Mech Mod advantages?

[glassgal]

I'm trying to review what I know about mech mods, and try to fill in the blanks... would appreciate any help.


Ohms Law - where it would apply to mech mods, it's that your battery basically drops off of the amount of voltage delivered over a period of time, so that your vape is going to diminish in quality and quantity over the life of the battery in it. What else about ohms law applies?


battery safety- don't overcharge, tear it out of the unit as soon as it starts feeling hot and get it away from yourself and your unit (but don't throw it out a closed window because that can get expensive).


proper cleaning and care of contacts - swish all contacts down with 99% alcohol once a week or so, and maybe once a month, use a nice spray electronic cleaner on it if you have any juice leaks. If not, squirt with canned air.


That's the only thing to know about mech mods? Nothing else?


How about the advantages of sub-ohm? If sub-ohm vaping requires a power draw as high as 30 watts... isn't that a super short battery life, requiring more frequent battery purchases and more frequent battery changes/charging? What are the vaping advantages for doing it then, besides the need to spend more money, buy/make more juice, and do more busy work (recoiling, recharging batteries, refilling with juice).


Given the above, would it not be more practical to build over .8 ohm coils at all times? What is the taste difference for sub-ohm coils that people would sacrifice battery life for? Thank you!!

 

[Ladiekali]

I wish i had answers for you lol. I am going to follow this post.

I dont sub ohm so i dont understand why its better other than bigger clouds.
I would love to do a dual coil build but cant get mine higher than .8, doesnt seem to matter my wraps. And quite frankly im afraid to go below 1.3.

I hear conflicting info on a lot of stuff. I was told at the shop to vape till my battery dies, here i read to know and monitor your battery's drop off points.

So yeah, im just gonna be lurking this thread to see where it goes !

 

[glassgal]

Hi Ladie... that's exactly it. I can find info on ohms law... the whats and how's are easily answered. It's the WHY's that I can't seem to find a straight answer for.

Something that says: At .5 ohms, my juice tastes better because I get a stronger concentration of flavors and larger clouds of them than at .8 ohms or 1.2 ohms. For this, I am willing to recharge my battery 3x more often, replace them 3x more often, and buy 3x more juice. Also, I am willing to risk blowing my face off (Provari goes down to 1.1 ohms, so we are only talking about below 1.1). Please note that these are ASSUMPTIONS, based on what little I've read about ohms law and batteries. It can be completely wrong. If so, can someone correct me?

I don't see that anywhere...

Don't get me wrong, I will buy a mech mod because it is beautiful, novel, and rare ANYWAY. I'm just asking about functional advantages too.

 

[classwife]

Moved to APV Discussion from The Modding Forum

Modding Forum

Modified your e-cig or built one yourself? This is the place to show it off!

 

[glassgal]

Thanks Classwife!!! I always have trouble figuring out where I'm supposed to put a thread, so end up asking wherever I happen to be when I think of a question (and distracting from the original thread...). I appreciate it.

Can someone answer my questions tho please?

 

[Adam the Aussie]

Sub-ohm is awesome man, you really need to get down to 0.1 or 0.2. Don't worry about your face or teeth, the plastic and dental surgeons these days can nearly work miracles. Your vape will taste like crap, but the clouds man, oh the clouds. Then you get straight on you tube on show everyone how cool you are. If you're not going sub-ohm you're not really vaping.

 

[Ladiekali]

Where are the disclaimers for those statements lol

 

[Alexander Mundy]

The first and most important is Ohm's law which goes hand in hand with battery safety.
You need to make sure you are not overtaxing your battery.
Voltage (E) is like the water pressure in a pipe.
It is potential, as in nothing happens till you turn on the faucet.
Amperage (I) is like the amount of water that is flowing.
Resistance (R) is like how much you have the faucet turned off.
Note that is turned off, not on.
Conductance is how much you have it turned on which is the inverse of resistance.
The more you turn on the faucet (lower resistance to the water flow) the more water flows.
(More Amperage with less resistance)
As a side note the battery internal resistance is like the piping and pump (or height of the water column in the water tower) leading up to your faucet.
Higher internal battery resistance is like a 1/4 inch pipe which will only let so much water through no matter how much you turn on the faucet.
Lower internal battery resistance is like a 1 inch pipe which will give more water with the faucet turned all the way on.
So, Amperage is the amount of water, Voltage is the pressure of the water to the faucet, Resistance is the amount of resistance to the flow of water.

