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I still can't figure this out. If a governor is able to ban a product based on a public health threat how come they never banned cigarettes under the same powers? Those are documented to kill tens of thousands of their citizens but they don't use such public health powers over that?
Yup, public health comes first.
Yup, public health comes first.
Nope, money comes first and last, along with votes. They don't want to lose the smoking voters and there were more of them than vapers.
Well, AND, the grand plan of getting the kiddies used to tobacco flavors so cigs taste better when they switch later. 
Tobacco-Vape, the new kiddie tobacco???? Anyone remember candy cigs? Yeah, like that. Thanks Whitmer.
The main thing with vape flavors is that they DON'T taste like tobacco. (And the tobacco flavors were intended for smokers to switch to vaping, but now that's the ONLY option. Grrr).
Tobacco-Vape, the new kiddie tobacco???? Anyone remember candy cigs? Yeah, like that. Thanks Whitmer.
The main thing with vape flavors is that they DON'T taste like tobacco. (And the tobacco flavors were intended for smokers to switch to vaping, but now that's the ONLY option. Grrr).
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What was this thread ab
Yep it was Carling Black Label or Colt 45 crud is to good a description.....oh when we were young and foolish, I can taste it now
Carling Black Label was the only beer that was so bad that I threw it out, the thought of throwing out beer nearly gave me heart failure. It was good for me that I did it when I was young and strong of heart - if I did it today, I might not survive.
I agree see who the Gov's biggest donors are. They don't give a sh** about people unless they need their vote or their money.
- How do you know when a Politicians Lying - Their lips are moving
- Politicians and diapers have one thing in common, they should both be changed regularly… and for the same reason, they are full of....................
- Whats the difference between a politician and a snail?
One is a slimy pest and leaves a trail everywhere they go and the other is a snail.
On the federal level, they've always used the qualifier "characterizing" when it comes to flavors. I.e. if a flavor isn't distinctly noticeable, it doesn't count.
I'll just stick to 3 55-gallon drums. That's 3 bottles, right?
This is exactly right. Anybody who thinks all this anti vaping hysteria has ANYthing whatsoever to do with public health and saving teens? Well... they have you right where they want you.
>Tax and regulate smoking to appease hippy masses for 'health reasons'
>Uptick in quitting and alternative means of quitting smoking
>Massive reduction in revenue
>Find alternative straw man to tax and regulate
>Punish citizens for following law made by out-of-touch politicians for 'dem feels'
>Boost black market
>Imprison citizens
>State goes bankrupt
Politicians: WIN
I don't believe this is about power and money. I think the governor is reacting to the recent illegitimate ecig health issues, wrapped up in the unending flow of negative statements and contrived studies. The pressure from the many "health organizations" is not offset much by pro-vaping concerns, so that's most of the information decisions are being based on. The flavors issue has been part of the misinformation campaign for so long most all non-vapers believe it.
I fault her for not identifying the real problem, which is people putting things in ecigs that aren't safe. An education campaign and and simply restricting ecig sales to over 18 establishments would make sense.
I fault her for not identifying the real problem, which is people putting things in ecigs that aren't safe. An education campaign and and simply restricting ecig sales to over 18 establishments would make sense.
Will we only become angry when our ox is gored? We have accepted the slow erosion of liberty for years but, then, the those losses of liberty were always for a "good reason".
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Martin Neimoller 1892-1894
And now there is no one but you left to speak for you.
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Martin Neimoller 1892-1894
And now there is no one but you left to speak for you.
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So, if I understand correctly, you think she has public health concerns at heart and not about re-elections, upward movement and such? I am sorry but I disagree based on my past experiences with governors, congress and senate reps. It is always about politics and careers with these people. Otherwise, why should she have accepted contributions from the tobacco industry in her campaign.
The "problem" by her definition is nicotine addiction. From any source.
Reality is messy, not absolute. So as you observe, it's probably a whole combination of things. But I don't think 440BB's observation is invalid, nor is yours.
It's all of it, combined. This isn't new. It is where (let's just say old-time writers) got the saying of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Are politicians political? Sure! But is she, in her own mind, well-intended? I'd say she is. She thinks she's saving a future generation from nicotine addiction as much as possible. It's ALSO politically expedient and ALSO based on the ANTZ mis-information.
We here are largely skeptical as to the results (where the road leads). It's hard to tell the ramifications of this, but I suspect at minimum a large uptick in street-juices and black-market crap. And if the recent [unmentionable] substance incidents have taught us anything, it's that street vendors aren't very conscientious.
Will it reduce teen vaping? IDK, I'm skeptical.
I was a dual user for 6 weeks. One of the things that helped with the transition was how eliquid flavoring changed my sense of taste such that cigarettes began to taste bad and finally awful. The last time I took a random puff on a cigarette (years ago) it was wretched.
The governor may have focused the entire vaping controversy on herself and Michigan. May be Michigan will be a dress rehersal for what might happen nationally nex May.
The governor may have focused the entire vaping controversy on herself and Michigan. May be Michigan will be a dress rehersal for what might happen nationally nex May.
You are joking right, of course it's about power and money, maybe alongside health issues, just maybe.
And to be fair to the general-concept here...outside of motivations and most implications...the flavorings are probably the most controllable high-risk part of vaping. There's probably millions of combinations of flavorings. If any, say, 10 of them are popular and harmful, what does that do to the vaping industry long term?
Scientifically, it's an interesting test case. But it's only for a year so there won't be any good data to come from it. And there's not a proper study where we have control groups and defined sets of flavorings...it's all so "open" that it's hard to tell.
The unknowns are one of the reasons I primarily vape unflavored juice at this stage of my vaping. But they were important to me to start with.
AND I happen to have some locally purchased juice I'm vaping right now that has flavor (they don't sell unflavored juice where I got this, ironically). I usually DIY and mix my own, but I was out. So here I am, in MI, vaping flavored juice because I couldn't get unflavored at a local shop, and now I'm complaining about a flavor ban. Holy crap the cosmos is funny.
Scientifically, it's an interesting test case. But it's only for a year so there won't be any good data to come from it. And there's not a proper study where we have control groups and defined sets of flavorings...it's all so "open" that it's hard to tell.
The unknowns are one of the reasons I primarily vape unflavored juice at this stage of my vaping. But they were important to me to start with.
AND I happen to have some locally purchased juice I'm vaping right now that has flavor (they don't sell unflavored juice where I got this, ironically). I usually DIY and mix my own, but I was out. So here I am, in MI, vaping flavored juice because I couldn't get unflavored at a local shop, and now I'm complaining about a flavor ban. Holy crap the cosmos is funny.
I am probably just cynical based on my personal experience but I don't believe anyone has any best interests at heart when they accept money from BT or BT interests.
If she thinks nicotine is bad, why take money from the devil? I call a hypocrite where I see one.
If she thinks nicotine is bad, why take money from the devil? I call a hypocrite where I see one.
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