Maoi's wta's and nsfw's

[alopezg1]

Hello

I am just writing this as a means of thinking out loud and hopefully it may be of some help to someone. Over the last year i have been trying pretty much constantly to stop smoking. I have folllowed a pattern of relapse which is failry uiform, getting to around two months, sometime more, sometimes less, then relapsing. I norally smoke a cigarette - the last time was half- then get myself back on the wagon again. This wouldn't be so bad but each time i relapse i have to start all over again and it is a very challenging two months . I relapse not because I want to smoke a cigarette but because i feel overwhelmed by the side effects of withdrawal. I have been using both an e-cigarette and snus during these times to curb the symptoms and have found them to be immensley helpful , but have found that i cannot use one exclusively over the other as each provide me with different tools to fight the symptoms of withdrawal. Now , i have been doing some research to see why it is I may be experiencing these symtptoms, which apparently are not typical for a lot of people . Apparently cigarette smoke has been shown to conatain a very potent MAOI . An MAOI has a lot to do with dopamne release in the brain, which in turn has a great deal to do with anxiety and depression. I believe now that over the years i have been self medicating with the naturally occuring anti- depressant qualities of tobacco , and that is infact what i am withdrawing from . It makes a lot of sense to me and i feel a lot better at least now knowing what is happening to me. I very rarel actually have cigarette cravings as such , maybe in the first couple of weeks i will have the odd one but the problem for me has always been a list f other much more disturbing symptoms which include: panic attacks, chronic depression, chronic emotional pain, feelings of paralysis- not literal but a sense of being entirely disconnected from my body and unable to focus on anything- decline in memory function and all round cognitive function, suicidal thoughts and ideation and just a general sinking feeling . Now , in the last few days i have been using snus pretty much exclusively and i have found that i feel a great deal clamer o the whole and that mys symptoms have lessened . This prompts me to thinking that the tobacco plant itself may contain the MAOI in its natural form prior to combustion. I think from here on out i will be sticking with snus . The problme with vaping for me , was that some times it worked - and it certainly helped with the behavioural aspect- but not for long , and i would get to the point where i was vaping constantly to try and clam myslef down, thinking it was nicotine withdrawal , when in fact nicotine i believe, has little do to with it ; it was the MAOI that i was in need of. In fact due to the stimulant properties of nicotine, i was actually feeling a lot worse constantly vaping , as i was trying to get a grip of myslef and calm down but ingesting large amounts of stimulants. Anyway , i am going to my doctor tomorrow as i now see that it is not a question just ' toughing it out' and waiting for the symptoms to go away. If anything they seem to get worse over time . Maybe one day they would correct themselves , that may take years however , and to go through a week of intense symptoms of the like i have described is enough to put most people i think in a position where they probably in danger of harming themselves , or someone else. So, i am going to continue with the snus, and i am going to talk with my doctor and maybe see if can go on bupropion as i am aware of it's capacity to act on the are of the brain that is receptive to tobacco. Alternatively there are MAOI anti depressants , which are quite old fashioned nowadays but can still be prescribed . I am not overly keen on resorting to psychotropic drugs as a solution but between the choice of going back to smoking , and staying like this indefinitley , i think it is the lesser of two ( or three?) evils. As i said i am not really asking for advice here , i jus have found it helpful writing this and if it may help anyone else who is experiencing similar symptoms then that can't be bad a thing either

 

[Katmar]

There have been a few threads regarding the MAOIs in cigarettes. You would really have to search for them, but they are here. It seems you are certainly not alone in this. Many folks have had the same problems and found that snus really helped. Now there are some e liquids containing WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids) which are said to contain some of these MAOIs, but I haven't seen if they are as safe as snus.
Good luck on your journey. I hope you don't have to go on psychotropic drugs, but, if you do, it will probably be because you really need them.
Keep us posted and thanks for sharing your story.

