Mik!! We want a Janty e-pipe!!!!

[TreverT]

I dunno. I guess it is an unfilled niche. If anyone could do it right, it'd be Janty and Joye. I've seen maybe 1 or 2 pipe users in my lifetime. When the eGo first came out, I didn't like the almost cigar size, and was almost reminded of the plumbing mods, but it turned out awesome. We'll see.

I've been a pipe smoker all my life. I know hundreds of others, too. Never even smoked a cigarette, and not much interested in cigars. We're out here, we're just a lot more subtle and private than cig smokers. We want different things from our smoking, which was my point in that post about how an epipe really has to satisfy a different set of needs than an ecig. So far all the epipes I've seen have been cheapo, throw-away devices designed to appeal to cig smokers, not pipe smokers. We'll see - Got my fingers crossed, at least.

** There seem to be a LOT of posters on here from NC!

 

[franklyspeaking]

I'd much rather use a nice pipe form factor than a flashlight mod, which all big battery mods are descended from, but maybe I'm in the minority...

I can't wait.

 

[Fenix-T]

I've been thinking about this some. How cool would it be if you drip in the bowl. If this been brought up in the past pages, apologies.

***Of course, tobacco state.

 

[franklyspeaking]

It would be cool... I think if someone invests as much time, attention, energy and money into the pipe form that people have invested in box mods, the pipe will be a winner for sure. It might take a few iterations to get everything just right but I it is a form factor worth exploring and supporting. By design it offers plenty of space to accommodate a lot of functionality in an ergonomic form.

 

[Jason_in_nc]

I've been thinking about this some. How cool would it be if you drip in the bowl. If this been brought up in the past pages, apologies.

***Of course, tobacco state.

I want a pipe so I can get away from dripping...

plus, that sounds like a good way to get a mouth full of juice!

 

[Twan013]

Wow, finally started making good money, and forgot all about waiting for the pipe. I started focusing on finding something to use until then. I haven't checked this thread in about 2 pages!

 

[RBommer]

I’m waiting on this pipe as well. I didn’t find this thread in time to have any input on it’s design, however. I wish I had. I want it to be a success, so I just hope Janty did market research before deciding on the design, because the design, I think, will be the key to rather Fenix or Tinstar are right.

The market for ecigs is probably the same as any other market and can be split into groups: age, male, female, income, etc. Each group will then have divisions. It’s the groups and their divisions that a company needs to now in order to identify their target market before investing in a project.

While only market research can determine what groups exist and where the divisions inside those groups are for electronic cigs, let’s just assume there are three age groups to make my point: Under 35/ 35-55/ and over 55. This and what follows are just assumptions to make a point.

Research might determine the following about these groups:

Under 35 Group:
--- It is the largest active vaping group (They know or knew this stuff was around before everyone else; and word spreads fast among them).
--- They would vape a stainless-steel Air Jordan with a straw coming from it—in other words, they are not only open to anything new and unique (from slightly different to drastically different), they relish it.
--- They are also very comfortable with complexity
--- They are the poorest of the three groups, and will choose complicated but cheap over simple but expensive.
--- Most of what is new on the market is targeted at this group.

The 35 to 55 Group:
--- There are fewer active vapers in this group than in the younger group, but it is the fastest growing group.
--- They like choice: If given a choice, its members would prefer something traditional (cigarette like, pipe like, cigar like) on a day-to-day basis, but now and then they want something new and unique.
--- Not as open to the drastically different, but will adapt to something slightly different if it performed better.
--- When it comes to complexity, they can handle it if they must, but would prefer for it to be simple and maintenance free.
--- They have money and are open to simple but more expensive.

The 55 and Over Group
--- Number of active vapers is very small, but it has the largest number of potential vapers (think Baby Boomers). They simply don’t know this stuff exists. It’s a vast, untapped market.
--- Many, however, in this group who don’t know about vaping wouldn’t vape even if they knew about it until it is FDA approved.
--- Those that would, are the least open to change. They want it to look, feel and perform like a traditional cigarette, pipe or cigar. Period.
--- Simplicity is a must.
--- The ideal unit for them would be an FDA-approved 3.7v, 1000 mah mini-automatic battery with a 1000-puff cartomizer.

Once a company has this data, the design decisions become easier. Choose the group you’re targeting and you will know the answers to such questions as: Should we sacrifice performance for simplicity, or simplicity for performance? Should it look like a Billiard-type pipe, a Porsche 908 Pd tobacco pipe, a Fipa or a Purisme? How much should it cost?

