Man tackled by concert security over eCig

[Bad Ninja]

what part of the OP didn't you read?
security thought it was a laser pointer.
regards
mike

Did you read it?
That's the whole point.
They were wrong. There was no laser pointer.
No rule or law was broken.

The guards did not follow the law or proper procedure, and in fact violated the law.

It's obvious they weren't cops. Cops know better and would have asked to see the device before grabbing the citizen.

Professionalism and proper procedure could have avoided the entire scene.
Unfortunately there was none of either.

What the world needs now is more frivolous lawsuits.

Frivolous?
What if that was you that got choked out for vaping?
Your spouse? Your child?
Assaulted for not breaking the law?

 

[Thespis]

well that's the whole point here.
why is it assumed that security is at fault?

Because they were wrong about what the man had when they choked him.

i can and would put my hands on you and harm you
if necessary if you were about to fire bomb a daycare
center.

We're talking about a guy with an ecig at a concert. Hyperbole much?

do not confuse necessary force with assault.

Do not confuse assault with necessary force. In this case, the force was obviously not necessary. You're talking like these guards have the same benefit of the doubt that the law gives LEO's. They don't.
If I'm in a public place and you (private citizen) harm me because you mistakenly think my ecig is something dangerous, your good intentions are irrelevant in the eyes of the law. As a private citizen you have to be absolutely sure before you put your hands on someone. If not, you have committed a crime.

 

[skoony]

They must have different laws where you live. A police officer with a badge and gun has no right to use excessive force beyond what’s necessary to arrest a suspect and keep police and bystanders safe.

i agree whole heartily.
we do not know because no one has stated the policy
concerning laser pointers.(and flash photography)
generally its stated that the use of restricted devices is grounds
for removal from the venue.
now its a mater of determining how one is to be removed.
regards
mike

 

[edyle]

I'm reminded of the 12 year old boy playing with a toy gun shot by police last year Nov 2014.

Tamir Rice: police release video of 12-year-old's fatal shooting – video | US news | The Guardian

 

[bluecat]

" I don't entertain hypotheticals as the world is vexing enough"
-True Grit


As I said, a security guard has no more legal authority than an average citizen.

They can't assault you like in the OP.
They should have called an officer over as per the law ( one was present at the concert) and the incident would have ended a lot differently.

I've done the same job as the security guards in college. State issued badge and lisc.

Ask any attorney

You are horribly, DANGEROUSLY incorrect.
I worked as a class D lisc guard in college.

Guards have no more authority than a citizen.

This is why they must be lisc by the state, and why they must complete a class.
They drill it into your head that you are not a cop and can be charged with a crime of you assault an individual.

A guard is a professional paid witness and crime deterrent, not a cop.

Know your laws.

Or you can call the University of Cincinnati police who pull people over for expired tags and end up shooting them. Off campus too.

 

[Thespis]

if in the end they could prove they had just cause to believe so and were in fear of their lives or lives of others they could not be held criminally responsible

I wouldn't test this theory if I were you. Unless you're in Texas or a handful of other states.

 

[skoony]

Did you read it?
That's the whole point.
They were wrong. There was no laser pointer.
No rule or law was broken.

yes i read it.
security thought it was a laser pointer.
it does not mater that it was not.
there is no grounds for assault.
being mistaken is not a criminal offence.
regards
mike

 

[edyle]

Wonder what would happen if security saw someone playing around with a coolfire2 at a concert?

 

[Thespis]

i agree whole heartily.
we do not know because no one has stated the policy
concerning laser pointers.(and flash photography)
generally its stated that the use of restricted devices is grounds
for removal from the venue.
now its a mater of determining how one is to be removed.
regards
mike

No, it's a matter of determining that one actually has a restricted device. He didn't and got choked. Why are you defending this?

 

[skoony]

Because they were wrong about what the man had when they choked him.

who said they choked him?
looks like the put him in a head lock.
ther bruising is in the wrong place to be choking.