 

[alopezg1]

There have been a few threads regarding the MAOIs in cigarettes. You would really have to search for them, but they are here. It seems you are certainly not alone in this. Many folks have had the same problems and found that snus really helped. Now there are some e liquids containing WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids) which are said to contain some of these MAOIs, but I haven't seen if they are as safe as snus.
Good luck on your journey. I hope you don't have to go on psychotropic drugs, but, if you do, it will probably be because you really need them.
Keep us posted and thanks for sharing your story.

Thanks katmar

I have been using the WTA liquid I got it from a good source that I read about on here- I am not sure if I can mention suppliers names?- I am sure it works for some people but I didn't notice any difference between it and normal liquid except that it was harsher on my throat. I have been using it today at points because I like the flavor . I have also been using snus, but I am still getting very powerful anxiety attacks and generally unpleasant thoughts . Snus sometimes seems to help then sometimes not , I don't really know how this works.

 

[Katmar]

Thanks katmar

I have been using the WTA liquid I got it from a good source that I read about on here- I am not sure if I can mention suppliers names?- I am sure it works for some people but I didn't notice any difference between it and normal liquid except that it was harsher on my throat. I have been using it today at points because I like the flavor . I have also been using snus, but I am still getting very powerful anxiety attacks and generally unpleasant thoughts . Snus sometimes seems to help then sometimes not , I don't really know how this works.

I, too, just got some WTA and don't see much difference, either. Have not tried snus, but probably will, although the problem for me, and this is embarrassing, is the I have upper dentures and you are supposed to put it under your upper lip.

How often do you use the snus? I know a lot of people had them in their mouths constantly, except for when they slept.

 

[freeatlast!]

Alopezg1, I sympathize with your efforts and frustrations!! As someone who tends to get depressed, and who married into a family with anxiety issues, I can only recommend to you to see a dr., explain everything as you explained to us here, and do not be afraid of anti-anxiety or anti-depressant meds!! Understand that they usually take a couple weeks or so to start helping; stay in touch with your dr. and if he/she doesn't seem to be a good "fit" for you, try another dr.! The right med in the right dose for you can make a huge difference in your quality of life! Best of luck - and congrats on your decision to stop smoking!

 

[alopezg1]

I, too, just got some WTA and don't see much difference, either. Have not tried snus, but probably will, although the problem for me, and this is embarrassing, is the I have upper dentures and you are supposed to put it under your upper lip.

How often do you use the snus? I know a lot of people had them in their mouths constantly, except for when they slept.

Katmar

You don't have to put in your top lip. I sometimes put it in my bottom lip and don't see what the difference is really . I think it is because it makes you salivate less if you place it under your top lip , but I didn't really notice a difference. You can use snus as much or as little as you like but you will still be absorbing the nicotine for up to an hour after first putting it in , that's how long I keep it in normally . I normally leave it about an hour before putting in another , but everyone is different. I don't understand why people sleep with it in other than just forgetting about it and falling asleep , the taste and the nicotine dissipate with most snus after an hour or so . You should probably just see how you get on at first and use it instead of having a vape now and then if you feel like it. It takes a few minutes for you to notice the nicotine . I do really enjoy Snus and certainly feels a lot more satisfying than vaping , but I find it I just use snus for a while I start feeling the need to vape for the behavioral aspect, and sometimes it's just less hassle and I don't feel I need a large dose of nicotine. It is also a taste you will probably take some getting used to , it's something you have to acclimatize to and learn to appreciate . Hope this helps

 

[Katmar]

Katmar

You don't have to put in your top lip. I sometimes put it in my bottom lip and don't see what the difference is really . I think it is because it makes you salivate less if you place it under your top lip , but I didn't really notice a difference. You can use snus as much or as little as you like but you will still be absorbing the nicotine for up to an hour after first putting it in , that's how long I keep it in normally . I normally leave it about an hour before putting in another , but everyone is different. I don't understand why people sleep with it in other than just forgetting about it and falling asleep , the taste and the nicotine dissipate with most snus after an hour or so . You should probably just see how you get on at first and use it instead of having a vape now and then if you feel like it. It takes a few minutes for you to notice the nicotine . I do really enjoy Snus and certainly feels a lot more satisfying than vaping , but I find it I just use snus for a while I start feeling the need to vape for the behavioral aspect, and sometimes it's just less hassle and I don't feel I need a large dose of nicotine. It is also a taste you will probably take some getting used to , it's something you have to acclimatize to and learn to appreciate . Hope this helps

It sure did help, Alopez, thank you for all the tips. I'll let you know how I do. I will only use Swedish snus and I think they are now sold in the states, yes?