Without this information, you may end up with something no one wants: a simple but expensive Fipa-syle pipe would appeal to the young, but be out of their economic reach; older vapers could afford it, but would not like the design. The young could afford and maintain a cheap, but comlex Billiard-style pipe, but would not like the design; the over 55s would like the design, but couldn’t handle the complexity. On and on it goes. This is why companies do market research.

Personally, I’ve moved on to the eGo/Riva stuff after trying to stay traditional with the Greencig g300; Kr808; and dse601. In the end, I chose function over form. But if Janty comes out with an epipe that looks like a black Porsche 908 Pd tobacco pipe, vapes like a dse601, and is as simple and reliable as an eGo, It will definitely find its way into my routine.

 

[chr1s234]

Very well put. I hope you are in marketing, because that's where you belong lol.

 

[Twan013]

chr1s, your avatar is horrible and offensive, true as it may be....


HAHAHAHAHA

 

[Jason_in_nc]

I agree with the approach RBommer, even if I don't neccessarily agree with all the assumptions you made. But that's a good start!

I'm 37 now, but have been smoking cigars and pipes since I was 17. I was the nerd smoking a pipe in my dorm room.

I finally got my hands on an automatic ego battery and am finally happy cause it's the closest I've gotten to a cigar. Now if I can just get a good pipe!

 

[RBommer]

Very well put. I hope you are in marketing, because that's where you belong lol.

No, I’m not in advertising-- too much of an idealist. I’ll take it as a compliment, however. I can understand what they do and why they do it, just have no interest in doing it myself. I do suffer from an uncontrollable urge to analyze things.

I agree with the approach RBommer, even if I don't neccessarily agree with all the assumptions you made. But that's a good start!

I'm 37 now, but have been smoking cigars and pipes since I was 17. I was the nerd smoking a pipe in my dorm room.

I finally got my hands on an automatic ego battery and am finally happy cause it's the closest I've gotten to a cigar. Now if I can just get a good pipe!

No need to agree with the assumptions, they are just assumptions to make a point. But, even if the market research was done and they concluded my assumptions were spot on, it would, like all data of a group of people, be an average: there will always be outliers: I’m sure there is a 65-year-old woman out there who would vape a stainless-steel Air Jordan in the middle of a Starbucks with complete pride.

I’m 41, so I would prefer vaping gear that was more traditional or classical looking. But, I am willing to go with things that are slightly different and more complex if it performs better or is more convenient. It’s for practical reasons that I switched to an eGo/Riva; I do still carry a Joye 510 for backup and social situations where I want to blend into the smoking crowed-- but it’s now a manual button 510, even though I like the autos better-- the manual just performs better than the auto.

I had been vaping the dse601 pipe for just over a month. It was my last stand to stay classical. When I got it I had heard of some of its problems: needing to drain it every night; and difficulty removing the battery cover. I thought at the time: “What silly gripes. How hard can it be to remove a battery cover.” I was right in a way: I was easily able to avoid the battery cover issue. But I found I was wrong, as well, when I tried to convert my 77-year-old dad to vaping. The battery cover turned out to be a real deal breaker.

It’s what made me realize the importance of knowing your market. To me the appearance of the dse601 design obviously appeals more to an older crowed-- rather they “meant” it to or not. (At 41, I wasn’t crazy about the look and would have preferred if it was just black). Knowing that as a designer, how could you let the hard-to-remove battery cover go to market? I really doubt they did much research or thought much about it. A difficult-to-remove cover on a device geared toward 22-year-olds would be griped about, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker.

I have a feeling very little thought is put into much of this stuff. I’ve always been miffed by sites that have very limited Joye 510 battery choices, yet choose to stock: a titanium-colored automatic battery with a red LED, and a white, manual battery with a blue LED. What? To me it’s obvious that if you can only offer two choices, it should be: titanium manual battery with a blue LED, and white, auto battery with a red LED. But maybe I’m crazy.

I, too, think my eGo/Riva, looks like a cigar. So much so, I wish they’d make one painted like a cigar with a red LED end. I’d buy that, too. (Throw in a worry-free auto battery version, and I might even be able to sell my dad on it.)

 

[Jason_in_nc]

FINALLY, someone completely gets it!

I agree with that post completely. I've never understood the stocking choices either and don't know how many times I've thought the same things about 510 and other batteries.

