Mixing By Weight: Basics 101

[IDJoel]

Given my age, poor eyesight, tremors, and pathetic pallet after 40+ years smoking, not too sure I could blame a change in flavor on an un-calibrated scale..........no matter how far off it tested. Just thought it might be nice to remove that variable from the equation......since that is the only variable with that option.

I personally always had a mental battle with all the unknown variables in any form of uncertified weights. I have yet to come across a single nickle that weighs precisely 5 grams. the "econo" calibration weights found all over ebay, and yahoo, have a permissible discrepancy of 5% (when they bother to declare). And, in a 500g weight, that can be as much as 25 grams! Accurate, certified, precise, calibration weights are just plain cost prohibitive.

@OlderNDirt, I know you freely discuss your age, and health, so I hope I am not being too forward with the following question. Are you on a first name basis with your pharmacist yet? I ask, because I was thinking they must have need of a certified scale, and probably require periodic re-certification, for it to remain in use at a professional pharmacy. If you are on pleasant terms with a pharmacy/pharmacist; you might be able to take your scale in (during their quite hours; of course), and barrow their calibration weights to verify your own scale. Or, at least get an accurate understanding of what your own calibration set really weighs.

 

[OlderNDirt]

I personally always had a mental battle with all the unknown variables in any form of uncertified weights. I have yet to come across a single nickle that weighs precisely 5 grams. the "econo" calibration weights found all over ebay, and yahoo, have a permissible discrepancy of 5% (when they bother to declare). And, in a 500g weight, that can be as much as 25 grams! Accurate, certified, precise, calibration weights are just plain cost prohibitive.

Well, crap! Once yet again, the voice of reason and common sense (just funnin' with ya)! Let me see if I've got this right in slightly more brash words: What the makes me so sure my scale is off by .07g and not the calibration weight? And I can only respond with: IDFK! or DOH! Now I'm probably going to want to go have my weights weighed on 10 laboratory scales and average the results! Wait a minute! If I am going to subscribe to this theory that my calibration weight, as well as my scale could be off....... what if the calibration weight is heavy by 5g and my scale weighs light by 4.93g resulting in it reading 100.07?????

OK! Don't anybody jump in with detailed analysis of my musings. I've seen the light! I will return to just mixing my juice with this scale, accurate or inaccurate as it may be, until a real problem arises like a mix coming up way off. (Wait another minute! What if it is a new recipe? How will I know if my scale messed it up or it's just a horrible recipe? Oh, nevermind!) I hate that I may have wasted the cost of the calibration weights and would still like to know just how to calibrate this scale, but will just mix on and check it on occasion.

BTW, I am assuming equally cheap weights from Amazon are no more accurate then Ebay or Yahoo.

@OlderNDirt, I know you freely discuss your age, and health, so I hope I am not being too forward with the following question.

Man, you had me a little nervous at this point! We have no pharmacist in this small town and I get my Part D (or whatever it's called) meds through the mail......so no and I don't even have a name. But I may check around for anybody that may have a scale I could check a 200g and 500g calibration weight if that turns out to be what I need. But at the cost of those two weights, I could just buy another scale. Back-ups for our back-ups, right?

I better stop with that! Sorry all!

 

[IDJoel]

I've seen the light! I will return to just mixing my juice with this scale, accurate or inaccurate as it may be, until a real problem arises

I share your frustration my friend!
My obsessive need to be right, or at least as "right" as I am willing to be (yeah... yeah... yeah... I know; that bar is set without any vertical challenge!), sent me down a similar rabbit hole. When I started seeing all the uncontrolled (by me) variables, I decided to return to my ostrich stance (head firmly in sand), and ignore calibration.

My "average drops" seem to weigh in the neighborhood of 0.03g. As long as they stay in this vicinity; I am satisfied. When that starts getting sketchy, I will either start trying to figure out how to re-calibrate it, or shop for a new scale.

BTW, I am assuming equally cheap weights from Amazon are no more accurate then Ebay or Yahoo.

TL;dr (short answer): yes.