 

[alisa1970]

A little late to the party, but I do the same thing...I vape most of the time, but I get much more out of snus. I can go several days without it, and I'm trying to wean myself off of it but when the brain fog hits and I can't concentrate and feel myself sliding into a weird mental state, it snaps me right back out of it. I do think there is another component to the dopamine thing, and that is a genetic defect that recently, it was discovered I had. It's quite common, and in part has something to do with how seratonin and dopamine are metabolized in the brain. Right now it's just a theory of mine, and now that I'm on a protocol to correct it, I will know if that has played a part in my difficulties with completely getting away from tobacco.

I use General Snus (sold in the states), and it's very inexpensive. Each can has a $1.50 off coupon in it, so it ends up being about $2.50 for 24 packs. I usually use one or two packs a day for a few days, then I'm good without for several more. One can will last me a month usually.

It's weird because as a girl I never would have considered "dipping", but the fact that you don't spit, and that it has literally saved my sanity, means that I'm not going to get hung up on image. I started off using WTA liquid and it was a game changer for me, but after almost 9 months without a cig it doesn't seem to do anything anymore.

 

[AndriaD]

I completely agree about the MAOIs; at 3 wks, I hated the world and everything in it. Now, at 3 mos, I don't know what my problem is, but I can't seem to get along with anyone. I don't feel like smoking at all, and I'm not going to, but I seem to be flipping from emotion to emotion at the speed of light, far worse than I ever did with PMS. I wish my stupid body would get a clue already that there aren't going to be anymore cigarettes, it will just have to make do with vaping.

Andria

 

[Katmar]

I completely agree about the MAOIs; at 3 wks, I hated the world and everything in it. Now, at 3 mos, I don't know what my problem is, but I can't seem to get along with anyone. I don't feel like smoking at all, and I'm not going to, but I seem to be flipping from emotion to emotion at the speed of light, far worse than I ever did with PMS. I wish my stupid body would get a clue already that there aren't going to be anymore cigarettes, it will just have to make do with vaping.

Andria

You should consider either WTA liquids or snus. Lots of people had positive results.

 

[AndriaD]

You should consider either WTA liquids or snus. Lots of people had positive results.

I seriously considered it at 3 wks when I was feeling so negative, but by the time I had enough money to get some (it's a bit more costly than regular ejuice -- would not even consider the snus, that's icky!), the feelings had passed. I'm really hoping that will prove to be the case this time, too. I'm doing so well, otherwise, with the ease of quitting, lack of typical withdrawal symptoms; I just hate to re-open a can of worms that I've already got *almost* completely closed. Maybe I should just practice the "silence is golden" technique for a while; it's hard to not-get-along if you're not talking. For me, *not* talking is a real challenge, but if it will keep me from bickering with my husband, definitely worth it -- he can be a real beeyotch and I *know* I'm being one lately!

Andria

 

[Katmar]

I seriously considered it at 3 wks when I was feeling so negative, but by the time I had enough money to get some (it's a bit more costly than regular ejuice -- would not even consider the snus, that's icky!), the feelings had passed. I'm really hoping that will prove to be the case this time, too. I'm doing so well, otherwise, with the ease of quitting, lack of typical withdrawal symptoms; I just hate to re-open a can of worms that I've already got *almost* completely closed. Maybe I should just practice the "silence is golden" technique for a while; it's hard to not-get-along if you're not talking. For me, *not* talking is a real challenge, but if it will keep me from bickering with my husband, definitely worth it -- he can be a real beeyotch and I *know* I'm being one lately!

