MBV pulls cinnamon juices

[Spike64]

Sorry, Spike, I'm afraid I stole your thunder over here. I was pretty excited to get the information disseminated, I probably should have PMed you first.

LOL........sheet happens...

 

[Fortinbraz]

Personally, I'm not persuaded by this one study, and I will continue to vape cinnamon (including the Cinnamon Bun and Cinnamon Red Hots that I received from MBV earlier in the week), but where are you getting that this wasn't "vetted by peers"? Toxicology in Vitro is a peer-reviewed journal, and the article would have gone through the peer-review process before it was accepted for publication. To be clear, the fact that it is "in press" means that it has been accepted for publication.

Sorry, in my excitement, I misread the "uncorrected proof" as draft. Did not realized it was already accepted for publication. My bad.

 

[generic mutant]

But the results must be reproducible.

Or else it should be published here. As should most of the anti secondhand smoking studies.

You keep banging that drum if it makes you happy.

The world stopped listening though...

 

[Thomasis]

Guys,

The information is out there and has been for many years for all, ok...most of us to read, digest, and decide what is or isn't an acceptable level of risk to vape. The choice is individual, period. We will all choose for ourselves anyway, where is this going? Oh, one more thing, I'm not going to quote but did someone actually mention FOX news in relation to this topic? Yep, they sure did. For Pete's sake take that somewhere else. Fox has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, like it or not. Just let it go man..

 

[Myrany]

I don't care for cinnamon flavored e-liquid so I get to avoid that entire subject, thankfully. I've never bought from MBV but I would guess they use the same flavorings as many other vendors since there is aren't that many to choose from. I also mix my own and have a decent variety of flavorings to choose from, none of them are oil based. Any vendor made e-liquid that has given me the slightest lung or throat irritation went down the toilet, yet the few times this happened the flavors were not the kind one would expect this to get this reaction.

This "study" mentioned vanillin but I'm not savvy enough to understand the implication or why it was even mentioned. I use TFA vanillin in my DIY concoctions, can anyone say if there is cause for concern?

Some vanilla type flavors have diacetyl (spelling) and/or acetoin molecules in them which could lead to popcorn lung a very serious condition.

If you buy your flavors on the The Flavor Apprentice website they very carefully list which flavors have these or have "custard notes" which are the same thing.

Perfumer's Apprentice for more info

 

[Butch]

What other vendors, as he mentioned in the you tube vid, have pulled thier cinnamon flavors?

 

[generic mutant]

Some discussion on vanillin;

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-grail-has-finally-been-found-happyvaper.html

 

[ChaoticRamblings]

As a final followup:

Cinnamon flavours in e-cigarettes: how inappropriate research can misinform the public and the (amateur) professionals

By Dr Farsalinos

Considerable debate has been focused on the issue of cinnamon flavors after a study was published in a toxicology journal declaring that such flavored liquids are cytotoxic. Just one month ago, a study published by our group also found that a cinnamon-flavored liquid was slightly cytotoxic (although still 10 times less toxic that tobacco smoke). I have already sent a letter to the editor of Toxicology in Vitro raising concerns about the latest study they published on cinnamon, however due to significant misinformation spread throughout the social media, I decided to publish this comment.

First of all, it was surprising to see a vendor removing cinnamon flavors from his sales list. According to a well-known e-cigarette activist, “When a juice maker that fills thousands of bottles a day does this - you should listen.” My response to this is: “If the juice maker who fills thousands of bottles a day knew what he was doing, he should have found out about it before any research was published”. What I mean is that makers have no idea about the cytotoxicity of their products. They are doing no research, so how would they know? But it is even worse that they are making such moves (to remove cinnamon flavors) without even reading (or understanding) the research they quote.

Let me explain. The latest study by Talbot’s group discussed about the cytotoxicity of cinnamon flavors in e-cigarette. Interestingly however, IF SOMEONE READS THE PAPER, he will find that the researchers never used any e-cigarette. Moreover, they never produced vapor! They tested the liquids in liquid form, not in vapor. How can you support that the results have implications for e-cigarette users when no e-cigarette was used and no vapor was produced? However, there is a bigger mistake. The authors mentioned that they tested 8 refill liquids with cinnamon flavor. They mention the names of the liquids and the companies they got them from. After personally searching on the internet and communicating with some companies, I found out that 4 of the samples were concentrated flavors, not refills. The authors themselves found cinnamaldehyde (the substance giving the cinnamon flavor in the liquid) at levels that differed between samples by up to 100 times. This confirms what I found: some of their samples were concentrated flavors.

Finally, there is still another problem in their study. They tested the substance itself (cinnamaldehyde) to see how toxic it is. They found it toxic at levels 400 times lower than currently approved for food use. This is a very strange results and it is hard to explain how regulatory authorities have accepted cinnamaldehyde to be available at such high levels (of course, before the approval several tests were performed and it was not found toxic).The authors have to explain why their findings contradict previous research.

As I mentioned above, a letter to the editor has been sent and is currently evaluated for publication. In short, the results of this study have nothing to do with e-cigarette use and are more applicable to cinnamon use in food (since they tested the liquid in liquid form and they used several concentrated samples). Besides that, the reactions from manufacturers show that, unfortunately, they cannot accept their ignorance and instead of asking an expert so that they get informed, they react in a way that produces panic to vapers, does nothing to protect consumers and only results in a game of public relations tactics. This is even more unfortunate than the mistakes in the research protocol. As a final note, let's not forget that research has shown cinnamon to have anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant and maybe anti-cancer properties...

