Mixing By Weight: Basics 101

[Kenna]

So this scale is giving instant results? I have the scale that capt has on his first page.


And it takes a few seconds to catch up to measure the drops.

That's the one I got. It does have a bit of lag, but like Capt said, you learn when to pause.

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[mhertz]

My scale is sold-out from the china store I got it, but here's a pic to maybe find it locally:

2.4" LCD Portable Jewelry Digital Pocket Scale - 500g/0.01g (2xAAA):
http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_72562_1.jpg

(The pic shows "0.0" and no light-up in display, so the vendor messed up the pic of version slightly wrong, but looks identical otherwise)

I got it because of good reviews on the site, where it was checked for accuracy by a customer with coins too x 10. It looks alittle stupid honestly, but it's accurate, pretty fast and best, needs no tricks of nickels or whatever for small amounts. I think I paid 9 bucks lol or less, with free shipping and cells, and it has worked now for two years without ever doing calibration on it, or changing cells(there are 2 cells in it), and I regularly check for accuracy/repeatebility with 10 x coin checks. It's 500/0.01g and the big display light up when in use in bright blue to easy see the numbers. It has 1 or 2 minute cutoff, but that's a non-issue unless taking phone-calls halfway between the SAME ingredient: Pressing TARE or ON for next ingredient is irrelevant. Big 1 Liter bottles can still be placed on it fine(just did yesterday, where I mixed 1L premix to go in fridge, which is my ADV, though the VG needs topping off the bottle without using the scale for that, as 500g isn't enough for 1L obviously, but doesn't matter to me, and my 2000g scale sucks compared to this one).

 

[DaveP]

One of the easy ways to DIY is to mix up a large batch of unflavored (as some have said already) and just use a syringe to transfer a small amount to bottles and then add the flavor.

I only mix once a month or so. I do a few bottles of my favorites and a couple of 100ml bottles of unflavored. It's nice to have ready mixed base for creating small batches of juice flavors I just happen to crave at the moment and not have to drag out the scales and set everything up again.

 

[bwh79]

Seems like that would be a deal breaker.

This is the only scale I've used but I suspect that others do something similar, as well. Supposedly it's a "feature, not a bug," and to explain it I'll just quote bussdriver's excellent post from another thread:

Scales will have a function built-in called 'auto-zero'. The scale will automatically zero off very small weight changes if they occur around the zero point. This keeps the scale from changing/drifting due to temperature, compensates for small zero changes in the load sensor, and for small amounts of material that may drop on the weighing platform. This auto-zeroing function only occurs within a division or two of the zero point, and disables itself when the weight on the scale goes outside this 'window'. That's why it doesn't occur after weight has already been applied.

While this may be seen by some as a minor inconvenience, it's hardly a deal-breaker. All you have to do is either lift the container off the scale while you add the first few drops, or put a finger or a small object on the scale while you add the first few drops, or add those first few drops in quick succession so the scale does not "settle" in between them and invoke the auto-zero feature. Once a weight of more than two or three drops is registered, the scale will work perfectly even for single, additional drops after that point. I don't know how else to describe this "feature," but some people are either REEALLLY picky about it, or continually fail to understand how trivial it really is, even after multiple explanations.

 

[DaveP]

While this may be seen by some as a minor inconvenience, it's hardly a deal-breaker. All you have to do is either lift the container off the scale while you add the first few drops, or put a finger or a small object on the scale while you add the first few drops, or add those first few drops in quick succession so the scale does not "settle" in between them and invoke the auto-zero feature. Once a weight of more than two or three drops is registered, the scale will work perfectly even for single, additional drops after that point. I don't know how else to describe this "feature," but some people are either REEALLLY picky about it, or continually fail to understand how trivial it really is, even after multiple explanations.

I try to be accurate, but I seldom finish a pour exactly on the money. Anticipating the lag time for the last few drops to register is usually a losing proposition. Sometimes, I'm lucky and finish within a few hundreths. If I'm a tenth over on PG or VG I don't worry about it.