Andria

Lots of women use snus. Not so icky once you get used to it. And most people wouldn't even notice you had one in your mouth. They are very small. But, if you thing you can wait it out, go for it. I hope you can!!!!

 

[AndriaD]

Lots of women use snus. Not so icky once you get used to it. And most people wouldn't even notice you had one in your mouth. They are very small. But, if you thing you can wait it out, go for it. I hope you can!!!!

It's not so much the "image" thing, as I just don't think I'd care for the taste at all. I had a very hard time finding a tobacco-flavored ejuice that I really liked, which is similar to the Virginia Slims I smoked, because it seems that I don't really like the taste of almost all tobaccos *other* than this mild smooth Virginia. Just about all the others strike me as either "pipe tobacco" or "cigar," and I really don't like either -- I didn't even like other cigarettes, just the VA Slims.

And I do think the worst of it is about over; as I said, I have no desire for a cigarette, just kinda feeling kinda... prickly, I guess is the best way to describe it, and the mood swings. I would chalk that up more to my native emotional dysfunctions, than to anything particularly due to withdrawal. Just a matter of re-establishing my equilibrium without the MAOIs, a situation I had to deal with when I went off Effexor years ago. The interim is not terribly comfortable, but worth it, since now I'm not taking any antidepressants, but more or less rocking along, no matter what "slings and arrows" fly my way. I guess it's actually kinda comforting to know there is a chemical reason for feeling this way, and not just that I'm turning into a disgruntled, disagreeable old woman.

Andria

 

[Katmar]

I have been trying to come off of remeron.....HORRID!! Tried 2 different times on a very slow wean, and got so sick, I had to go back on. My only choice now seems to be a liquid titer, and that is a royal pain. There are no compounding pharmacies near me to help, so I have to figure it out on my own. Worse antidepressant EVER to get off of, and I had a heck of a time coming off of Effexor, like you, but managed to do it.

I need to come off of it because it keeps lowering my white cell count, then I have to take all this stuff to bring it back up, which is not fun.

Hope your "pricklies" leave you soon

 

[alisa1970]

I just about died when I first tried the Snus...it burns after a little bit, and I thought my mouth was bleeding (it has that coppery taste a little) and totally freaked out. The taste was nasty. I had it in my upper lip. I tried it again a couple days later in my lower cheek towards the back, and it was not as bad, and I knew when the burning sensation started that it was just the saliva and salt from the snus mixing together so I got through it. Now it's no big deal, and I'll leave one in for anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour. I even do it at work (I have an office job, no direct contact with customers) and no one has commented. But you do get used to the flavor. I only use Wintergreen; I tried another flavor and it was gross.

 

[AndriaD]

I have been trying to come off of remeron.....HORRID!! Tried 2 different times on a very slow wean, and got so sick, I had to go back on. My only choice now seems to be a liquid titer, and that is a royal pain. There are no compounding pharmacies near me to help, so I have to figure it out on my own. Worse antidepressant EVER to get off of, and I had a heck of a time coming off of Effexor, like you, but managed to do it.

I need to come off of it because it keeps lowering my white cell count, then I have to take all this stuff to bring it back up, which is not fun.

Hope your "pricklies" leave you soon

Don't think I've heard of remeron, what is that?

We spent money all day today, Harbor Freight, Home Depot, then Ingles and Walmart for groceries. Retail therapy is always fun, especially with my husband; I'm more of a miser usually, but that man loves to spend money like nobody's business. I got one of those magnifying-visor things, which should make wrapping coils a lot easier, being able to actually see the wraps clearly *while* wrapping, should help me get the initial wraps closer together. Also got a 3" vise, so I'll have a way to hold my mod in position so I can use both hands for working. YAY!!! My husband got some other stuff he's been pining for, some sawhorses, c-clamps, and we also got a 100' hose for the yard, and a new hose-spigot-thingie, the old one wore out when the hose did, in that awful winter we had.

