MaxxFusion Burn tests coil temp test..silicone melt test..

[Frick]

This is not a biased look at the maxx fusion, as a matter of fact im vaping away right now. This thing is just great, all I tried to do here is point out some facts about the device we are using. Knowledge is a good thing, the more educated people are, the better educated decisions you will make. Thats all it is intended to be.

Absolutely agreed.

You do offer your opinion that the design is defective without having told us anything about burnt/melted silicone or in fact any burnt or melted parts, though. I was simply stating that I have disassembled cartos myself, and not yet found any issue with the design that causes the silicone (or anything else) to melt or burn.

 

[DeeLeeKay]

How often, or how many of these cartos would have the atty touching the silicone?

 

[cryx]

The coil is about 1/32"-1/16" from the battery tip's silicone sleeve. The wick is in firm contact with the ring of silicone adhesive, so the coil is extremely close if not actually touching the adhesive. I think it was my very first post in this subforum where I mentioned the coils tend to be off to one side.

I realized the center tube sure looks like an electronics insulating sleeve, which would mean it's made of fiberglass (methol cigs, stop laughing at me!). The tube is coated or impregnated with something. You can tell because it's smooth and springy -- until you take a lighter to it. Wash the black off, which might or might not be just lighter soot. Roll it between your fingers. It's rougher now and light colored fine particles fall out. Fold one of the sides down, it's not likely to spring back. That coating is likely to be silicone.

 

[MahBohMan]

Today I am going to carefully dissasemble 10 used maxxfusion cartos I have laying around to check the consistency. I did just check something I missed in the original test though...the inner air tube, which is wrapped in a thin layer of "cloth" before the filler gets wrapped around it....that cloth type material does NOT burn when in direct contact with a dry burn coil for 8 second repeated burns. Thats good, now we have 2 non burning and non melting barriers between the coil and the polyfill. This is good.

 

[MahBohMan]

The whole reason I was jumping all over the pressed in place coil design is this....and this may be the reason a few of my plugs were melted a small amount where the coil leads make contact. When electricity flows through good solid contacts...the heat level at the contact point is kept under control pretty easily. When electricity tries to flow through a loose or not secure contact, you get an arc, some people would call it a "spark". That arc attempts to bridge the gap and in doing so, however small it may be at that exact point it creates and incredible amount of heat. This is how steel is welded together. With an arc. Silicone will melt if subjected to an electrical arc due to a loose connection. An arc from a loose connection is extremely hot. I wish I could see how the coil is put into place at the factory that would be a cool video, the actual assembly.

I am not implying that the connection inside the maxxfusion is loose at all, I haven't had one carto fail yet. Just some more information to put out there. People's houses burn down from electricians that come in, replace outlets and "backstab" the plugs with the feeder wires. "Backstab" means they will take the wire, strip it and push it into this small connector which just holds it in place. There's no real mechanical tight connection there, that results in spark, or arcs, which burn whatever is around the inside of the plug, dust can ignite.

I have taken a motor just for fun, the type which circulates water for a heating system and tested the arc to see how much damage it will do. I took the ground wire and connected it nice nice, the neutral conductor and connected it, then left the positive wire off. I crimped on a aluminum 10 guage ring terminal onto the wire, and bounced it off the positive post. Now the current and voltage wants to flow when the connection is close enough, but because it was not tight, it throws a wicked arc, which vaporized the aluminum ring terminal....immediately. The melting point of aluminum is 1220.666 °F, and the arc when bouncing off the post does not melt the aluminum, it annihilates it.

What would a loose connection do to a piece of silicone. Come up with a more secure connection for the coil.

 

[cryx]

Another way for an arc to occur is if the battery tip wire is too close to the metal shell. It stands to reason that pushing the pin in could make the wire bow a little closer to the shell. After one of my many reassemblies to reinspect it's state, I was very depressed that the carto went hot and acidic. It measured 2.5 ohms like before. I eventually found that it wasn't as bad if threaded so lightly it was loose. As soon as firm contact occurred it went horribily bad. When I pressed down on the pin, the resistance raidly dropped to almost 1ohm.

 

[cryx]

Does anyone know how the battery end of the shell is attached? Is it glued (no, I'm not worried about something that far from the coil), threaded, or what? I'm going to experiment with other materials and don't want to hacksaw one of my only two cartos...

