nothing to go wrong that isn't user error, if you know how to use it perfectly then there won't be any surprises (like a chip going haywire)
you DO need how to use it
 

drugarth

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I understand the real reason, but have they stated a reason for why 2ml is okay, but 2.5ml isn't?

Can you buy two 10ml bottles at the same time? Of the same flavor? And an empty 20ml bottle?

this is what I found in the legislation:
The requirements are aimed at avoiding liquid containing nicotine from being released or traded in large quantities
and:
with refill packages that contain large quantities of nicotine there is a possible risk of nicotine poisoning

article in the TPD itself:
Nicotine-containing liquid should only be allowed to be placed on the market under this Directive, where the nicotine concentration does not exceed 20 mg/ml. This concentration allows for a delivery of nicotine that is comparable to the permitted dose of nicotine derived from a standard cigarette during the time needed to smoke such a cigarette. In order to limit the risks associated with nicotine, maximum sizes for refill containers, tanks and cartridges should be set.

The whole thing can be found at : Updated info post: TPD – provisions relating to e-cigarettes « The counterfactual

So it is all about the fear of nicotine poisoning....I can somewhat agree to the limitations on nicotine percentage, but not in size off bottles or tanks....that's just ridiculous

But yes you can buy 100's of bottles if you want at the same time....so it makes no sense what so ever
 
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Robino1

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But yes you can buy 100's of bottles if you want at the same time....so it makes no sense what so ever
Kind of like New York limiting the size of a soft drink that they could purchase at a fast food establishment but not limit the number of said soft drinks. :rolleyes:
 

skoony

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Kind of like New York limiting the size of a soft drink that they could purchase at a fast food establishment but not limit the number of said soft drinks. :rolleyes:
Could they be headed toward a one size (1 pack) sort of arrangement to
simplify the tax structure?
regards
mike
 

Scotticus93

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Those look like these:
efest3500.jpg

26650 Efest 3500mAh IMR26650 High Discharge Flat Top

Only 15 amps continuous discharge rate according to Illumn, a very reputable battery distributor. Looks like you got swindled. Let me guess: Ebay or Amazon?
A guy in another thread so continuous just means for hours on end and pulse means anywhere from 30 to 90 seconds cuz these batteries were designed for power tools. Idk how true that is. But if thats true but if it is. We have way more headroom on these batteries than we think. Considering most people wouldn't pull on a e cig for more than 10 seconds max
 

vapero

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A guy in another thread so continuous just means for hours on end and pulse means anywhere from 30 to 90 seconds cuz these batteries were designed for power tools. Idk how true that is. But if thats true but if it is. We have way more headroom on these batteries than we think. Considering most people wouldn't pull on a e cig for more than 10 seconds max

yes you are right but it is wise to keep the power at the continuous in case something goes wrong and keeps autofiring without you knowing it, that is the difference between a dead battery and a vent
 

Lessifer

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A guy in another thread so continuous just means for hours on end and pulse means anywhere from 30 to 90 seconds cuz these batteries were designed for power tools. Idk how true that is. But if thats true but if it is. We have way more headroom on these batteries than we think. Considering most people wouldn't pull on a e cig for more than 10 seconds max
The problem with pulse ratings is that there is no standard definition. It could be anything less than 30s, or it could be less than 1s, or less than a few nano seconds, who knows?

When you're putting something with the potential to vent violently near your face, how much guessing do you want to do with the numbers?
 

papergoblin

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Okay and someone or ones may have stated this and I missed, if so sorry to repeat.

I started looking into this more and it doesn't add up to me. The battery went boom supposedly, okay but how does the roof of his mouth have a hole, he has a broke finger and neck.

Look at the pics, mod still looks pretty solid, there's still a decent amount of glass attached to the Atty and the drip tip is there.

I don't see if it had that much force how the tank is still on the mod, to mess up the roof of his mouth, seems to me the head in the tank should have blown out at the very least.

The only thing I can figure is cheap/ knock off battery or wrong chemistry battery, that vented with flame. I'm wondering if it isn't exactly a hole in the roof of his mouth but more so burned.

Hand looks burned but not sure how a finger broke unless the back side of the mod has a hole in it. Then too have no idea about a broke neck unless he jerked back so hard.

Maybe I missed some pics of this mod showing a lot of destruction and if so ignore what I've said, but this seems like something else going on or being blown out of proportion.
 
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Scotticus93

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The problem with pulse ratings is that there is no standard definition. It could be anything less than 30s, or it could be less than 1s, or less than a few nano seconds, who knows?

When you're putting something with the potential to vent violently near your face, how much guessing do you want to do with the numbers?
I don run that high of amps myself. I stay within reasonable range and use a samsung 25r in a regulated mod. I was once fascinated with cloud chasing but it seems dumb to me. Now someone was telling me to buy a higher capacity battery for more battery life. But idk whether to do that or give myself that headroom in a regulated device. I was looking at getting lg he2 next or sony vtc4. Both reasonably priced cuz you get a couple for 15 bucks. Which do y'all recommend?
 

Scotticus93

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I know and that is really great! but we should move a step up and ask modders to include in their boxes as well



a mech mod has no electronics, so yes, a well designed mech has nothing to go wrong that isn't user error, if you know how to use it perfectly then there won't be any surprises (like a chip going haywire)
you DO need how to use it
So like include a separate safety sheet within the box the mod comes in? Sounds like a good idea but how many consumer products do that? Do toasters come with a sheet that says don't stick a fork in this thing when it's on?! It can only go so far. Like y'all said nothing is idiot proof. Look how many gun accidents happen everyday. Should the government take away our guns? Nobody would like that. FDA can take my mod from over my dead body. Sometimes fox and the government take it too far IMO
 

Baditude

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A guy in another thread so continuous just means for hours on end and pulse means anywhere from 30 to 90 seconds cuz these batteries were designed for power tools. Idk how true that is. But if thats true but if it is. We have way more headroom on these batteries than we think. Considering most people wouldn't pull on a e cig for more than 10 seconds max
The "maximum continuous discharge rate" (CDR) is the industry standard for measuring the current output of a battery. Being that it is an industry standard, one can easily compare battery specs from one manufacturer to another.