Tomorrow we'll be spending about $350ish on the truck, some PM they told us it needed the last time we had the oil changed, and had been just waiting for this dang refund to hurry up so we could get it done and keep our 4-wheeled baby purring. We always get all the PM and any work done at the same dealership where we bought it, since we intend to also trade it there, and they'll know exactly how well it's been taken care of, so we should get a nice trade-in value on it, in 2016.

Andria

 

[Katmar]

Don't think I've heard of remeron, what is that?
Andria

It's an atypical antidepressant. A tetracyclic.

 

[alopezg1]

Effexor eh? We call that venlaflaxine over here in the UK. I was on that for a while. It's very very potent and coming off it was probably the worst experience of my life. Having said that I just decided to stop one day without seeking doctors advice and just stopped dead from quite a high dose . Very bad idea . EVerytime I moved my eyes I got these strange electrical currents moving through my body and a loud whooshing noise and I had abasolutley no energy for about 2 months. And it was also like being trapped in a surreal nightmare. I had to go on another antidepressant to get back to normal , which I am still on now . I am not convinced it does much other than stop me going into withdrawal .... a bit like cigarettes really

 

[AndriaD]

Effexor eh? We call that venlaflaxine over here in the UK. I was on that for a while. It's very very potent and coming off it was probably the worst experience of my life. Having said that I just decided to stop one day without seeking doctors advice and just stopped dead from quite a high dose . Very bad idea . EVerytime I moved my eyes I got these strange electrical currents moving through my body and a loud whooshing noise and I had abasolutley no energy for about 2 months. And it was also like being trapped in a surreal nightmare. I had to go on another antidepressant to get back to normal , which I am still on now . I am not convinced it does much other than stop me going into withdrawal .... a bit like cigarettes really

You're absolutely right, that's why unless I ever got as suicidally depressed as I was 10 yrs ago, I'll never take any of that medicine again. That withdrawal makes cigarette withdrawal look like a day at the beach -- I had the same "electric current" sensations, like someone just shoved a live wire into me, even though I took a full year to withdraw from it. I had been on a very high dosage myself, but then we lost our insurance, so we bought a big bottle of gelatin in capsules, emptied out all the gelatin, and set about dividing up the Effexor capsules, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and finally 1/32 of a dose at the end -- and I still got to enjoy that full-body *bzzzt* feeling, skin-crawling, jumping spasming muscles, dizzy spells, blurry vision, poor sleep, and sense of unreality, during the entire year of withdrawing.

I would have to be to the point of holding a razor to my wrist before I'd be willing to EVER take that stuff again.

Andria

 

[Katmar]

You're absolutely right, that's why unless I ever got as suicidally depressed as I was 10 yrs ago, I'll never take any of that medicine again. That withdrawal makes cigarette withdrawal look like a day at the beach -- I had the same "electric current" sensations, like someone just shoved a live wire into me, even though I took a full year to withdraw from it. I had been on a very high dosage myself, but then we lost our insurance, so we bought a big bottle of gelatin in capsules, emptied out all the gelatin, and set about dividing up the Effexor capsules, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and finally 1/32 of a dose at the end -- and I still got to enjoy that full-body *bzzzt* feeling, skin-crawling, jumping spasming muscles, dizzy spells, blurry vision, poor sleep, and sense of unreality, during the entire year of withdrawing.

I would have to be to the point of holding a razor to my wrist before I'd be willing to EVER take that stuff again.

Andria

Same problem here. Those electric sensations were driving me crazy. Doctor didn't believe me. Thought I was having mini seizures and ordered an eeg, which was normal. But, I'll tell you, it was still easier than coming off of this Remeron. I became deathly ill both times I tried to get off. Now, I am scared, but determined to find a way. These pharma companies tend to deny it it their product causing these withdrawals, and attempt to tell you it's your symptoms recurring. Duh!