If you are in the mood for some dry technical reading, this sales brochure (by Fisher Scientific) well tell you more than you ever wanted to know about calibration weights:
https://static.fishersci.com/cmsass...c/pdf/MettlerToledo/11796035_OIML_weights.pdf
For abreviated reading, check out page 13, which lists all the acceptable tolerances for all the IOML, ANSI, and ASTM industry standards. Any seller that does not specify a specific certification level; I would personally assume "at or above" the highest variation. Others may feel different.

Man, you had me a little nervous at this point!

Yeah... I kind of paused as I was writing that sentence. The "gentle Joel" in me said this might set off a few alarms, the "evil Joel" said to go ahead and tug your chain a little, and then the "gentle Joel" said that the actual question could not possibly be worse than your imagination, and thereby soften any potential offense. Bottom line; it was kinda cruel, but I am glad you saw the humor in it.

We have no pharmacist in this small town and I get my Part D (or whatever it's called) meds through the mail......so no and I don't even have a name. But I may check around for anybody that may have a scale I could check a 200g and 500g calibration weight if that turns out to be what I need. But at the cost of those two weights, I could just buy another scale. Back-ups for our back-ups, right?

I don't know what you have, in the way of industry or educational institutions, in your area. But, I would be looking for colleges, scientific businesses, gems/precious metal dealers, research, and/or medical fields... anyone that might have need for certification-level scale use. The idea of colleges and universities, that have research or industrial programs, stand out in my mind. Professors tend to be very accommodating, if you can catch them during office hours.

If you ever do get it figured out, I would be curious to know your results, as I use the SF-400D as well.

One last tidbit of useless info, if you feel like dealing with folks in China; I figured out who actually manufactures our scales. They are SuoFei and their homepage is Chinese Oem- Electronic scales,Kitchen Scale,Hook scales,Human scale-JiangYin SuoFei Electronic Technology Co.,Ltd.
I don't have the patience/motivation to try that route; but you may feel differently. This is their link for our specific scale: JiangYin SuoFei Electronic Technology Co.,Ltd.
In any case, I am glad you have found (at least) some peace about it.

 

[mhertz]

Yeah, hunting for the perfect precision/calibration is probably futile, and if we can just achieve repeat-ability then that's really all that matters in the end, hence why I use the same coin always to check 10 times, so I know if said repeat-ability is compromised and if not, then it's all happy days with my "probably not very precise" but fully repeatable recipes My first scale gotten, which I still use as primary scale, has never been calibrated and still passes the repeat-ability tests after I believe almost 3 years. I love that scale, very fast updating, so no waiting and 11'ish bucks, lol(the only reason I don't use the generally recommended models, is that shipping/customs yeilds an overhead of 50+ USD on top of the price).

 

[ShowerHead]

Earlier in this thread, using nickels to calibrate was discussed. I saved up a bunch with that intent and started weighing them up. While about half weighed the correct 5 grams, the rest came in all over the place. Or given my un-calibrated scale, were those weighing 5 grams actually wrong? Given that, and your video link showing a different scale using some foreign coinage, I didn't garner much from it.

Ah, every coin weighed the same, but when he took all of them at one weigh, the were not the weight they should have been. 10x4=40 but the scale says 61.

You seem to asking a philosophical question. What's the weight of something if I don't trust the measure?
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind...

 

[Capt.shay]

1. Is my discrepancy of .07 on a 100g weight worth worrying about and if not, at what level should I be concerned?

That's like two drops, literally. If I'm adding 100g of something to a recipe and I find I have added two extra drops, I'm certainly not going to worry about it. It is still a hell of a lot more accurate than trying to deal with a meniscus and residual weight etc. in the graded stuff.

 

[OlderNDirt]

My "average drops" seem to weigh in the neighborhood of 0.03g. As long as they stay in this vicinity; I am satisfied. When that starts getting sketchy, I will either start trying to figure out how to re-calibrate it, or shop for a new scale.

Since I now have my wonderful set of calibration weights, I'll just make use of them by using one for a quick check occasionally when setting up for a mixing session.

For abreviated reading, check out page 13, which lists all the acceptable tolerances for all the IOML, ANSI, and ASTM industry standards. Any seller that does not specify a specific certification level; I would personally assume "at or above" the highest variation. Others may feel different.

I went to the set I bought on Amazon and the bad news is......it says nothing about tolerances. Good news is, the set came with some cheesy, plastic, tiny tweezers and the weights are guaranteed not to rust! See! I knew what I was doing!