It's the ketchup style bottles for PG and VG that are hard to predict. Flavor bottles and nic from droppers or pipettes are easier.

 

[bwh79]

I try to be accurate, but I seldom finish a pour exactly on the money. Anticipating the lag time for the last few drops to register is usually a losing proposition. Sometimes, I'm lucky and finish within a few hundreths. If I'm a tenth over on PG or VG I don't worry about it.

It's the ketchup style bottles for PG and VG that are hard to predict. Flavor bottles and nic from droppers or pipettes are easier.

I was talking about the first few drops at the start of a pour, but yeah, those last few can be tricky, too. I actually do keep some PG and VG in little 50ml bottles with the pointy dropper tips too, so sometimes I'll fill it up 90% or so with the big condiment bottle and then top it off with the more precise little tiny one.

 

[mhertz]

Not all scales have this "feature", i've had several(1 in 4 had)... It's a minor inconvinience, sure, but if I was going scale hunting, and I could get one which didn't had this "feature", then I would surely avoid it. Just me, personally though... Unfortunetly I cannot recommend a US model that works without this, as I have never used US scales, sorry(because of shipping cost and customs)...

If it's a better scale than the others, then sure too, I could easilly live with it of course...

Edit: Little bad wording above, lol...

 

[bussdriver]

Here is another thing with scales you can easily test to determine the quality of the weight sensor. Using a weight of about 25% of capacity, set the weight in the center of the platform; then move the weight around on the platter to each of the four corners. If the weights shown are not within two or three graduations, you can bet the sensor (load cell) is of poor quality or has been damaged.

Use that information as you remove and replace a bottle on the platform. The location of the load on the platform can introduce weighing errors on an inexpensive unit.

 

[ChelsB]

Not sure if this has already been covered but how often do you calibrate your scale?


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[Capt.shay]

Not sure if this has already been covered but how often do you calibrate your scale?

When I find it is off. I test with a known weight every month or two. If it is off, calibrate.

 

[Fozzy71]

Not sure if this has already been covered but how often do you calibrate your scale?


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as needed, which is 0 times since I got it 8 months ago. I check it every month or two with a 100g calibration weight

 

[bussdriver]

Tip for those with no calibration weights:

The accuracy of your scale does not matter in the final mix ratios. When a scale is in error, it errs as a percentage of the applied load. 'Double the weight, double the error'. You may end up with a little more, such as 124 ml as opposed to 120 ml. But, the ratio of flavors, PG and VG should be correct. You can even make your own weight; even though it may be slightly wrong, the percentage of error will always allow the ratio to be correct.

Disclaimer: A non-linear scale is always bad. If the error is 1 gram in 100 grams, it should be 2 grams in 200 grams, 3 grams in 300 grams, etc. If you have + 2 grams at 100 grams (these are example weights), - 4 grams at 200 grams, and -20 grams at 300 grams, then you can just throw the scale away; those kinds of errors are disastrous.

 

[MsLoud]

I'm looking at this scale to buy - 500g x 0.01g High Precision Digital Scale SF-400D2 Counting wit USB Wall Adapter | eBay

Does it come with the weights to calibrate or do I need to buy this set too? 8 pcs calibration weight set 10g 20g 50g 100g 200g 500g -- 1000g total weight | eBay

Is there another way I can calibrate without purchasing the extra weights?
Thanks!

 

[IDJoel]

I'm looking at this scale to buy - 500g x 0.01g High Precision Digital Scale SF-400D2 Counting wit USB Wall Adapter | eBay

Does it come with the weights to calibrate or do I need to buy this set too? 8 pcs calibration weight set 10g 20g 50g 100g 200g 500g -- 1000g total weight | eBay

Is there another way I can calibrate without purchasing the extra weights?
Thanks!

I purchased that scale August 2016 (from that seller too!) and am still using it today. It does have one small idiosyncrasy that you should be aware of. It does have an auto-zero function that people find anywhere from "no big deal" to "deal breaker" and everywhere in between. I happen to be of the "no big deal" opinion.

