Mechs vs Provai

[HawaiiVPR]

Have the best of both world get a Provari and a Reo.

I've been on the fence with trying out the mechanical mods, but the main thing keeping me away is the horror stories about batteries melting and shorting out.

As Mackman suggested, is it common to use a regulated PV such as a Provari or innokin product with a re-buildable atomizer? I assume you have to coil the resistance to no lower than 1.5ohm, but if that's the case, is it even worth doing?

 

[DaveP]

Um, if I ran a corvette dealership i certainly would give a corvette to a new driver. Pretty much any dealership would, it would be stupid not to.

Mechs are not the "corvettes" of vaping. Mechs are if anything FAR more simple to use than a ProVari or a DNA20 or even an itazte MVP. It is a tube, with a battery, and a button.



.3 ohms on a 10amp continuous draw battery is not even close to an issue unless you draw from it continuously.

People need to stop the hyperbole surrounding batteries/mechs. The filament and open contacts on a RDA are far more likely to hurt you than the stupid battery.

Most of the people here who talk about "advanced vapers" and constantly refer to ohms law have zero idea what it is beyond a very basic equation that gives them a number when they plug in another number, and they wouldn't even know that if they weren't vaping. They couldn't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag and you should take everything they say with a bucket of salt.

I know people who don't wear eye protection when using a hammer and don't wear hearing protection on a riding lawn mower or when using a chain saw. The fact that they have done so without injury doesn't mean it's safe. "Can I do it until I have to wear glasses" comes to mind.

I spent 36 years working every day on electromechanical devices that could hurt me and emerged into retirement with all my fingers and toes and both eyes and ears intact ... well, they are old eyes and ears but they still work. My ohm's law still tells me that when you put the drip tip to your lips and press the fire button on a .3 ohm coil, you are generating a 46 watt, 12.3 amp current on a 10 amp battery. If it fires in your pocket, you could have a Roman Candle in a place where it's hard to remove.

We just want you to be safe when vaping by following the advice given by the people who make the batteries. That ten amp limit is for short periods and is only rated that way to show that it won't die and spew if you should happen to reach that limit accidentally. A protected battery can't be used for your purpose because it would shut down the first time you vaped. That tells us it isn't safe to do on a Li-ion battery. IMR batteries are more forgiving but they will eventually overheat and die, just not as dramatically as Li-ion.

You can take my advice or not, but I would recommend that you look for an IMR battery with a C rating of 20 or more for what you are doing. 10 is asking for eventual failure. I wish you well, but please look for a better battery to use with a .3 ohm load. Look for a 20 amp C rating to give yourself some cushion.

http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/battery-information/

If you’re into those ultra low resistance coils (which I don’t recommend BTW – I personally believe .8 ohms and up should be PLENTY good enough) KNOW YOUR BATTERY!!! Be sure that the battery is capable and rated to generate the amount of amps required by your setup! For example:

Setup 1 = 1 ohm coil with a loaded voltage of 4.0V (just an example). Using Ohms law, Amps = Voltage/Resistance = 4 Amp Draw. Easy for most batteries!

Setup 2 = .3 ohm coil (which I DO NOT recommend) with a loaded voltage of 4.0V (again, just an example). Using Ohms law, Amps = Voltage/Resistance = 13.3 Amp Draw. Can your battery support that?
A NOTE ABOUT C-RATINGS

The C-Rating of the battery defines the maximum draw (in amps) that the battery is capable of. To calculate the max amp draw you need the C-Rating and the mAh of the battery. For example a 2000 mAh battery rated at 10C would be:

Max Amp Draw = (mAh / 1000) * C-Rating

(2000 / 1000) * 10 = 20 Amp Max Draw

Note: Running your batteries at their C-Rating will decrease the overall life of the battery.

The C-Rating also indicates the amount of time the battery can support that discharge rate. A 1 C battery can support the calculated draw continuously for 1 hour. 2 C would be 1/2 of an hour. 10C would be 1/10 of an hour.

 

[e-pipeman]

Yes, of course it's worth doing. I use an Igo-l with a Vamo v2. But I normally use a 1.8-2.5 ohm coil. You don't need to go sub-ohm to get clouds.

 

[HawaiiVPR]

Yes, of course it's worth doing. I use an Igo-l with a Vamo v2. But I normally use a 1.8-2.5 ohm coil. You don't need to go sub-ohm to get clouds.