I don't know what you have, in the way of industry or educational institutions, in your area.

I can tell you are not overly familiar with "my area"....rural Nebraska! There is a post office in town and a community college 30 miles away. Not sure I would call their instructors "professors." My best option would probably be a jeweler and there is one in the city.

If you ever do get it figured out, I would be curious to know your results, as I use the SF-400D as well.

I take it "figured out" includes finding out what weights are actually needed for calibration? I do have a number for the store that made the sale on Ebay. Might at least be slightly interesting to get their thoughts on how one calibrates the scale they sell.

One last tidbit of useless info, if you feel like dealing with folks in China;

OlderNDirt gives that a thought for 1 second.......which is all it takes to decide.....NO!


Thanks, my friend! I always enjoy the banter which always seems to include some very worthwhile information!

 

[OlderNDirt]

OK! If anybody, including @IDJoel is following my inquiry and still gives a ..........

The Ebay seller, anyvolume, also has a web store. I called their number and spoke with a very nice and accommodating gal who filled me in. While earlier model releases (SF-400, 400A, 400C) may calibrate with a single 100g weight, the SF-400D evidently uses a 2 weight calibration method using 200g and 500g weights. Given the cost of just those 2 weights, around $14, a set including those would seem the way to go since they seem to be about the same price.

Looks like my best solution is to just mix away and should I drop it or it goes seriously bonkers, I'll just get another $21 scale.

Disclaimer: I make no claims for which method your SF-whatever scale uses or what calibration weights are required for said calibration! Looks like you will find out for sure when you hit the "Mode" OR "CAL" button, depending on your specific model.

 

[IDJoel]

the SF-400D evidently uses a 2 weight calibration method using 200g and 500g weights.

Thanks Older! I have bookmarked your post, as well as made a note on the "manual," that came with my SF-400D. Thanks for seeking out a learned opinion!

I can tell you are not overly familiar with "my area"....rural Nebraska!

Right about that; I am afraid my full "Nebraska experience" culminates in 3 drive-throughs, as I was traveling on various coast-to-coast trips. I do recall a severe absence of structures, in all but the east end, of the state.

Thanks, my friend! I always enjoy the banter which always seems to include some very worthwhile information!

The feeling is mutual good sir; always!

 

[OlderNDirt]

Right about that; I am afraid my full "Nebraska experience" culminates in 3 drive-throughs, as I was traveling on various coast-to-coast trips. I do recall a severe absence of structures, in all but the east end, of the state.

Well then, it's time for another trip! About half way on I80 is the nations only over the interstate attraction. Unfortunately most travelers are pretty sleepy by then.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I've mentioned the ELR site before, that's the only "calculator" I use. There is a little time involved when you first start using the site, as you enter your ingredients, but that's easy as too, since when you start typing the "name", the online database immediately starts giving you a list of brands that match. Now when you begin a new mix with the flavors you own, the gravity is correct. I store all my mixes there "unpublished", and can bring them back up at anytime, as I fine tune them, along with notes etc. For me, it stores everything for DIY in one place, couldn't be more handy, as well as accurate. Good luck!

Since you posted this back in May, I have started using the ELR site, inputting data each time I go to mix. Its starting to shape up nicely. Thank you.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Well, crap! Once yet again, the voice of reason and common sense (just funnin' with ya)! Let me see if I've got this right in slightly more brash words: What the makes me so sure my scale is off by .07g and not the calibration weight? And I can only respond with: IDFK! or DOH! Now I'm probably going to want to go have my weights weighed on 10 laboratory scales and average the results! Wait a minute! If I am going to subscribe to this theory that my calibration weight, as well as my scale could be off....... what if the calibration weight is heavy by 5g and my scale weighs light by 4.93g resulting in it reading 100.07?????

OK! Don't anybody jump in with detailed analysis of my musings. I've seen the light! I will return to just mixing my juice with this scale, accurate or inaccurate as it may be, until a real problem arises like a mix coming up way off. (Wait another minute! What if it is a new recipe? How will I know if my scale messed it up or it's just a horrible recipe? Oh, nevermind!) I hate that I may have wasted the cost of the calibration weights and would still like to know just how to calibrate this scale, but will just mix on and check it on occasion.

