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Message from Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania

Discussion in 'Campaigning discussions' started by Bill Godshall, Apr 2, 2009.

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  1. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    A minority group of drug users will have to go a long way to win the moral high ground.

    Ethics of freedom to take risks might be a better way to look at it.

    Don't pretend there are no risks, be honest and you'll not seem so deluded about taking them.
  2. LaceyUnderall

    LaceyUnderall Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 4, 2008
    USA and Canada
    Points noted. :)
  3. winston8256

    winston8256 Full Member

    Mar 9, 2009
    I have found it to be the only quitting aid that really works.

    Geez. How free are we as a people when others can derail our success at quitting tobacco.:-x
  4. My biggest problem with quitting is the drugs and patches my doc reccomended, the whole ball of wax, every one of them we looked at one side effect: seizures.
    Been there done that for 19 years, don't want any 'side effects' top bring on my epilepsy again. Cost me over 250K to get rid of them the first time.
    Not to mention the risks of the surgery!
    Started using my first e-cig yesterday.
  5. ladyraj

    ladyraj Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 30, 2009
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Why in the world would you use this product if you do not know that seizures are a side effect? Particularly, after all you have been thru? You wisely checked out other alternatives for side effects but did not wait for the research on the e-cig. If you have had surgery for epilepsy then you know the ramifications of triggers, this one is unknown. In my humble opinion, I suggest you put the e-cig down until the research is complete, please.
  6. DisMan

    DisMan Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 2, 2008
    I'm still waiting on the verdict of Microsoft's system security research. There's been some published findings in both directions. I'm waiting for an, I can't use my computer until I know what I'm vulnerable to.

    Please let me know when the research is complete so I can finally use a computer to type this message.

    Screw it...I'll just take the risk.
  7. ladyraj

    ladyraj Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 30, 2009
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Wow, what a comparison! I'm amazed that you equate someone's documented health problems with software. He was treated for epilepsy and should be warned away. If you disagree with my stance justify it on medical grounds. Your argument is unfortunate.

    Remember the powers that be may be watching these threads and giving medical scenarios...we must answer responsibly. One seizure is too many with our e-cigs.
  8. Bones

    Bones Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 3, 2009
    Austin, Texas
    You make some valid points I will grant you but - Consider how many drugs we have seen being advertised with FDA approval and a long long list of negative side effects (in some cases death) - Many of them have follow up adverts in a year or so that say something like "DID YOUR LOVED ONE DIE FROM TAKING THE NEW DRUG WE SOLD YOU LAST YEAR? THEN SUE!" -

    Seems that there are two different arguments at play here -
    1 - What will likely happen in reality?
    2 - If that reality is just or fair?

    By the rules at play - you are correct - there should have been efforts to prove saftey before going global with the sale of the substance - However - It is the random ignorance with wich the rules are applied that is upsetting. The big pharmacutical companies go through all the right proceedures, pay all the proper fees and buy all the right politicians and produce FDA approved killers all the time. Exotic compounds that truly have no extensive real world trials - If the Letter of the law is upheld - Then let the Spirit of the law be damed -

    The ingredients in the e-juice are VERY WELL KNOWN and do not change into some magically toxic brew when inhaled - That's the ideology -


    What I forsee happening is a regulation on the e-juice containing nicotine - The devices will be sold with nicotine free flavor mixes - Just as Vaporizers and "water pipes" for illicit smoke are sold today along with little bags of dried out 10 year old tobacco that no one thinks is ever actually going to be smoked in the "water pipe" - Then you will just get your e-juice on the black market - I can make you 5 gallons in a week - It ain't rocket science - :)

    The FDA would have NO CONTROL if the nicotine was taken out of the juice. - Remember they are not talking about outlawing nicotine - which can still be found - Or tobacco - Which can very easily be used to extract the nicotine - It is the combination of the nicotine and the PV - the new drug delivery system - If they do actually ban the devices - go buy one of the legal vaporizers and put tobacco in it - The "water pipe" guys have devices that vaporize dry plant matter and elimnate combustion and they work real good too :) - been around a lot longer than e-cigs - all the bugs worked out.