Auto-zero(ing) simply refers to the scale's hardware trying to compensate for minor (+/- 0.01g fluctuations) when the scale is at zero. What this means for us, as DIYers, is when adding single drops at the beginning of a pour (when the scale has been tared to zero), the scale may not register those individual drops (because it is wanting to remain at zero). This isn't a problem when you pour quickly, but if you are doing small batches, that are only using a few drops in total, it can be problematic.

The easy work-around is to place a temporary weight on the scale after taring. This can be anything that will provide 0.10g or more; so a coin, pen cap, even another concentrate bottle. Anything that will get it beyond the point it tries to go back to zero. Then you can begin your pour/drip, and once you get past the first few hundredths of a gram, you can remove the temporary weight, and continue to pour without fear of it returning to zero. Or, if you take note of what the precise weight of the temporary weight is, you can leave it and just mentally deduct it from the total poured.

My own solution was to use a medium small paper clamp (like this):

to which I added a folded post-it sheet, and left partially protruding, and then trimmed the paper so it weighed exactly 10 grams. That just made any math I have to do in my head is super simple. Plus, when I stand it on one end, the wire loops make perfect handles to lift it off (unlike flat coins that are always refusing to cooperate; and always having odd decimal points). I make a lot of small 10, 5, and even 3mL test batches so it is not at all uncommon for me to use a single ingredient at 0.10g or less. With my 10g cheater weight, I just leave it in place, and perform my pour. Easy!

Here is a separate thread that discusses this and is specific to the SF-400D.
(Note: If you read my posts in that thread; you will see that I was initially disappointed with the scale. Now that I have a good, simple, repeatable remedy, and have spent some time using it, I am much happier with it.)

As for calibrating:
The SF400D only requires (1) 500 gram weight. (Something like one of these: US STOCK 0.5kg 500g Calibration Weight + 5Gram Tester for Digital Scales CQOT602 | eBay) Note that these are NOT certification grade so there will be variances (tolerances) in these (how much will depend on the M grade of the weight).

Or you can go old school:
1 nickel weighs 5 grams(+/-); so 100 nickels will weigh 500 grams(+/-) (My problem with this is I have never found ONE nickel that weighed exactly 5.000 grams. They usually weigh anywhere from 4.7 to 5.4 grams. Add 100 potential variables together and who knows what you really have!)

1mL of water weighs 1mg (1 Liter=1000.028 grams). Of course this is laboratory pure water we are talking about. Tap water has various minerals, chemicals, and ???, and that of course will affect the true weight. How much? I have NO clue. Oh; and don't forget to deduct the weight of the vessel containing the water.

I am sure there are hundreds of others but I think you can see the flaw. Combine this with whatever tolerance the scale was made with and I just don't see the purpose. My scale is 9 months old and has yet to be calibrated ONCE. I do have a 50 gram calibration weight that came with a small 50 gram powder scale, and every time I have checked (every couple of months or so), it has weighed exactly the same (50.02g). Until it starts drifting significantly; I'm not going to worry about it.

I do try to take care of my scale. I keep it in a box, make sure NOTHING ever gets set on top of it unless I am weighing it, NEVER lift it by the weighing platform, never press down on it or place anything that might exceed its 500 gram capacity, and keep it clean. It hasn't let me down yet. In fact; I am still using the battery they sent with it! The AC option is nice, and works just fine, though the cord is a little short (only about 18 inches). So, make sure you have an outlet near by, or an extension cord on hand.

If I ever do feel the need to calibrate it I will seek out someone local, who has access to a certified scale, and test weights, and see if they will allow me to bring it in and calibrate it. Someone, such as a pharmacist, lab (medical, industrial) tech, or jewelry shop/broker.

Sorry to be so long-winded; I just wanted to share the things I wish I knew when I was scale shopping. I am not trying to talk you out of this scale by any means. I have grown rather fond of mine. I only wished I had a more complete understanding of its behavior so I had more realistic expectations.

I hope this helped.

