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Sharky

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 1, 2009
323
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62
Phoenix AZ
Well, you have some suggestions?

I mean, I can keep telling you that we don't selectively enforce the rules, and you can keep disbelieving me. It's somewhat of an impasse, and I don't really know what to do about it, save for letting everyone into the moderators private area so they can see exactly how much discussion goes into making decisions.

Obviously I'm not going to do that, so what suggestions do you have? I'm all ears - please PM me.

Back to your OP, my point still stands - the vast majority of reported posts reference spam and offensive content. It's not snitching to report that.

So if you and I will continue to voice the same opinion with neither believing the other, what is the point of continuing the discussion? I think it best that we leave it and move on.

Your personal attack on my character by insinuating that I condone rascism, homophobism, or any other ism you care to include was a great disappointment to me. It is a shame that a subject cannot be discussed by two adults without personal attacks becoming an issue.

I am done with this topic because it is a no win situation.

AMF
 

ZambucaLu

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 23, 2008
10,262
22
Central NY, USA
The policy has always been that SJ posted looking for volunteers....it was made very clear. And anyone who applied was reviewed and chosen depending on various criteria. The position was offered to a few of the vets who we thought might be interested....those were refusals as most of them preferred to continue on in a member capacity here....but any vets could have equally applied at any time.

When I co-owned an online group, it was small, like 1000 members. With that number of members, it was easy to own it, moderate it and interact with the members. But with a group this size, that is almost impossible. Most of the moderators here end up giving up a lot of the socializing here to take care of the matters that come in and need moderation. See my post count? That's not from forum posting...that's from posting in the backend, trying to take care of my mod responsibilities. When people realize this, they are not so gung ho to moderate....and prefer being able to participate in the forum as they have been.

And with being a mod, not only can you not say many things you'd like to, but you also don't have the time to actively participate as you do as a member. It's just the way it is.

As SJ said, a large focus of this job is keeping track of spammers...and we are not talking about Nike and ....... We are talking the multitudes of suppliers who try to sneak in here and advertise without registering first. Or the ones who pretend they are members and go around spamming a site in all of their posts. Think it's easy to spot those on a forum this big?

And we are equally devoted to making the forum a safe and harmonious place for those with an interest in the ecig world to congregate without fear of being ridiculed, insulted, called names, sworn at, etc. Maybe if you ever read the reviews from people who actually appreciate ECF, you will see that they are thankful for that.

And you would not believe the number of daily complaints we get revolving around those issues either, and each one is addressed. And in doing so, sometimes the mods are not popular people. And that is another reason some do not want to act in that capacity. Yes, there is a job to do and that will involve infracting people and banning people and I think it's pretty obvious why some would not want the job simply for those reasons.

SJ has set forth rules to protect the majority of people here and we are here to enforce those rules. We are here to try to keep ECF as trouble free as possible, while trying to keep it running as smoothly as possible. We have found the majority of members prefer this so we choose not to subject them to a handful who want to come in and be disruptive. And that takes a lot of work.

As a long time member, I can clearly remember several complaints of people not wanting to come here any more because of the constant bickering. Well, we've taken steps to manage that. The big complaints now are 'I am an adult and I want to say what I want to say'. Well, sorry, not here you won't. If you can't say what you have to say with some modicum of civility, then you're going to have a problem. And if you can't be respectful of the rules, they you're going to have a problem. It's really as simple as that. And I think the rules are pretty specific in the Forum Rules section....and the mods here are expected to enforce those rules.

So all in all, we had hoped more vets would be interested in moderating here but for their own reasons, they were not....so choices were made. It is what it is.

ECF is for old and new alike and for those just learning about ecigs, it is a place for them to safely start out. At some point, they may choose to stay and try to learn more, or help others along the way...or for their own reasons, they leave. And so goes the life cycle of an online forum.

Lu
 

ZambucaLu

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 23, 2008
10,262
22
Central NY, USA
Your personal attack on my character by insinuating that I condone rascism, homophobism, or any other ism you care to include was a great disappointment to me. It is a shame that a subject cannot be discussed by two adults without personal attacks becoming an issue.

What??? lol

Because SJ said this, you are taking that as a personal attack that you condone those? What in the world??? And this is just how things get twisted around, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Sharky, you think reporting spam, racism, homophobia etc is snitching? Fair enough. I don't.
 

Houdini

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 12, 2009
2,107
39
65
Las Vegas
Houdini, I'm really sorry if you feel excluded by not being invited. If you'd like to apply, perhaps you'd shoot me a PM?
If I had been asked before this thread existed I would have taken it has someone thinks I deserve to be a moderator. I still would have declined with thanks. Being asked after this thread makes it sound like I was begging and being thrown a bone to keep quiet. Like I said before I believe being a mod should be a distinction not handed out to anyone. Being a mod and involved in this for over a year I would be no different in status than TimTam who is a mod and has only been here less than 3 months. So thanks for the offer but no thanks.
 