In that case, I think I'll give it a go. I'm not really interested in the cloud chasing part, I guess my primary interest is more with the tinkering aspect as well as being able to get easy draws and good vapor/taste production. Cheers!

 

[TreVader]

I know people who don't wear eye protection when using a hammer and don't wear hearing protection on a riding lawn mower or when using a chain saw. The fact that they have done so without injury doesn't mean it's safe. "Can I do it until I have to wear glasses" comes to mind.

I spent 36 years working every day on electromechanical devices that could hurt me and emerged into retirement with all my fingers and toes and both eyes and ears intact ... well, they are old eyes and ears but they still work. My ohm's law still tells me that when you put the drip tip to your lips and press the fire button on a .3 ohm coil, you are generating a 46 watt, 12.3 amp current on a 10 amp battery. If it fires in your pocket, you could have a Roman Candle in a place where it's hard to remove.

We just want you to be safe when vaping by following the advice given by the people who make the batteries. That ten amp limit is for short periods and is only rated that way to show that it won't die and spew if you should happen to reach that limit accidentally. A protected battery can't be used for your purpose because it would shut down the first time you vaped. That tells us it isn't safe to do on a Li-ion battery. IMR batteries are more forgiving but they will eventually overheat and die, just not as dramatically as Li-ion.

You can take my advice or not, but I would recommend that you look for an IMR battery with a C rating of 20 or more for what you are doing. 10 is asking for eventual failure. I wish you well, but please look for a better battery to use with a .3 ohm load. Look for a 20 amp C rating to give yourself some cushion.

Taste Your Juice | BATTERY INFORMATION

"Safe" is an incredibly subjective concept. Technically if you really want to be safe your best bet would be to live in a bubble under a bunker and have your food mailed to you, but most of us would consider that ludicrous. At the same time, people who went into space on the shuttle knowingly took a roughly 1/200 chance of EXPLODING... and that's as "safe" as it gets in that profession.

It's great that you're a Turing award winner and also invented the cavity magnetron but it's irrelevant. The fact is, the "danger" posed by drawing a mere 50% over the continuous amp rating on a battery is WAY overblown.

But being patronizing is always fun. I can understand how it must be fun to exhibit this small amount of knowledge that you possess and act like you're doing everyone a favor.

 

[sawlight]

"Safe" is an incredibly subjective concept. Technically if you really want to be safe your best bet would be to live in a bubble under a bunker and have your food mailed to you, but most of us would consider that ludicrous. At the same time, people who went into space on the shuttle knowingly took a roughly 1/200 chance of EXPLODING... and that's as "safe" as it gets in that profession.

It's great that you're a Turing award winner and also invented the cavity magnetron but it's irrelevant. The fact is, the "danger" posed by drawing a mere 50% over the continuous amp rating on a battery is WAY overblown.

But being patronizing is always fun. I can understand how it must be fun to exhibit this small amount of knowledge that you possess and act like you're doing everyone a favor.

Condescending much? I'd call you what you are if it weren't for the fact I'd get banned for it! Seems like you will be number two on my ignore list!

It's "only 50%" over the amp rating! Never mind the internal resistance that might be built up in the battery, never mind half the newbies that try this crap don't own or know how to use an ohm meter to start with, but they went buy what they read on the internet for resistance, and we all know if it's on the internet it must be true! Then never mind a hot spot or short that might have occurred, "yeah, the battery may get hot, it's ok though!"! This is just like the other jackwagon that was on here a while back, I think/hope, he got banned for telling newbies it was stupid to buy an ohm meter to set up sub ohm coils, just measure the wire and go, that's all you need to do!
There's a lot more to it than just knowing ohms law, there's a lot more to it than knowing battery safety. WE, as a community,are in a battle right now, and idiots blowing themselves up, or having battery issues, fires/etc. on the six o'clock news aren't helping us AT ALL!!
As I told someone else not long ago, I hope you remember how smart you are when the news station shows up at your hospital room and don't say anything about an e-cig being what caused your injuries! Good luck to you, you're going to need it!

 

[Camaroboi13]

In my opinion, saying mechs are the "hot rod" of units would be incorrect. When you think hotrod, you think lots of power, lots of smoke, and lots of attention.