 

[Quick1]

The only thing burnt or melted are two tiny spots where the leads come through the silicone plug.

I was simply stating that I have disassembled cartos myself, and not yet found any issue with the design that causes the silicone (or anything else) to melt or burn.

I'm confused.

 

[Frick]

I'm confused.

Disassemble one and you won't be. Those two tiny spots aren't the "oh my God I vaped huge amounts of silicone!" posts that started this.

I meant that the atty coil isn't sitting on the silicone melting or burning it as you vape.

 

[Quick1]

Disassemble one and you won't be. Those two tiny spots aren't the "oh my God I vaped huge amounts of silicone!" posts that started this.

"it does" or "it doesn't" is different from "how much". It appears that it does. So the question would be if that amount is significant right?

 

[Frick]

"it does" or "it doesn't" is different from "how much". It appears that it does. So the question would be if that amount is significant right?

Agreed. I should have said "besides those two tiny spots", but I had already mentioned that, as you quoted. The atty coil and wick aren't resting on the silicone to burn it. It's resting in the un-burnable (probably glass-fiber) 'chimney'. The interesting thing is: I found those two marks on a brand new carto. It makes me wonder if each carto is given a burn at the factory(?) Or did I find one that was QC-tested?

 

[cryx]

Those two tiny spots aren't the "oh my God I vaped huge amounts of silicone!" posts that started this.

I didn't bother to reply the first time you (accidentally?) stated that falsehood. I was very alarmed when I very clearly stated that I thought it was plastic.

I meant that the atty coil isn't sitting on the silicone melting or burning it as you vape.

The coil is extremely close to the silicon sleeve & adhesive as in 1/16" - 1/32". Under a 30X loupe, the melting of the adhesive was evident. I've demonstrated that removing the ring of silicone adhesive (even pristine appearing adhesive) eliminates the foul taste, so much so that all week I was vaping on a PT at 2X the power of a bloog battery. I'm not touching the PT after seeing these temps because nothing good comes out of silicone at high heat.

The temps are hot enough to outgas formaldehyde and whatever else is in the adhesive (it's not clear, there is something else in there). Cigs release formaldehyde, but that doesn't make it any better. My wife and I hoped to find a carcinogen-free alternative that we could use to whittle down on nicotine, yet continue to enjoy for years to come. The possibility/reality of vaping toxic fumes kind of puts a damper on that long-term dream.

 

[redempti0N]

I didn't bother to reply the first time you (accidentally?) stated that falsehood. I was very alarmed when I very clearly stated that I thought it was plastic.



The coil is extremely close to the silicon sleeve & adhesive as in 1/16" - 1/32". Under a 30X loupe, the melting of the adhesive was evident. I've demonstrated that removing the ring of silicone adhesive (even pristine appearing adhesive) eliminates the foul taste, so much so that all week I was vaping on a PT at 2X the power of a bloog battery. I'm not touching the PT after seeing these temps because nothing good comes out of silicone at high heat.

The temps are hot enough to outgas formaldehyde and whatever else is in the adhesive (it's not clear, there is something else in there). Cigs release formaldehyde, but that doesn't make it any better. My wife and I hoped to find a carcinogen-free alternative that we could use to whittle down on nicotine, yet continue to enjoy for years to come. The possibility/reality of vaping toxic fumes kind of puts a damper on that long-term dream.

then quit vaping

 

[Rift]

I very highly doubt that the inner casing is fiberglass coated in silicone.

I took another carto apart today and will have some pictures to share later in the other thread. This one had some stuff of interest I will share later.

People seriously need to stop slinging mud at each other, it doesn't do anyone any good. The way I understand it Leafords main goal was QC and a consistent product. I think these threads bring to light that some stuff can be improved on, as well as question the possibility of some of the materials used inside the cartomizer. There's no need for us to kill each other over it tho.

 

[pmos69]

Agreed. I should have said "besides those two tiny spots", but I had already mentioned that, as you quoted. The atty coil and wick aren't resting on the silicone to burn it. It's resting in the un-burnable (probably glass-fiber) 'chimney'. The interesting thing is: I found those two marks on a brand new carto. It makes me wonder if each carto is given a burn at the factory(?) Or did I find one that was QC-tested?