Oliver

ECF Founder, formerly SmokeyJoe
Admin
Verified Member
Gosh, it's worse than being a politician this!

No I was not, in any way, suggesting you condone spam, racism or homophobia. I honestly don't know how you could interpret my comment that way.

You implied that reporting posts was snitching. I was making the point that the majority of reported posts were of either spam or offensive content and that I don't regard that to be snitching.

Anyway, it's sad you won't give me your suggestions as to how to improve things, you've obviously given it a lot of thought.

By the way, as to the OP of this thread - I will try to put an explanatory post up somewhere this week, outlining the progression of titles etc. Sorry I hadn't done it before, I honestly didn't realise people were that interested. Naive of me perhaps, but occasionally one misses the wood for the trees running this place!

SJ
 

ZambucaLu

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 23, 2008
10,262
22
Central NY, USA
Houdini, over the past several months, you probably realize ECF has gone through a lot of changes....new server, new mods, a new management team, etc. Things were moving fast and with the way the forum has been growing, choices had to be made. The current mods not only applied for the position, but put effort into those applications, and some of them even applied more than once. There was a lot of consideration taken there.

During the process, we did consider some vets whose names quickly came to mind. Yes, some were approached and they declined....but as we were trying to get things in place rather quickly, decisions had to be made. We had really hoped that more vets would apply...ergo SJ's post in the vets forum. It's unfortunate that more didn't respond then but that's just how it went. It takes time to train mods and time was of the essence at that point.

Sorry if during that time you were not personally approached but really, that is nothing personal. We were moving in a lot of directions, simultaneously dealing with a lot of changes...the offer was out there....we approached a few vets....and the process moved along. But if any vets are still interested, they could easily contact SJ. You know he will look into it.

Really, this sounds like an issue that could easily have been resolved through PMs but instead, was brought to the open forum. So now it becomes more of a three ring circus than anything else. Wonder what it has accomplished?

Lu
 

Timtam

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 30, 2009
1,557
95
Australia
If I had been asked before this thread existed I would have taken it has someone thinks I deserve to be a moderator. I still would have declined with thanks. Being asked after this thread makes it sound like I was begging and being thrown a bone to keep quiet. Like I said before I believe being a mod should be a distinction not handed out to anyone. Being a mod and involved in this for over a year I would be no different in status than TimTam who is a mod and has only been here less than 3 months. So thanks for the offer but no thanks.

Just a FYI, I have been working with phpBB for 5 years, vB for 4, SMF for 4, IPB for 3 and YaBB for 1. I'd like to think you could see through post count and join date, and see what I try to do for this community. I always try to help out the other mods and admins when it comes to the forums, I try to help out any member who PM's me and I try to moderate as much as I can. I am on at some strange times according to these forums, and this is one of the big reasons they selected me for the position. Not to mention, I thought I could help out the forums, as I saw a need for moderators on when I am.
Moderator is just not something that is given out to everyone, and a lot of thought goes into selecting new ones. I have seen 2 new mods come on board since me, and believe me, the discussion that goes into selecting these mods is thorough.

Also, you don't really need much knowledge of PV's or anything e-cig related to be a mod, because those threads really never need moderating. You do need forum experience, and prior moderation experience will be looked favourably on. I'd like to think in my years, I have a bit of experience of moderation, and I do try my hardest when it does come to moderating and enforcing the rules.
 

JeannieB360

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 24, 2009
535
10
Central New Jersey, USA
And we are equally devoted to making the forum a safe and harmonious place for those with an interest in the ecig world to congregate without fear of being ridiculed, insulted, called names, sworn at, etc. Maybe if you ever read the reviews from people who actually appreciate ECF, you will see that they are thankful for that.
Lu

I'm definitely thankful about the moderators making the forum a safe and harmonious place! Thank you, SJ and mods.
 

TWISTED VICTOR

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Sep 14, 2009
3,461
67
61
The edge of Mayhem
I'm definitely thankful about the moderators making the forum a safe and harmonious place! Thank you, SJ and mods.
I used to have to carry pepper spray while browsing the forum, now the Mods are carrying stun guns. We're planning a new park downtown for next summer :).
 

Richie G

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 15, 2009
1,986
562
65
Lawn Guyland, NY
By the way, as to the OP of this thread - I will try to put an explanatory post up somewhere this week, outlining the progression of titles etc. Sorry I hadn't done it before, I honestly didn't realise people were that interested. Naive of me perhaps, but occasionally one misses the wood for the trees running this place!

SJ

>

Actually, it was me that suggested a matrix of sorts, SJ. It's not about some odd interest in hierarchy status. It's more about new posters who are forced to repeat the same questions of; "When can I ____?" , "How many posts before I can ___?", etc. We've all read those valid questions hundreds of times, it seems -- in fact, I probably asked a few of them myself once upon a time. =)
 
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