If I had to choose one (still saying the provari is a merc) I would venture out and say that the mechs are like the aircooled volkswagens of vaping. None of them run the same, some are faster than others, some make more smoke than others, some run right, and some don't. Some people know all the ins and outs and know what it takes to get the simplest of engines to purr like a kitten. It takes experience to get to that point. In the eyes of a Volkswagen owner, it DOES ride like a Mercedes without all the stupid buttons. Only one switch in the Volkswagen...the ignition switch, and that's the way we like it. I dare any one of you to go out and find yourself a real live aircooled guy, complete with oily hands and spare points in the glove box, and see if they'd trade that lifetime for a Merc.

 

[DaveP]

"Safe" is an incredibly subjective concept. Technically if you really want to be safe your best bet would be to live in a bubble under a bunker and have your food mailed to you, but most of us would consider that ludicrous. At the same time, people who went into space on the shuttle knowingly took a roughly 1/200 chance of EXPLODING... and that's as "safe" as it gets in that profession.

It's great that you're a Turing award winner and also invented the cavity magnetron but it's irrelevant. The fact is, the "danger" posed by drawing a mere 50% over the continuous amp rating on a battery is WAY overblown.

But being patronizing is always fun. I can understand how it must be fun to exhibit this small amount of knowledge that you possess and act like you're doing everyone a favor.

Did you click the battery information link and read about C ratings and the danger of exceeding them?

TreVader, I don't think anyone here cares if people vape sub ohm coils. It's just not something that should be considered in the safety zone and imitated by those who might try it without knowing the pitfalls of battery limitations. If you make it sound mainstream, some new member just might try it, keep puffing, and wonder why the battery gets hot. That could be pretty dangerous and I think you know that.

So, I quote the pitfalls for the benefit of those who need to know what they are getting into. IMO, it's operating on the edge of safe use of an atomizer and battery.

And, by the way, I do know from where I speak about circuit design and limits. And, like many of my cohorts, I have accidentally let the smoke out of a few transistors and integrated circuits, and have heard the sickening pop of a failed capacitor. All it takes is a slip of the meter probe.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Take it easy ladies and gents. If you can't talk to each other respectfully on the forum, you'll probably lose the privilege of talking on the forum.

 

[sawlight]

Take it easy ladies and gents. If you can't talk to each other respectfully on the forum, you'll probably lose the privilege of talking on the forum.

I apologize, I just hope people have a TRUE understanding of the forces at work before offering advice on how to do things. Again, I'm sorry.

 

[madqatter]

"Safe" is an incredibly subjective concept.

Did you click the battery information link and read about C ratings and the danger of exceeding them?

TreVader, I don't think anyone here cares if people vape sub ohm coils. It's just not something that should be considered in the safety zone and imitated by those who might try it without knowing the pitfalls of battery limitations. If you make it sound mainstream, some new member just might try it, keep puffing, and wonder why the battery gets hot. That could be pretty dangerous and I think you know that.

So, I quote the pitfalls for the benefit of those who need to know what they are getting into. IMO, it's operating on the edge of safe use of an atomizer and battery.

And, by the way, I do know from where I speak about circuit design and limits. And, like many of my cohorts, I have accidentally let the smoke out of a few transistors and integrated circuits, and have heard the sickening pop of a failed capacitor. All it takes is a slip of the meter probe.

TreVader claims not to use a meter:

I never measure resistance.... if the battery gets hot, i make the coil longer. I've built coils that by all rights should've blown my MNKEs....

Not a great source for safety information.

 

[sawlight]

TreVader claims not to use a meter:

Not a great source for safety information.

It's just your face, what could go wrong?

 

[classwife]

Safety should always be a priority...using all the knowledge that is available.

Irresponsibility can create catastrophic accidents, those accidents make National/World news and hurt the vaping community as a whole.

Vape smart - vape safe !

 

[e-pipeman]

Safety should always be a priority...using all the knowledge that is available.

Irresponsibility can create catastrophic accidents, those accidents make National/World news and hurt the vaping community as a whole.

Vape smart - vape safe !

+1

10 characters

 

[TreVader]

Condescending much? I'd call you what you are if it weren't for the fact I'd get banned for it! Seems like you will be number two on my ignore list!