We're talking about a guy with an ecig at a concert. Hyperbole much?

me,hyperbole?
your kidding right?
i am not the one inferring this is criminal assault.
regards
mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

yes i read it.
security thought it was a laser pointer.
it does not mater that it was not.
there is no grounds for assault.
being mistaken is not a criminal offence.
regards
mike

Yes, in the USA, it absolutely is a criminal offense when you assault a citizen.

You can't go around assaulting people because you "mistake" them for criminals.

 

[skoony]

No, it's a matter of determining that one actually has a restricted device. He didn't and got choked. Why are you defending this?

again where are you getting the choking part?
regards
mike

 

[bluecat]

They must have different laws where you live. A police officer with a badge and gun has no right to use excessive force beyond what’s necessary to arrest a suspect and keep police and bystanders safe.

Correct but they do have the right to use force as they perceive as needed. Could be the dude got belligerent with them. More facts need to come out. Of course we only get the guard tackles a dude. Not the part were the dude spits in his face and doesn't leave while saying you can't make me leave. Usually the dude is wrong and the guard makes them leave hence the tackle.

 

[Thespis]

yes i read it.
security thought it was a laser pointer.
it does not mater that it was not.
there is no grounds for assault.
being mistaken is not a criminal offence.
regards
mike

Tort Liability
In addition to wrongful death lawsuits, a citizens arrest has the potential to expose individuals to other kinds of tort liability if the arrest was not justified. If a person does not comply with the laws requirements when making the arrest, the arrestee could allege a number of offenses in a personal injury lawsuit, including the aforementioned wrongful death, false imprisonment and assault and battery.

- See more at: Citizen's Arrest - FindLaw

 

[skoony]

Yes, in the USA, it absolutely is a criminal offense when you assault a citizen.

You can't go around assaulting people because you "mistake" them for criminals.

what assault?
of course assault is criminal.
what makes you think this was an assault?
you most certainly can use force if you believe
a crime is about to be committed.
regards
mike

 

[Thespis]

again where are you getting the choking part?
regards
mike

My mistake. I read this and assumed choking. "He says the guards jumped on top of him from behind, one of them grabbing him by the neck."

 

[bluecat]

Did you read it?
That's the whole point.
They were wrong. There was no laser pointer.
No rule or law was broken.

The guards did not follow the law or proper procedure, and in fact violated the law.

It's obvious they weren't cops. Cops know better and would have asked to see the device before grabbing the citizen.

Professionalism and proper procedure could have avoided the entire scene.
Unfortunately there was none of either.


Frivolous?
What if that was you that got choked out for vaping?
Your spouse? Your child?
Assaulted for not breaking the law?

First of all I would not have mouthed off to the guard. If I was in that situation o would have explained what was going on. I seriously doubt a guard acme charging from 500 feet away and tackled the dude then started choking him without provacation.

If my wife and kids were assulted, I would be in jail.

30 years ago it happened in a typical bar fight. After it was broken up I saw a friend of mine being held by two guys. I rushed them. I got a choked hold by one of the bouncers and picked up and carried by a choke hold which I blacked out for a few seconds. I didn't press charges. It was 7 on 2.

It wasn't my fault.

 

[Thespis]

what assault?
of course assault is criminal.
what makes you think this was an assault?
you most certainly can use force if you believe
a crime is about to be committed.
regards
mike

And you can most certainly be charged with assault if you're wrong.

 

[edyle]

My guess is it was at night.

Chances are every now and then the security officers spotted a blue light in the crowd, and started homing it on the light believing it to be a lazer pointer.

At some point one of them zeroed in on the source

in the dark

in the crowd

lots of movement

lots of noise

 

[skoony]

Tort Liability
In addition to wrongful death lawsuits, a citizens arrest has the potential to expose individuals to other kinds of tort liability if the arrest was not justified. If a person does not comply with the laws requirements when making the arrest, the arrestee could allege a number of offenses in a personal injury lawsuit, including the aforementioned wrongful death, false imprisonment and assault and battery.

- See more at: Citizen's Arrest - FindLaw

well no kidding.
did you read the part where i said he could sue the
guards.
that is obvious.
so lets get back to the subject.
how and why are the security guards assaulting
the individual in the OP.
regards
mike