I've asked in this forum, in other forums, and of various suppliers, to have the ego in some sort of cigar pattern, or just a nice deep brown color, with the end of the battery just being natural aluminum instead of chrome. I'm not even asking for a re-design of the LED. Just a re-deco. I don't understand why companies will spend the money to make these in pink and red, but not the obvious cigar colors. I understand that the pink and red are intended to appeal to women, but don't cigars appeal to men? Aren't cigar smokers part of the e-cig market?

In any case, nobody seems to believe there is a market for this simple and obvious re-deco.

Part of the problem is that the e-cig "community" can't decide what it wants to be or how it wants to present itself. At first, the idea was that these products should look like the real thing to help people quit or switch, but at the same time they were promoted to be used in places that real cigs could not. So companies started making cigs that were somehow unrealistic, while still providing a realistic feel. So we got multicolored LEDs, and different colored hardware and so on.

The problem is that it then becomes a gimmicky fad... appealing to club-goers and teens... NOT the intended market. Not to mention that even though they contain no tobacco or flame, they realistically are still limited to most of the same situations as analogs since they cause confusion for non-vapers.

I'm of the mind now that whenever possible, all vaping devices should be designed to look as much like the real thing as possible. Sure, there will always be room for cool, non-traditional designs and of course those designs that are focused purely on function instead of form. But for most devices, they really SHOULD look as much like their analog counterparts as possible. It's better for the user as less attention is drawn, and it's better for future customers as it would be an easier sell. If my first exposure to ecigs had been one of these plumbing-looking tube mods... I wouldn't be vaping today.

 

[TreverT]

It’s what made me realize the importance of knowing your market. To me the appearance of the dse601 design obviously appeals more to an older crowed-- rather they “meant” it to or not. (At 41, I wasn’t crazy about the look and would have preferred if it was just black).

Actually it doesn't. As a lifelong pipe smoker/collector, the first reaction I had to the 601 was to think how incredibly cheap it looked compared to a real pipe. The thing is rosewood, for starters, instead of briar, and that by itself says "$12 basket pipe" at best. The stem is really poorly molded compared to most halfway decent pipe stems. Basically, it looks like a poor attempt to copy a real pipe by someone who really didn't have much experience with real pipes. The fact that you're expected to throw away the entire bowl to change the atomizer that dies every month, was just the icing on the cake of crappy.

I also went to an eGo, and that's mostly what I smoke now, along with a 901. It's fun and I enjoy the practicality of it, but it is a bit boring, I must admit. I'd rather have a really good quality epipe, something that is attractive to look at and shows a little craftsmanship. I have around fifty traditional tobacco pipes in my collection, in a wide range of shapes, sizes, and types (briar, clay, meer), and I'd love to have a good epipe to go in their midst. To a large extent, the tobacco pipes just point up the gaping holes in the epipe market, because from those, I can choose what shape I like best for whatever the circumstance (Fine old clays for classic horror movies, meerschaums for tobacco blends that suit them, and so on). With epipes, I currently have a choice of 3 badly made, mass produced models that have none of the individualistic charm of a handmade pipe. I found my epipe *incredibly* handy and enjoyable for the month that it lived, but a nice pipe needs to offer something in the way of individualism and craftsmanship, not just plastic practicality, to really win over the dedicated pipe smoking market. As buyers, we're the exact opposite of the folks who will happily smoke out of a Radio Shack plastic battery pack, as long as they get their nicotine hit.

 

[ournature]

I second that, i would buy an ego cigar-like instead of other colors.
Preferable in a configuration with the cylindrical mega atty.

 

[RBommer]

FINALLY, someone completely gets it!

I agree with that post completely. I've never understood the stocking choices either and don't know how many times I've thought the same things about 510 and other batteries.

I've asked in this forum, in other forums, and of various suppliers, to have the ego in some sort of cigar pattern, or just a nice deep brown color, with the end of the battery just being natural aluminum instead of chrome. I'm not even asking for a re-design of the LED. Just a re-deco. I don't understand why companies will spend the money to make these in pink and red, but not the obvious cigar colors. I understand that the pink and red are intended to appeal to women, but don't cigars appeal to men? Aren't cigar smokers part of the e-cig market?

In any case, nobody seems to believe there is a market for this simple and obvious re-deco.

Part of the problem is that the e-cig "community" can't decide what it wants to be or how it wants to present itself. At first, the idea was that these products should look like the real thing to help people quit or switch, but at the same time they were promoted to be used in places that real cigs could not. So companies started making cigs that were somehow unrealistic, while still providing a realistic feel. So we got multicolored LEDs, and different colored hardware and so on.