Pulse or peak discharge rates can literally be anything, from milliseconds to a minute. Not being a universal standard makes comparing specs between brands impossible. Each manufacturer has a different definition of what a pulse rating is, so using the term is worthless. Some manufacturers or vendors are cleverly and intentionally deceptive by misleading consumers by using terms like "maximum discharge rating", "XX amps", and not being specific with the specification terminology to allow consumers to make a wise choice. You won't find the more reputable manufacturers/vendors doing this, so if the specifications look too good to be true, you're absolutely right.

The issue for consumers is how honest is the manufacturer when advertising their specs. The major players in the battery industry (LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony) actually make their own cells, are the industry leaders in technological advances, and don't need to advertise false inflated specifications.

The other manufacturers who don't make their own cells buy their cells from the above companies (as first, second, or third tier in quality), re-wrap the cells with their own label, and either advertise the genuine specs or mislead consumers by advertising inflated ratings to make their battery appear to be "better". This is because the battery industry is extremely competitive, and there are no regulation agencies policing the industry. Being based in China, these companies can not be sued for false advertising or selling a used battery harvested from old computers which has been rewrapped and sold as new.


Continuous Discharge Ratings vs Pulse (Burst) Discharge Ratings, Why You Need to Know the Difference

The "continuous discharge rating" in amps is the standard specification for amp limits within the battery industry. It is a determination made by the manufacturer and represents the amp limit a battery can be safely used before it will fail.

The "pulse or burst" discharge rating is not a specification standard within the battery industry. Every manufacturer or vendor seems to have their own definition of what the pulse rating is.

A pulse discharge rating is any use above the continuous discharge rating. It is never safe and not within the intended operating parameters of the battery. You should not operate your device above the continuous rating if you can help it. The pulse rating is a condition in which the battery is on basically a buildup to failure. It is exceeding the sustainable and intended discharge rate of the battery. It is inappropriate for a consumer device to operate in the pulse range of its battery.

Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating. Any failure, mechanical or electronic, that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode. If your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse and burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are already running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse), there is no margin of safety.

I am of the mindset that you should leave a margin of safety when deciding what resistance coil to use. We probably place too much faith into cheap ohm readers in being precise and accurate. Also, a RDA's post screw unknowingly coming loose can greatly drop the coil's resistance (by 0.5 ohms from personal experience).

Everyone is free to set their own parameters, and I can only say what mine are.

I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20A battery, that would be 10A. An Ohm's Law Calculator tells me that a .4 ohm build is as low as I would want to use allowing or some headroom.

The reason that I place a 50% limit is because as a battery ages the mAh of the battery degrades, as the mAh degrades so does the batteries C rating (amp limit). So down the road, your 20A battery may only be a 10A battery.
 
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The Ocelot

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Okay and someone or ones may have stated this and I missed, if so sorry to repeat.

I started looking into this more and it doesn't add up to me. The battery went boom supposedly, okay but how does the roof of his mouth have a hole, he has a broke finger and neck.

Look at the pics, mod still looks pretty solid, there's still a decent amount of glass attached to the Atty and the drip tip is there.

I don't see if it had that much force how the tank is still on the mod, to mess up the roof of his mouth, seems to me the head in the tank should have blown out at the very least.

The only thing I can figure is cheap/ knock off battery or wrong chemistry battery, that vented with flame. I'm wondering if it isn't exactly a hole in the roof of his mouth but more so burned.

Hand looks burned but not sure how a finger broke unless the back side of the mod has a hole in it. Then too have no idea about a broke neck unless he jerked back so hard.

Maybe I missed some pics of this mod showing a lot of destruction and if so ignore what I've said, but this seems like something else going on or being blown out of proportion.

All we can do is speculate, as the mechanics of the accident won't be reported in the media. "If it bleeds, it leads." If it stops bleeding, find another one.
 

papergoblin

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Pulse rating from what I was told by a Surefire (flashlight company) rep, is millisecond measurement by their standards. They use it when selecting battery design in high drain units for bulbs bursting or shorting. It is also used to figure the inital load from a device of to on.

He went further to say that as an end user of any device, the best thing to do is ignore pulse rate and Max rate. He stated the continuous discharge amperage is what is important, pulse and Max are for failsafe information.

Now this is for flashlights but the info makes good sense to carry over to our uses as well. So basically use a battery below the continuous discharge rate and if something seems wonky, stop use and switch to another battery, device, build, etc. It is better to be over cautious than hurt.
 

skoony

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A guy in another thread so continuous just means for hours on end and pulse means anywhere from 30 to 90 seconds cuz these batteries were designed for power tools. Idk how true that is. But if thats true but if it is. We have way more headroom on these batteries than we think. Considering most people wouldn't pull on a e cig for more than 10 seconds max
30 years ago when i was in school maximum current draw was rated in milli-seconds
unless other wise stated. Today with these batteries designed for power tools I suppose
these times have been extended to account for the amperage the tools can draw at
initial start up or when reverse torque such as a saw getting bogged down or a drill
getting snagged happens. With critical equipment implementations these specs are more
for designing circuit breakers and other built in safety circuitry to shut the circuit down
in time and not destroy the battery.
Regards
Mike
 
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