 

[Stewart Jarvis-Grove]

I just want to say thanks to the OP. I've heard of mixing by weight but couldn't imagine an easy way. I've mixed with syringes about a year ago and got bored with the hassle so stopped. Someone recently mentioned they mixed by weight because it's so much easier and i've just stumbled across this thread and can see why now.

 

[Burnie]

do I need to buy this set too? 8 pcs calibration weight set 10g 20g 50g 100g 200g 500g -- 1000g total weight | eBay

I purchased this exact set of weights to calibrate and check my scale. I really like them. I checked all the different weights and some combination of the weights, and my scale was right on the money. Might not really be necessary, but it gave me peace of mind that my scale was accurate.

 

[jpasint]

I just want to say thanks to the OP. I've heard of mixing by weight but couldn't imagine an easy way. I've mixed with syringes about a year ago and got bored with the hassle so stopped. Someone recently mentioned they mixed by weight because it's so much easier and i've just stumbled across this thread and can see why now.

Stewart, your highly confrontational, aggressive and antagonistic statement that mixing by weight is so much easier than mixing by volume should be met with a very stern warning from the moderator.

Just joking of course

But for sure, to spare yourself the agony of being ridiculed, it is imperative that you be sure to begin or end such a statement with "FOR ME", less you be accused of making a personal opinion sound like a statement of fact that pertains to everyone reading your post.

I totally agree with your observations and I could never voluntarily go back to mixing with syringes.

So glad that Capt.shay's thread became a sticky so that more folks can learn how mixing by weight is done right.

I now mix four or five 1/2 liter mixes at a time of my ADV and couldn't imagine doing that any other way except by weight.

 

[ShowerHead]

When I started mixing, I used syringes and beakers. That took forever what with the cleaning, making sure the amount was just right in the syringes, sucking VG into one, etc. Did I mention cleaning?
When I stumbled onto this thread, I was very pleased. I still mix into a beaker because I (forgive me here) use a battery operated baby formula stirrer to get a good mix.
What used to take close to 50 minutes from plugging in the scale to drying the last beaker now takes about 10. I'm slow, what can I say. But there are only the two beakers to wash after mixing two juices for the week. Besides the time savings, I am much more accurate and reproducible with the scale than with the syringes.

The way of the weigh is the only way! For me. (gratuitous IMO disclaimer to prevent "But I don't do it that way' replies)

 

[DaveP]

When I started mixing, I used syringes and beakers. That took forever what with the cleaning, making sure the amount was just right in the syringes, sucking VG into one, etc. Did I mention cleaning?
When I stumbled onto this thread, I was very pleased. I still mix into a beaker because I (forgive me here) use a battery operated baby formula stirrer to get a good mix.
What used to take close to 50 minutes from plugging in the scale to drying the last beaker now takes about 10. I'm slow, what can I say. But there are only the two beakers to wash after mixing two juices for the week. Besides the time savings, I am much more accurate and reproducible with the scale than with the syringes.

The way of the weigh is the only way! For me. (gratuitous IMO disclaimer to prevent "But I don't do it that way' replies)

I love mixing by weight. Scales are great for most DIY juice applications.

Syringes have their place just like scales. I like mixing directly into the bottle on a scale, but it may not be for everyone. We all have our own little set of skills and methods. It can be tough for some to use a dropper or a syringe to ring a small bottle neck. For others, viewing levels on a beaker may be easier than watching a scale display while dispensing a flavor into that narrow bottle top.

In between major pours where I use the scale to fill six 50ml bottles of flavors and a couple of 100ml bottles of unflavored nic mix, I use the unflavored as a flavor free alternate vape and to test new flavors. For that, a syringe is the best tool for me to use. I suck up 10ml of unflavored (minus an estimate for flavor amount) and just squirt it into the 20ml LDPE bottle. After adding drops of flavor, I shake it up and I'm done and there's nothing to clean except the syringe.

For me, both methods are resources I can use depending on which meets my immediate goal. Neither is best, but one or the other will meet the need for a particular application.

 

[SteveS45]

I recently mixed a small 15ML for someone directly in the bottle and really can't see any reason I would have used a scale. One Syringe and a cup of water to rinse it.