The problem is that it then becomes a gimmicky fad... appealing to club-goers and teens... NOT the intended market. Not to mention that even though they contain no tobacco or flame, they realistically are still limited to most of the same situations as analogs since they cause confusion for non-vapers.

I'm of the mind now that whenever possible, all vaping devices should be designed to look as much like the real thing as possible. Sure, there will always be room for cool, non-traditional designs and of course those designs that are focused purely on function instead of form. But for most devices, they really SHOULD look as much like their analog counterparts as possible. It's better for the user as less attention is drawn, and it's better for future customers as it would be an easier sell. If my first exposure to ecigs had been one of these plumbing-looking tube mods... I wouldn't be vaping today.

Jason, I think we are in the same demographic. I’ve even tried to find a cigar-like “skin” or “wrap,” with no luck. I can’t see how the people who make those wouldn’t want to throw one out there just to see how it does-- wouldn’t cost anymore than any other design to make.

I think the market is driven by the more “liberal” crowed right now-- I don't mean "political" liberal, I mean liberal tastes or style: people who want new, unique stuff. My opinion is that is because most vapers are young. I don’t mind all the crazy finishes and LED colors: free market at its best.

My gripe is with what seems to be a total lack of thought that goes into some of their design choices.

My guess is that the companies involved are as immature as the devices and the market itself. Most of them are small startups at best, and many are “mom and pop” garage affairs. They just don’t think big like the heavy hitters. To them, success is making a profit. To a successful company, success is failure if you missed out on an opportunity to make even more for less.

Again, I see it in all the little things they do. The dse601 pipe is an example of poor thinking. Nothing about it is consistent: as if the designers didn’t have a clear image of their target market. Its looks definitely don’t say “youth” to me; It doesn’t even say middle aged to me. It says grandpa to me. Yet it’s operation excludes grandpa. And while its operation complexity (draining and DIY cleaning) is in the skill set of the young, its cost (buying a $30 atty every month or two), excludes them. The middle-aged can afford it and handle the complexity, but ,again, they’d probably prefer something more modern looking and simpler to operate. So who the hell were they making this thing for?

Another example is the eGo/Riva batteries with the LEDs on the end (eGo-n, eCo, etc.) They make an eGo/Riva with an LED on the end, but only offer it in platinum, white, black. It doesn’t sell so they say: LED on end no good. If you were to tell them how they missed the mark by putting an LED on the end of a device that looks nothing like a classical smoking device, they would probably counter by putting a blue LED on the end of cigar-looking eGo and Riva. When it doesn’t sell, they would say: See, we were right, didn’t sell; LED on end, bad.

If I were the maker of the Joye 510, I’d save a lot of production cost by manufacturing all white batteries with red or no LEDs. Logic tells me that most people buying a white battery are looking to mimic a real cig. Anyone who wants a purple or blue LED, probably also wants a rainbow swirl battery (or, at worst, won’t mind it).

Target the averages, and be consistent in your designs.

As awareness about vaping grows, it will be a chicken and egg thing: companies don’t make stuff for the older crowed because not enough of them vape, but a lot of older people don’t vape because no one makes stuff they want to vape.

I’m in a sort of vaper holding pattern right now. In the beginning, I didn’t want to quit smoking, I just wanted to “replace” smoking with vaping. Now, I vape so I don’t smoke. I’ll use whatever works for that. I tend to stealth vape a lot since I’m not completely comfortable with what the stuff looks like. Most of my acquaintances (coworkers, strangers, etc.) think I’ve simply quit smoking. I only vape alone, or in front of family and friends. If I had stuff that fit my personality better, I’d be completely open about it.

 

[RBommer]

Actually it doesn't. As a lifelong pipe smoker/collector, the first reaction I had to the 601 was to think how incredibly cheap it looked compared to a real pipe. The thing is rosewood, for starters, instead of briar, and that by itself says "$12 basket pipe" at best. The stem is really poorly molded compared to most halfway decent pipe stems. Basically, it looks like a poor attempt to copy a real pipe by someone who really didn't have much experience with real pipes. The fact that you're expected to throw away the entire bowl to change the atomizer that dies every month, was just the icing on the cake of crappy.