It's "only 50%" over the amp rating! Never mind the internal resistance that might be built up in the battery, never mind half the newbies that try this crap don't own or know how to use an ohm meter to start with, but they went buy what they read on the internet for resistance, and we all know if it's on the internet it must be true! Then never mind a hot spot or short that might have occurred, "yeah, the battery may get hot, it's ok though!"! This is just like the other jackwagon that was on here a while back, I think/hope, he got banned for telling newbies it was stupid to buy an ohm meter to set up sub ohm coils, just measure the wire and go, that's all you need to do!
There's a lot more to it than just knowing ohms law, there's a lot more to it than knowing battery safety. WE, as a community,are in a battle right now, and idiots blowing themselves up, or having battery issues, fires/etc. on the six o'clock news aren't helping us AT ALL!!
As I told someone else not long ago, I hope you remember how smart you are when the news station shows up at your hospital room and don't say anything about an e-cig being what caused your injuries! Good luck to you, you're going to need it!

You'd do this if that? Yeah whatever, try not being so vague I really have no idea what I am besides someone with far more common sense and knowledge about electrical engineering than you. Nothing you said refutes any of the points I made.

If you want to predict the end of the world every time anybody rides a bike without a helmet that's your deal, but the reality is you have no idea what you're talking about and you're entire argument is a massively overblown red herring.


You can whine about safety all you like

 

[TreVader]

Did you click the battery information link and read about C ratings and the danger of exceeding them?

TreVader, I don't think anyone here cares if people vape sub ohm coils. It's just not something that should be considered in the safety zone and imitated by those who might try it without knowing the pitfalls of battery limitations. If you make it sound mainstream, some new member just might try it, keep puffing, and wonder why the battery gets hot. That could be pretty dangerous and I think you know that.

So, I quote the pitfalls for the benefit of those who need to know what they are getting into. IMO, it's operating on the edge of safe use of an atomizer and battery.

And, by the way, I do know from where I speak about circuit design and limits. And, like many of my cohorts, I have accidentally let the smoke out of a few transistors and integrated circuits, and have heard the sickening pop of a failed capacitor. All it takes is a slip of the meter probe.

You are correct in that there is certainly a risk of equipment failure but I maintain it is very small.


I am not saying people should do this or that, I'm just saying that there is a lot of doom and gloom about batteries when the real safety concerns are fire and the RDA. Open contacts on a nichrome or kanthal filament are far more likely to hurt somebody than any battery failure because lighting stuff on fire isn't a failure it's just what the 900F + heat of the coil does when it touches anything flammable.


If we're going to focus on safety, focus on the most realistic way in which somebody is going to get hurt.

 

[TreVader]

TreVader claims not to use a meter:

Not a great source for safety information.

I don't use a meter beyond my provari, what of it? I use micro coils which are very easy to replicate. all I have to do is put one coil on the provari and it will read double the resistance of the dual coil setup (more or less).


I'm not here pitching safety information, i'm pitching ACCURATE information about the real risks. It's too bad you can't grasp the concept that knowledge about facts is better than shockvertising your views to make a point. You are just like those "truth" commercials.

 

[Krizzell]

Just saw a post by a guy who fell asleep with his mech mod in a chair. The button was pushed on and luckily he woke up when he felt the heat from the mod. The battery had started to vent outer cover was gone and negative post was just about there. Would not happen with a regulated or if he used a fuse . Yeah don't fall asleep with your mod but we know this can happen.

 

[Ryedan]

I really have no idea what I am besides someone with far more common sense and knowledge about electrical engineering than you.

To address your points TreVader, your knowledge of electrical engineering is lacking. I suspect most people have significantly more common sense than you and will not give undue significance to the unsafe content of your posts. What worries me is that someone who doesn't get it will have an accident because they did listen to you.

If you would like to get better at electrical engineering, you have been given a lot of great information in this thread to get you started. It is of course up to you to do the research or not.

Vape on

 

[Dannyboy5691]

I spent 36 years working every day on electromechanical devices that could hurt me and emerged into retirement with all my fingers and toes and both eyes and ears intact ... well, they are old eyes and ears but they still work. My ohm's law still tells me that when you put the drip tip to your lips and press the fire button on a .3 ohm coil, you are generating a 46 watt, 12.3 amp current on a 10 amp battery. If it fires in your pocket, you could have a Roman Candle in a place where it's hard to remove.

Hey Dave what ohms law calculator are you using? When I put in my numbers (.3ohms, 4.2v) in my calculator I get 58.8 watts, 14amps. This is for a 10amp Panasonic NCR18650PD. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just wondering if my calculator is off, thanks.