Michigan first state to ban flavored ecigs

[440BB]

This just showed up while I was having my morning coffee. I am in shock.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...f234c6-ce4c-11e9-8c1c-7c8ee785b855_story.html

I guess the propaganda has worked.

 

[barkfunklerbunk]

Well.. good thing I DIY. What a cruel joke!

 

[The Rebel]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...f234c6-ce4c-11e9-8c1c-7c8ee785b855_story.html

 

[bombastinator]

Well now we get to see how much cigarette sales go up in Michigan. Michigan was also the first state to implement prohibition. Because it’s biggest city is literally across a bridge from Canada it’s less susceptible to problems caused by such things and makes a fairly horrible test model area. If things go as they have before because people who don’t like the ban go out of area for their stuff there will be fewer negative issues and it will be used as evidence that fewer negative issues exist and (therefore inaccurate) data from Michigan will be used as evidence to roll out something nation wide.

The thing to look at will be how much sales go up just outside of the area, including in this case canada

 

[Rossum]

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/michigan-first-state-to-ban-flavored-ecigs.919693/

 

[AttyPops]

Modified cross-post from here and the snails thread.

Flavor bans won't work, IMHO. May cause more problems if kids flavor it with non-standard flavorings. Vanilla Extract here we go. Groan.

But getting them used to tobacco is apparently OK.

Whitmer’s move applies to retail and online sales of vaping products that use sweet and fruity flavors as well as mint and menthol ones. It does not cover tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes.

Note for you former/current menthol smokers, that's banned here now too.

I usually vape unflavored anyway, so I don't mind it as much. I also DIY.

But, I can't look at it selfishly. I mean, flavorings and DIY gave me something to mess with while I was getting off cigs.

 

[Izan]

The lawsuits should be interesting....

My condolences to our vaping brothers and sisters caught up in the hysteria.


Cheers
I

 

[AttyPops]

Michigan was also the first state to implement prohibition.

Prohibition helped build Detroit... (As I think you're implying)

If things go as they have before because people who don’t like the ban go out of area for their stuff there will be fewer negative issues and it will be used as evidence that fewer negative issues exist and (therefore inaccurate) data from Michigan will be used as evidence to roll out something nation wide.

IDK, I think they'll likely just buy flavoring online or worse use the wrong off-the-shelf stuff. But with all these "carts" these days, who knows?

Grrrrr.

 

[DaveP]

I still don't get why carding purchasers isn't an option. Sure, there are fake ID's and teenagers who look 21, but you don't hear the same cry going out about under age alcohol purchases. I also don't hear threats of Tobacco Cigarette bans.

Vaping for teens is obviously the new way to deliver other banned substances. I can see, as AttyPops mentioned, the use of things that we know are bad when vaped, but uninformed teens will use to deliver whatever it is they want to inhale.

 

[AttyPops]

I still don't get why carding purchasers isn't an option.

It's already carded.

What age did you start smoking?

 

[rosesense]

I still don't get why carding purchasers isn't an option. Sure, there are fake ID's and teenagers who look 21, but you don't hear the same cry going out about under age alcohol purchases. I also don't hear threats of Tobacco Cigarette bans.

It appears to me that it isn't about health and saving teens or any of that. It is about power and money, period. Those with the money/power to influence win.

 

[DaveP]

It's already carded.

What age did you start smoking?

I started dabbling with cigarettes in the 9th grade. We'd chip in to buy a pack and split it up. At no time did we ever think about adding in other chemicals. We were happy with the buzz that a shared Marlboro Red provided. That, and the "cool" factor for young teens wanting to appear older and more sophisticated.

 

[AttyPops]

It appears to me that it isn't about health and saving teens or any of that. It is about power and money, period. Those with the money/power to influence win.

Maybe. But I don't think Whitmer is in BT's pockets. A Dem, she falls in the "naive regulate it all for safety" category. As compared to "let the free market [big money] work it out" category on the right. I suspect she's a never/non-smoker too and can't relate.

That's, of course, just my How much lobbying is involved here IDK.

She's also having a hard time getting anything effective done with the Republican controlled legislature. So when she gets an opportunity to do something she views as effective on her own, she grabs it. She got elected, in part, on a "fix the damn roads" campaign. She needs a gas tax. She's been stalled 100% by the legislature. Etc. Etc. Partisan, partisan.