I also went to an eGo, and that's mostly what I smoke now, along with a 901. It's fun and I enjoy the practicality of it, but it is a bit boring, I must admit. I'd rather have a really good quality epipe, something that is attractive to look at and shows a little craftsmanship. I have around fifty traditional tobacco pipes in my collection, in a wide range of shapes, sizes, and types (briar, clay, meer), and I'd love to have a good epipe to go in their midst. To a large extent, the tobacco pipes just point up the gaping holes in the epipe market, because from those, I can choose what shape I like best for whatever the circumstance (Fine old clays for classic horror movies, meerschaums for tobacco blends that suit them, and so on). With epipes, I currently have a choice of 3 badly made, mass produced models that have none of the individualistic charm of a handmade pipe. I found my epipe *incredibly* handy and enjoyable for the month that it lived, but a nice pipe needs to offer something in the way of individualism and craftsmanship, not just plastic practicality, to really win over the dedicated pipe smoking market. As buyers, we're the exact opposite of the folks who will happily smoke out of a Radio Shack plastic battery pack, as long as they get their nicotine hit.

Hay Trever,
My goal wasn’t to define the tastes of any group of people, or to say I know this is what people of this age or that age, want. I was “making up” groups and their characteristics as examples to identify what I think are bad design choices by a lot of ecig makers. "Bad" in that the designs are inconsistent with any group of potential consumers. (I chose age because it’s a common demographic; the characteristics I assigned to it were made up examples)

If I use you as an example, I doubt age would be a defining characteristic. I think pipe aficionado would probably fit better. I would think a company setting out to design an epipe for a market of pipe aficionados, would ask: What characteristics should it have to appeal to this group? Then do market research to find out. The answers might be that they want:

-- stuff that looks authentic
-- that doesn’t look cheep
-- lots of choices in pipe bodies
-- like to collect the bodies, so want them to last
-- are willing to pay top dollar for the bodies if done well

If that were the case, they would set out to design something that fits that. Should the battery be manual or automatic? Manual, of course, since longevity is an issue. They should definitely make the atty removable so it can be cleaned or replaced. Etc., etc.

Knowing my target market would tell me what to make; knowing what to make would tell me what it will cost to make; Market research would tell me if it will sell at that cost.

I wouldn't be in that market: I'm not a pipe aficionado. I went to using an epipe as a last resort to have something traditional looking when I realized the technology for a practical super-mini ecig just wasn't there yet. I ultimately quit using the 601 as a day-to-day vape because it was too cumbersome to carry around. (Especially carrying two since you need a backup!) The eGo/Riva works for that. (I am, however, currently stuck with five dse601 pipes I bought in bulk before I realized I wasn't happy using them. )

 

[RBommer]

I second that, i would buy an ego cigar-like instead of other colors.
Preferable in a configuration with the cylindrical mega atty.

Well, if they don't make one, I guess we could always paint one:

Maybe we should start a poll to see how many people would be interested.

 

[TreverT]

If I use you as an example, I doubt age would be a defining characteristic. I think pipe aficionado would probably fit better. I would think a company setting out to design an epipe for a market of pipe aficionados, would ask: What characteristics should it have to appeal to this group? Then do market research to find out. The answers might be that they want:

-- stuff that looks authentic
-- that doesn’t look cheep
-- lots of choices in pipe bodies
-- like to collect the bodies, so want them to last
-- are willing to pay top dollar for the bodies if done well

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. FWIW, I've been a professional fulltime carver of tobacco pipes for over 12 years now, so I've got a reasonably good handle on the pipe market. That's what I was harping on in an earlier post in this thread - So far, all the epipes I have seen have been designed and marketed for cig smokers, not pipe smokers, and there's a big difference. One is looking for something cheap and disposable that will deliver their nicotine hit, the other wants to buy a small piece of handmade craftsmanship to have as a lifelong companion. Things like the 601 are an attempt by people with the "cheap and disposable" mentality to make something cheap and disposable and sell it to the cheap and disposable market, which seems to me to be very bad marketing, because people looking for a max-practical quick hit are much better suited with ecig-style devices. Why try and sell them something that is essentially a much bigger, heavier, and more awkward form of ecig? The pipe is an entirely different form factor with different strengths, for a different group of buyers.