Viewing Leaford's MaxxFusion launch video, I would say they are tested.

 

[Frick]

I didn't bother to reply the first time you (accidentally?) stated that falsehood. I was very alarmed when I very clearly stated that I thought it was plastic.

I suppose the menthol hid the fact that I VAPORIZED MOST OF THE PLASTIC RING INTO MY LUNGS!!! I was already worried about fumes from scorched polyfill, so vaping a whole chunk of plastic just flips me out. The carcinogens in plastic build up in your body.

Yes, you originally called it 'plastic', but in this very thread you said "The wick is in firm contact with the ring of silicone adhesive."

The coil is extremely close to the silicon sleeve & adhesive as in 1/16" - 1/32". Under a 30X loupe, the melting of the adhesive was evident. I've demonstrated that removing the ring of silicone adhesive (even pristine appearing adhesive) eliminates the foul taste

Have you had the 'foul taste' on a Bloog battery at 3.6V? Or on a V4L battery at 4.2V (freshly-charged) or 3.7V? Or only on a PT? I'm honestly curious, as someone who has never experienced this 'foul taste' in any BMF carto.

People seriously need to stop slinging mud at each other, it doesn't do anyone any good. The way I understand it Leafords main goal was QC and a consistent product. I think these threads bring to light that some stuff can be improved on, as well as question the possibility of some of the materials used inside the cartomizer. There's no need for us to kill each other over it tho.

Agreed; I'm done posting in these threads until more information from Leaford is available.

Viewing Leaford's MaxxFusion launch video, I would say they are tested.

Yes, it appears they are. So, that tiny amount of silicone 'singeing' would occur during that test, explaining why I found it in a brand-new carto. Interesting.

 

[VAPlN']

I don't see how anyone can interpret this very interesting thread as anything but great for Bloog. We have what seems like several very intelligent and inquisitive people pondering ways to make a relatively new product even better than it already is. That seems like free R&D help to me. And better yet, it comes directly from a user of their product.

Let's not for a second consider any of their comments to be FACTS. Instead, let's view it as interesting, hands-on information and observations of what makes this device tick and continue to ask questions and offer our own observations. I and many that I've read posts from hope that this carto is part of taking a step closer to an even better PV experience. But, I hope nobody is naive enough to think that vaping is ever going to be done evolving. Finding the flaws is the first, and most important, step in continual improvement. Have you ever noticed the -A, -B, -C or Version *.1, *.2, *.3 designations on almost every product out there? That's because feedback was received, or new technology became available, that made it an even better version than the last. Let's keep this thread heading in that direction, instead of berating the posters' observations and questioning of the status quo.

I love it that there are people that are willing and able to spend the time to dissect and measure such things for those of us that don't and I bet that Leaford is grateful for any feedback and information that could lead him to an even better product. I have never heard him get defensive or go into denial in any of his many posts. He has a lot to do and I'm sure a lot on his mind. I absolutely don't doubt that he will continue to try to improve the product. Keep giving him you thoughts and we will end up with an even better PV moving forward.

 

[cryx]

I very highly doubt that the inner casing is fiberglass coated in silicone.

Just for clarification, do you doubt it's fiberglass, or that it's coated/impregnated? My basis for it being impregnated is the tube changes consistency after being burned and looses flexibility. Insulating sleeves are usually coated/impregnated with silicon, pvc, or vermiculite.

If I'm not buried under a mountain of work, I'm going to see if I can pick up some sleeves this week to compare, burn, etc. I'll do it when I continue my hunt for the appropriately sized inert materials that should make the coil area completely safe...

 

[Rift]

I'm doubting its fiberglass. I however have not spend enough time with the center casing to come to a 100% conclusion on that as it was not an area of concern atm. I'm about to update the other thread and will check out the center casing more in a bit.

 

[Sense Field]

Have you had the 'foul taste' on a Bloog battery at 3.6V? Or on a V4L battery at 4.2V (freshly-charged) or 3.7V? Or only on a PT? I'm honestly curious, as someone who has never experienced this 'foul taste' in any BMF carto.

I've had the foul taste on at least half of of the blanks I've gotten. All used on BMF batteries.