First you need to know what the maximum safe amperage is for your battery.
Confusing the issue is that some battery's are listed with a maximum Amp rating and some with a maximum "C" rating.
If it is listed as Amps "A" then no need to look further, that is it.
If it is a "C" rating then that stands for X amount times the battery's Amp / Hour rating.
However most are rated in mah (milliamp / hour) which is 1/1000th of an amp / hour.
Let's say the battery is rated for a maximum continuous 10C discharge and is rated at 1000mah to make math easy.
The maximum continuous amperage you should draw from that battery is 10 (10C) times 1 Ah (1000mah / 1000 (mah's in an Ah)) which equals 10 Amps.

Next you need to figure how much your atomizer is going to draw from your battery.
This is where Ohm's law comes into play.
Ohm's law states that Amperage equals Voltage divided by Resistance.
Or I = E / R
So lets say you have an atomizer resistance of 1 ohm and the battery is 4.2V.
(Most say to use the maximum charge voltage of your battery)
4.2V / 1ohm = 4.2A
Your 10A battery is happy with that.

Another example.
Your battery is rated at 1C and 3000mah.
1 X (3000/1000) = 3A
Your atomizer has a 1.2 ohm coil.
4.2 / 1.2 = 3.5A
You would be taxing the battery beyond its rated continuous amperage.

Also I should note that taxing a battery heavily toward its maximum rating will reduce its life.

I personally would never use a battery in a mechanical that is not an IMR (LiMn2O4) battery or IFR (LiFePo4) (lower voltage and less energy per volume than IMR) or a couple of other less noted "safe chemistry" batteries.

 

[supertrunker]

Ohm's law is this: Voltage = I(Amps) x R(resistance).

Here is why it matters: you have a 1Ω coil, so the battery is asked for i=v/r amps. Assume a fully charged battery and let's be pessimistic and say it's 4.2v.
So 4.2v. Big deal.

You need to know the specifications of your battery and this is usually given in 2 ways - constant discharge=10A for example, or a 'C' rating.

Now - i like to run a battery at the most, at say 70% of its constant discharge ability to give me a little margin of safety, rather than flat out. Suppose i use a 0.5Ω coil. Suddenly i am asking for 8.4A of current. That's kind of getting close to what i'd be happy running a 10A battery at.

I skipped over the 'C' rating but it basically the same thing. It works like this: an AW 1600Mah battery has a 'C' rating of 15 (so you realise you do need to google spec sheets for your batteries). C = mAh/1000(to give Amps) x C. So that battery can deliver 24A.

On a mechanical mod there is a subtle interplay between your battery's ability to deliver power and your ability to accurately make and measure coils.

Make sure you always measure your coils. That is why a lot of mechanical mod users go for very high end batteries capable of spikes at 30A. If you wrap a seriously evil sub-ohm coil, then you can see why.

Ohm's Law Calculator

Put say 0.3Ω in there and it's immediately obvious!

Hope that helps a bit.

T

 

[Ladiekali]

I have a chi you clone, but now im afraid to use it.
I had been using 1.3 on a 18350 battery, was getting ready to build a dual for .8 and was doing some reading,
And now i am confused about it all !

What is the point of going so low except for the clouds, seems to be more cons than pros, but im sure i am missing something.
The times i have vaped a .8 my juice was harsh, tasted chemically and was hot on my throat!

 

[supertrunker]

ninja'd by Mundy i reckon

T

 

[supertrunker]

you cannot use an 18350 for sub-ohm safely. You need a bigger battery.

T

 

[MamaTried]

here's a good starting point
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...op-reference-shop-new-experienced-vapers.html


i know some of that covers ground you already know but you can pick/choose


ETA: ninja'd by Mundy and trunker, i reckon

 

[Ladiekali]

I know that now supertrunker, but when i bought my mod and rda i wasnt told that.
Wasnt told what batteries not to use, i went in there saying hey i want an rda so i can taste test juices easier with out blowing up.