I wouldn't be in that market: I'm not a pipe aficionado. I went to using an epipe as a last resort to have something traditional looking when I realized the technology for a practical super-mini ecig just wasn't there yet. I ultimately quit using the 601 as a day-to-day vape because it was too cumbersome to carry around. (Especially carrying two since you need a backup!) The eGo/Riva works for that. (I am, however, currently stuck with five dse601 pipes I bought in bulk before I realized I wasn't happy using them. )

Yep, pipes have never been the handiest things to carry. The 601s compound the problem in that they weight over twice what a typical tobacco pipe does, making them VERY unwieldy shirt pocket companions. Even though I'm a lifelong pipe smoker, these days when I go to the tobacco shop, I take my eGo instead of a pipe, because it's so convenient (eGo+tiny juice bottle=ideal, compared to pipe, tin/bag of pipe tobacco, tamper and lighter). What the pipe form factor excels at is offering a really attractive thing to smoke from for an extended period of time. Trying to smoke the eGo during an evening's reading or movie watching, for example, is frustrating - It's enjoyable, but brief, and before you know it, you're out of juice and need to refill the thing (Whereas one full briar pipe, or two at most, is enough to last me through a whole movie). Also, it's a piece of plumbing, every part of which needs to be replaced eventually, so it totally lacks that "comfort food" friendly feeling of a briar pipe that I've had for 20 years. To me, permanence and juice capacity are two of the biggest crucial issues for a good epipe - I don't mind replacing the battery when it dies, or the atomizers, but make the pipe body a thing unto itself that will last through thick and thin.

I think if I were to boil it down, ecigs are made for people who want something to puff intermittently, on the go, max convenience, low price, etc. Pipes, by contrast, appeal because they actually *force* you to sit still and relax for an hour, and interact with a handmade thing, and that's what pipe smokers appreciate about them. To me, this is the foundational difference between the markets and until an epipe maker recognizes this and designs accordingly, they're just going to be making awkwardly shaped ecigs and trying to sell them to a buying market that doesn't know how to appreciate them.

** I should probably point out that I don't mean to denigrate the prefs of either market - I enjoy my eGo and 901 FOR their practically and convenience, just as I love my briar pipes for their character and permanence. I would love to have an epipe that satisfied my pipe-ish prefs, but unfortunately there's no such thing on the market, yet.

 

[Jason_in_nc]

Well, if they don't make one, I guess we could always paint one:

Maybe we should start a poll to see how many people would be interested.

See how easy that would be to produce? Even without the LED, just leave the end cap as raw aluminum (which looks a little like ash) and I think even that would suffice for most. To take it to the next level, design the area around the button to look more like the wrapper on a cigar. Matt in color with the button in the middle of the "logo".

Done. It would be the hightest-selling ecigar on the market. Currently, Rush Limbaugh is using Volcano's which, for a cigar smoker, doesn't really cut it. Imagine if an ego were made to look like your image, and were sent to him? Sales would go through the roof.

I AM a sales/ marketing guy and you're completely on point.

 

[RBommer]

See how easy that would be to produce? Even without the LED, just leave the end cap as raw aluminum (which looks a little like ash) and I think even that would suffice for most. To take it to the next level, design the area around the button to look more like the wrapper on a cigar. Matt in color with the button in the middle of the "logo".

Done. It would be the hightest-selling ecigar on the market. Currently, Rush Limbaugh is using Volcano's which, for a cigar smoker, doesn't really cut it. Imagine if an ego were made to look like your image, and were sent to him? Sales would go through the roof.

I AM a sales/ marketing guy and you're completely on point.

I personally would want the LED-- this would be for my smoking in public or social smoking type thing. I don't mind my black, button-LED eGo/Riva when I'm at my desk at work or at home. It wouldn't be a new design, however, since they already have LED-end eGo's (the eGo-n, but I can't find them in the States). The Riva also sales one (Nhaler has them). I can't find anyone who sells just the battery though, have to get the kits. Cigar bands would be a nice touch, but not necessary since it would be real easy to get a sticker and put over the button ring. They also have "brown" cartridges if you don't like the black or white ones.

I'd be happy if someone would just make a skin or wrap. Might even be better (if it sticks and stays) since you might be able to get a rough, dull texture like a tobacco leaf.

In the end I planned to make one myself eventually. I was debating between painting it or having a wrap made at one of those sites where you upload a photo and they'll make a protective vinyl wrap for your laptop or cell phone. I was just waiting to find a red-LED, auto battery.

Which reminds me, Jason, I meant to ask how you like your auto eGo battery? Any cutoff? Any worries of juice leaking into the battery? I only have manuals because I got tiered of the cutoff and leaking when I was using auto Greencigs and Kr8's.