    The big e-cig industry error was not taking a clue from the "water pipe" guys. The nicotine and the device should never have been boxed together - That's what makes it a "drug delivery device" and whoever started making them look like a real cigarette and encouraging users to flaunt them in the face of smoking bans - That was just stupid - The flags really went red then -

    Of course the final step will be to have nicotine juice become legal - Manufactured buy Phizer - Available only with prescription and costs $250.00 for a 10ml bottle -

    Peace ~

    Been free of tobacco for 2 weeks - I LOVE MY KISSBOX - If they wanna take it it'll be . . . . . FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!
  9. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    We could all use your insider update on what changes were made in the bill that passed today. Any amendments worthy of note? Are e-cigs imperiled along with snus, dissolvables and nasal snuff?

    I assume you've been on this case non-stop!
  10. KreeL

    KreeL Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2009
    West Texas
    I understood the risks of chainsmoking analogs for 36 years.

    Vaping for the remaining 30 years should be a walk in the park by comparison.
  11. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    Just to clarify, neither of the two amendments (to the FDA tobacco legislation) that impacted e-cigarettes were approved by the US Senate.

    Tom Coburn withdrew his amendment (that would have specifically excluded e-cigarettes from the definition of a tobacco product), while the Burr/Hagan substitute
    amendment (that would have defined e-cigarettes as a new category of tobacco product) was defeated by Senate Democrats (primarily because it didn't give FDA any authority to regulate tobacco products).
  12. gjrhine

    gjrhine Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 18, 2009
    Sunny South Carolina
    Do we take that as good news?

    STILLSMOK9 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Drum Roll..............................?
  14. yvilla

    yvilla Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 18, 2008
    Rochester, NY
    But Bill, I don't think it's so crystal clear that the under the new legislation the FDA couldn't deem ecigs to be "tobacco products" within the scope of the bill, as the nicotine liquid is in fact "derived" from tobacco. This has been acknowledged for example by DeKang, probably the largest eliquid manufactutor of all. And, the FDA would be especially motivated to do that if by chance the Judge in the SE/Njoy litigation agrees that ecigs are not "new drugs" needing to go through the NDA process.

    I'm wondering it you would amplify your thoughts on this a bit more.
  15. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    I strongly doubt that a federal court would issue a ruling stating that the FDA cannot regulate e-cigarettes as drugs, drug-devices or combination products. And if that happened, I think the ruling would be quickly overturned on appeal.

    I'd be pleasantly shocked if the FDA changed their position and began asserting that e-cigarettes are tobacco products, as that way the FDA couldn't ban the products from the market, and the FDA would have to rescind their import warning on e-cigarettes.
  16. LaceyUnderall

    LaceyUnderall Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 4, 2008
    USA and Canada
    But aren't the import warnings for specific manufacturers and not for e-cigs in general?
  17. Boston George

    Boston George Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2009
    Rochester, NY
    My understanding is that they are targeting manufacturers so that its easier to find the product. However, the warning itself is against the device.
  18. redjazzy1

    redjazzy1 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 14, 2009
    So I think I'm posting this in the right place... I had a "campaigning" idea. I just did a Google search and a search at Meet and there are NO groups that get together in their cities and vape. I'm going to start an Orlando, Florida group. We can meet up once a month and maybe spread the good word... pass it on to your FL vaping forum friends!
  19. redjazzy1

    redjazzy1 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 14, 2009
    okay, so wants to charge me to have a thing there... anybody from Florida around longer than me? I'm too new here to start a group... I'll be more than happy to take care of the details if someone wants to volunteer to be a figurehead... a pretty face... ;)
  20. Breakfree

    Breakfree Full Member

    Jun 1, 2009
    Clearwater, Florida
    Yes, It "seems" like a good way to organize and meetup but they do charge for it now. It used to be free but they got greedy. I would like to help you but I'm in the Tampa Bay area (not Orlando) and I'm not gonna pay either. :mad:

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