Walked out with a ticking time bomb apparently and had no idea.
Luckily i took out the .8 coil he built for me, built my own at 1.5 and have been using that.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I know that now supertrunker, but when i bought my mod and rda i wasnt told that.
Wasnt told what batteries not to use, i went in there saying hey i want an rda so i can taste test juices easier with out blowing up.

Walked out with a ticking time bomb apparently and had no idea.
Luckily i took out the .8 coil he built for me, built my own at 1.5 and have been using that.

As a general rule trunk is right on with the 18350.
If you are experienced (insert Hendrix flash back) AND have accurate measurement equipment, an AUTHENTIC AW IMR18350 will allow down to 0.7ohms (6A), but take my word for it you will reduce its life quite a bit at 0.8ohms. (That's experience talking there )

 

[supertrunker]

There seems to be a lot of selling sub ohm stuff to innocents, which does not sit very well with some of us here. By which i mean people that do not know what to expect.

Mr Mundy is an electrical engineer and i am just a fabulously good looking mangod that wishes to remain that way! I have a cracking line is sarcasm too, but the idea is that we ALL vape safely and within the limits of our abilities.

Since i live so far from anything like civilisation, i am used to researching a great deal and buying online - and yes i have bought a few lemons!

T

 

[Alexander Mundy]

There seems to be a lot of selling sub ohm stuff to innocents, which does not sit very well with some of us here. By which i mean people that do not know what to expect.

Mr Mundy is an electrical engineer and i am just a fabulously good looking mangod that wishes to remain that way! I have a cracking line is sarcasm too, but the idea is that we ALL vape safely and within the limits of our abilities.

Since i live so far from anything like civilisation, i am used to researching a great deal and buying online - and yes i have bought a few lemons!

T

Amen!

However I am a master electrician, not an engineer. I was more interested in feeling comfortably numb when I was young and dropped out of engineering school before graduating. From there my knowledge has been from the school of hard knocks. Hindsight sucks.

 

[glassgal]

Great!!! I am so glad you are going 'back to basics' with this, because these are the parts I don't understand, in red.

The first and most important is Ohm's law which goes hand in hand with battery safety.
You need to make sure you are not overtaxing your battery.
Voltage (E) is like the water pressure in a pipe.
It is potential, as in nothing happens till you turn on the faucet.

So would you say that Volts is actually the equivalent of Volume? That is, the amount of power stored in a given physical space? Or put another way, the VOLUME of POWER contained in that battery? So a 9 volt battery holds nearly 3x the volume of power as a 3.7 volt battery?

If that's the case, what is happening when I set my PV to 4.8 volts on a 3.7 volt battery? This part is where I get lost.... it makes no sense. If an 18650 battery is 3.7 volts, I can't take more than 3.7 volts from it if that's the POTENTIAL power it contains. Can you please explain this??

Amperage (I) is like the amount of water that is flowing.

Ok, this is pretty straightforward, and this is what is measured by Watts right? How much is flowing at a time, VOLUME of electricity flowing, or the SPEED of the electrical flow? These are 2 different things... which is it?

Resistance (R) is like how much you have the faucet turned off.
Note that is turned off, not on.

Ok, this makes sense... it's the amount of RESTRICTION you are placing on the flow. Ie, a 1mm opening, 5 mm opening, etc, affects the SPEED you are releasing the electricity from the supply, or the voltage pool.

Conductance is how much you have it turned on which is the inverse of resistance.
The more you turn on the faucet (lower resistance to the water flow) the more water flows. (More Amperage with less resistance)

I have never seen the term 'conductance' used in vaping. Where is it used, and what is it relevant to, when we use primarily resistance for gauging coil size/length? Is this applied to the battery itself? Perhaps the meaning of the C designation (below)?