BTW, I am assuming equally cheap weights from Amazon are no more accurate then Ebay or Yahoo.



Man, you had me a little nervous at this point! We have no pharmacist in this small town and I get my Part D (or whatever it's called) meds through the mail......so no and I don't even have a name. But I may check around for anybody that may have a scale I could check a 200g and 500g calibration weight if that turns out to be what I need. But at the cost of those two weights, I could just buy another scale. Back-ups for our back-ups, right?

I better stop with that! Sorry all!

I know you said you live in a small town but what about asking the po to weigh whatever weights you want to check for using calibration? Seems that may be doable. Doesn't everyone know their post master? I know your state well seeing that I was born one state down and still have family there.

 

[OlderNDirt]

I know you said you live in a small town but what about asking the po to weigh whatever weights you want to check for using calibration? Seems that may be doable. Doesn't everyone know their post master? I know your state well seeing that I was born one state down and still have family there.

Just got back from a short trip. I was thinking of checking that out...should be do-able although I have had a dispute with a previous post office and post mistress over continuously charging postage due on the identical packages sent out across the state. I think this post mistress will be far more cooperative!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Just got back from a short trip. I was thinking of checking that out...should be do-able although I have had a dispute with a previous post office and post mistress over continuously charging postage due on the identical packages sent out across the state. I think this post mistress will be far more cooperative!

That doesn't sound good. I have heard of companies sending packages to people of items never ordered and wanted postage due. PO should investigate those as the frauds they are, not arguing with those who never ordered or wanted the packages to begin with.

 

[OlderNDirt]

That doesn't sound good. I have heard of companies sending packages to people of items never ordered and wanted postage due. PO should investigate those as the frauds they are, not arguing with those who never ordered or wanted the packages to begin with.

Just to clarify a bit. Several years ago, we received the exact same package and contents that were sent by a reputable organization to multiple locations across the state. Ours always came postage due while all others were delivered fine. We started just refusing them and monitored others. Always ours postage due, all the others, never. We had the sender weigh the refused packages when we could get there and they were stumped why there was postage due. Had their scales checked and were fine. So I finally took an unopened, postage due package to the regional post office and had it weighed there. While it was technically over weight, the needle went slightly past the line without coming close to the top bar, they could not even imagine any postal employee even taking the time to put it on a scale, let alone letting it settle to see if it would end up a fraction past the line. We made arrangements to have future packages sent to a different address and post office and never had another come postage due.

But I will check with this post office about verifying my weights although, even if they are accurate, they're still the wrong ones for calibration.

 

[IDJoel]

I am skeptical that the PO uses, or calibrates to, the hundredth of a gram (0.01g); but I could be wrong. WA is my home state after all ("WA" for "Wrong Again!"; not Washington... and I have two ex-wives that will freely attest to that whenever needed!). However, it's worth a shot.

 

[OlderNDirt]

I have to believe at least a couple of those "postage due" packages were only over about 0.01 or 0.02 grams. And since that was before digital, that old gal had some good eye sight!

 

[DaveP]

I have to believe at least a couple of those "postage due" packages were only over about 0.01 or 0.02 grams. And since that was before digital, that old gal had some good eye sight!

What's .01 to .02 grams in overdue postage? I guess they'll argue about 2/100ths of a gram over weight! It's a good example of nit-picking.

 

[OlderNDirt]

Just in case some of our younger posters are having trouble picturing the type of scale used back in those days, this but instead of the 2 lines to match up, it had a pointer stopping just short of the fixed line.

What's .01 to .02 grams in overdue postage? I guess they'll argue over 2/100ths of a gram over weight! It's a good example of nit-picking.

Since looking down at it from a standing position wasn't 100% accurate, the old bat would bend over to get an eye level view to see if any part of the line/pointer went above the line and any fraction above the line and postage due.

 

[DaveP]

I have never calibrated my AWS LB-501 scales. I meant to do it at some time, but haven't gotten around to it. It passes the nickle test, so it's fairly accurate at low weights. My juice tastes fine and I really haven't seen the need to calibrate. There's always something else I need to do. I just mix and vape and it's all good.