Any port in a pseudo-storm. Wish she'd have remained cool about this one. But it uses her Emergency Powers, and is reviewed/renewed 6 months from now. So until they can draft perm legislation, this is a temporary measure.

Again,

 

[AttyPops]

I started dabbling with cigarettes in the 9th grade. We'd chip in to buy a pack and split it up. At no time did we ever think about adding in other chemicals. We were happy with the buzz that a shared Marlboro Red provided.

So carding probably didn't work well (they had vending machines back then, I assume. ) but it still doesn't work 100%.

 

[rosesense]

Maybe. But I don't think Whitmer is in BT's pockets. A Dem, she falls on the "naive regulate it all for safety" category. As compared to "let the free market [big money] work it out" category on the right. I suspect she's a never/non-smoker too and can't relate.

That's, of course, just my How much lobbying is involved here IDK.

She's also having a hard time getting anything effective done with the Republican controlled legislature. So when she gets an opportunity to do something she views as effective on her own, she grabs it. She got elected, in part, on a "fix the damn roads" campaign. She needs a gas tax. She's been stalled 100% by the legislature. Etc. Etc. Partisan, partisan.

Any port in a pseudo-storm. Wish she'd have remained cool about this one. But it uses her Emergency Powers, and is reviewed/renewed 6 months from now. So until they can draft perm legislation, this is a temporary measure.

Again,

Having seen first hand in my career how politicians are influenced by power and money even to the safety risks/detriment of children, I just can't share your optimism about them.

 

[DaveP]

So carding probably didn't work well (they had vending machines back then, I assume. ) but it still doesn't work 100%.

Vending machines were everywhere. Cigarettes were a Quarter a pack back then. Later, the price was raised to 35 cents. B y the time I started vaping smokes had succumbed to inflation and I was paying about $36 a carton. I needed to quit smoking and vaping was also a cheaper alternative with an obvious safety factor over burning tobacco.

It's too bad that smoking teens are ruining the reputation of vaping by adding illegal substances. The history of experimentation by teens continues.

 

[DeloresRose]

So carding probably didn't work well (they had vending machines back then, I assume. ) but it still doesn't work 100%.

Carding only works if cashiers use it. Same with alcohol. There were a lot of sting operations and a lot of shops got popped selling alcohol and smokes to underaged people. They’ve been a lot more cautious since then.

They no longer just look at the ID, if they have any reason to find it suspect, they can deny you.

And in my area everyone knows everyone so they know if you’re of age or not. And they still card.

Only the ignorant public is falling for this save the children BS.

Shops are being held accountable. Parents need to be held accountable as well. Why do they act like they have zero culpability? Catch the little ding dongs vaping, fine their idiot parents, and put the little turds in juvie. Stop punishing everyone who is not to blame.

 

[puffon]

Kids are not vaping for the flavors.
"They are vaping for the nic buzz they get from the Juul."
Quoted from my 15 yr old grandson....

 

[440BB]

Sadly, we vapers are low hanging fruit politically. This may be the beginning of a number of states following suit, even if it is a short term ban. Public opinion has been manipulated to the point that they would be widely supported. While we watch the FDA grind this out, local bans can effectively cripple availability to smokers much sooner.

 

[DaveP]

Carding only works if cashiers use it. Same with alcohol. There were a lot of sting operations and a lot of shops got popped selling alcohol and smokes to underaged people. They’ve been a lot more cautious since then.

They no longer just look at the ID, if they have any reason to find it suspect, they can deny you.

And in my area everyone knows everyone so they know if you’re of age or not. And they still card.

Only the ignorant public is falling for this save the children BS.

Shops are being held accountable. Parents need to be held accountable as well. Why do they act like they have zero culpability? Catch the little ding dongs vaping, fine their idiot parents, and put the little turds in juvie. Stop punishing everyone who is not to blame.

Carding only works well when the accepted ID is forgery proof. it's easy for teens to craft a suitable ID these days. Templates are likely available on the internet for any state. Lamination isn't that hard to do, either.

Holograms are the key for detecting fake IDs.