As a side note the battery internal resistance is like the piping and pump (or height of the water column in the water tower) leading up to your faucet.
Higher internal battery resistance is like a 1/4 inch pipe which will only let so much water through no matter how much you turn on the faucet.
Lower internal battery resistance is like a 1 inch pipe which will give more water with the faucet turned all the way on.
So, Amperage is the amount of water, Voltage is the pressure of the water to the faucet, Resistance is the amount of resistance to the flow of water.

Ok, I got this, with above caveats and request for further information.

First you need to know what the maximum safe amperage is for your battery.
Confusing the issue is that some battery's are listed with a maximum Amp rating and some with a maximum "C" rating.
If it is listed as Amps "A" then no need to look further, that is it.
If it is a "C" rating then that stands for X amount times the battery's Amp / Hour rating.
However most are rated in mah (milliamp / hour) which is 1/1000th of an amp / hour.
Let's say the battery is rated for a maximum continuous 10C discharge and is rated at 1000mah to make math easy.
The maximum continuous amperage you should draw from that battery is 10 (10C) times 1 Ah (1000mah / 1000 (mah's in an Ah)) which equals 10 Amps.

Ok, this is also straightforward.

Next you need to figure how much your atomizer is going to draw from your battery.
This is where Ohm's law comes into play.
Ohm's law states that Amperage equals Voltage divided by Resistance.
Or I = E / R
So lets say you have an atomizer resistance of 1 ohm and the battery is 4.2V.
(Most say to use the maximum charge voltage of your battery)
4.2V / 1ohm = 4.2A
Your 10A battery is happy with that.

Another example.
Your battery is rated at 1C and 3000mah.
1 X (3000/1000) = 3A
Your atomizer has a 1.2 ohm coil.
4.2 / 1.2 = 3.5A
You would be taxing the battery beyond its rated continuous amperage.

Also I should note that taxing a battery heavily toward its maximum rating will reduce its life.

I personally would never use a battery in a mechanical that is not an IMR (LiMn2O4) battery or IFR (LiFePo4) (lower voltage and less energy per volume than IMR) or a couple of other less noted "safe chemistry" batteries.

Ok... I will study this, as it's the meat of the matter. I really appreciate your explaining it yet again (because this probably comes up constantly in newbie discussions). Could you help answer some of my questions above tho? Thank you very much!!

 

[glassgal]

Ohm's law is this: Voltage = I(Amps) x R(resistance).

Here is why it matters: you have a 1Ω coil, so the battery is asked for i=v/r amps. Assume a fully charged battery and let's be pessimistic and say it's 4.2v.
So 4.2v. Big deal.

You need to know the specifications of your battery and this is usually given in 2 ways - constant discharge=10A for example, or a 'C' rating.

Now - i like to run a battery at the most, at say 70% of its constant discharge ability to give me a little margin of safety, rather than flat out. Suppose i use a 0.5Ω coil. Suddenly i am asking for 8.4A of current. That's kind of getting close to what i'd be happy running a 10A battery at.

I skipped over the 'C' rating but it basically the same thing. It works like this: an AW 1600Mah battery has a 'C' rating of 15 (so you realise you do need to google spec sheets for your batteries). C = mAh/1000(to give Amps) x C. So that battery can deliver 24A.

On a mechanical mod there is a subtle interplay between your battery's ability to deliver power and your ability to accurately make and measure coils.

Make sure you always measure your coils. That is why a lot of mechanical mod users go for very high end batteries capable of spikes at 30A. If you wrap a seriously evil sub-ohm coil, then you can see why.

Ohm's Law Calculator

Put say 0.3Ω in there and it's immediately obvious!

Hope that helps a bit.

T

It does help! Every little bit helps! However, the vast majority of 18650 batteries say 3.7 volts. I've got 4 types, and none are 4.2 volts. Where are you finding these 18650 4.2 volt batteries at?

 

[supertrunker]

they charge to 4.2 volts you will find. Measure one off the charger. I use that value precisely because of that, since a lot of us change batteries at about 3.7v. If you use that value (3.7) with a fresh off the charger battery you will be underestimating the power.

That is why on a mechanical mod a lot of people are interested in the discharge curves of batteries, to see how long it can maintain that level of performance.

T