Finally some sanity! I want my Cinnamon Roll back.... pretty please?

 

[Barbara21]

look, the thing is, in this day of age with the internet and mountains of data so readily accessible, one could probably find a study on ANYTHING. and there will be conflicting results. that is the nature of studies. one study says coffee bad, one says coffee good. if you take everything you read as gospel, you will just end up spinning in circles and scared to eat, drink or vape anything! View attachment 275151

I just like your little smiley and wanted to see if I could make it work. View attachment 275151

Success!!

 

[Fulgurant]

I just like your little smiley and wanted to see if I could make it work. View attachment 275151

Success!!

The woman works in emoticons the way master artists might work in oils or clay.

 

[Uncle Ralphie]

I am a vietnam vet,
I smoked camels for 54 years,
I've been married twice
and I'm supposed to be afraid of Cinnamon??? I think not

If anyone has any Cinnamon rolls they are leery of.........please contact me. I will glady relieve you of your concern

 

[Mowgli]

I think MBV's action to pull the cinnamon flavors pending investigation was commendable.
I predict they will get those flavors back up for sale within a few days if they haven't already.

They might have jumped the gun by acting immediately.
That's better than ignoring a warning to make a few bucks.

 

[Coldrake]

As a final followup:

Cinnamon flavours in e-cigarettes: how inappropriate research can misinform the public and the (amateur) professionals

By Dr Farsalinos

As a final, final update, here is Dr. Farsalinos' interview with The Vaping Greek on this issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRhFEGWPIp0&feature=youtu.be

Thank you Fortinbraz, and a huge thank you to Dr. Farsalinos.

 

[Uncle Willie]

PG irritates some. VG irritates some. I guess we should just remove all of it? Hey some people have peanut allergies. BAN PEANUT FOODS!

Any time you smell cinnamon, you are inhaling cinnamon. You realize that right? When you smell poo what do you think you are inhaling? Cherry limeade? No, you are inhaling POO.

Show me the news headlines of chef's all over the world dropping dead from cinnamon-lung and then we'll talk.

It's MBV's business to do as they please .. no need to over react ..

 

[Jerms]

Thank you Fortinbraz, and a huge thank you to Dr. Farsalinos.

I like how he pointed out, if a vendor is choosing to remove cinn vapes based on that specific study, why aren't they removing everything else based on previous results from that same group?

Maybe MBV wasn't aware of the previous results that group published? I'm sure they are being made aware of them now, and should stop selling anything vape related if they choose to place their trust in that group and what they publish. Or better yet, admit they may have jumped the gun by propogating the result of that study before talking to experts who would look at the methodology used and what it means.

If a study is released showing dangers in the flavoring we use, a vendor would be well off to consult an expert on the matter. As layman, they are unable to know the real world implications of a scientific study; whether it's something that should be acted on or not. They can of course run their company how they see fit, but I would hope they would realize their actions can have bad effects on what happens with legislation down the road, even if their intentions are good. A knee-jerk reaction like this is irresponsible, it'll be interesting how things play out.

And as for the study, shame on them for their methodology and blatant lies about the testing done. Hopefully a proper study is done soon on cinnamaldehyde so we can know more about the potential danger which is there, and make decisions based on the facts.

 

[Cr0tchF4i]

Shhhhhh! Please keep the hysteria going.. I ordered 100ml of MBV Cinnamon Roll on Tuesday and if all goes as planned I can sell it at Crack prices!

 

[Katya]

As a final followup:

Cinnamon flavours in e-cigarettes: how inappropriate research can misinform the public and the (amateur) professionals

As a final, final update, here is Dr. Farsalinos' interview with The Vaping Greek on this issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRhFEGWPIp0&feature=youtu.be

Prue Talbot strikes again?

Thank you Fortinbraz and Dr. Farsalinos.

Interesting remarks by Dr. Farsalinos about toxicity of some NETs. Something I always wondered about.

The more you know...

 

[Jerms]

Prue Talbot strikes again?

Thank you Fortinbraz and Dr. Farsalinos.

Interesting remarks by Dr. Farsalinos about toxicity of some NETs. Something I always wondered about.

The more you know...

It depends on the NET, but the one's that have shown toxicity have been at a much higher level than cinnamon in vapes (based on studies that actually use vapor from an ecig as should be done, instead of pure concentrated flavor that isn't vaporized like in this study). Like the Dr. pointed out, any vendor removing cinnamon juices but not tobaccos that may contain natural tobacco flavor aren't acting in a consistent manner.

 

[LDS714]

You keep banging that drum if it makes you happy.

The world stopped listening though...

Good point. Few things are as useless in any sort of confrontational situation as a knowledge of your opponents tactics and history. No way they'd try the same things that worked so well in the past.

 

[Oxtail]

MBV has a reputation of being more cautious and trying to be careful. I've read of people outside the US complaining that MBV refuses to lie on their shipping labels so some shipments get confiscated. Other vendors are more flexible and will label shipments as "essential oils" or "gift" if you ask.

I think in the long run, the reputation of being perhaps overly cautious will help MBV. Better a vendor pulls product early than late.