Mod with Safety issues???

[Uma]

How is it bogus? The air can or cannot escape. Simple as that. I can see how it could be manipulated though, to look like the air escaped.. or not.
haha, well, I didn't mean on the sellers shop website, but here in the forum where most of them do their wheelin' and dealin', and it would remind modders to keep vents in mind before setting up shop on their newly turned shiney gadget.

What spurred me into this thought... was Roly on one hand saying lots of modders do not include vents on their products. While on the other hand, Russ is saying All the modders have vents on their mods.

Some are air holes, some are fancy slots, some are air space around a bottom button. (I still can't fanthom the bottom button air space vent, and need proper instructionals instead of rolled eyes and yelling from fanbois).

So yeh, whatever. Just thought it might be fun to have a Challenge of the Vented mods.

 

[Rocketman]

As long as they use a Standardized Industrial Balloon (SIB) and not a party balloon

I can see someone objecting to a balloon test.
A large low pressure blow out plug would fail balloon test.
Small leaks, not vents, may have lubricant or soft sealant in them and would fail a balloon test. A mod with slots covered with a poly wrap would fail a balloon test, and of course a pipe bomb would fail.

But I agree that if the modder/vendor was afraid to balloon test their device, they could entertain us by making balloon animals

Maybe they could include a balloon in the kit.
Pipe bomb mod, cheap charger, counterfeit 16340 cells, a new fangled tank, and a balloon.

 

[CapitalPuff]

I am jumping in late here, but madvapes is selling a vented version of the telescope... Not sure if madvapes modded it or if these are the "fixed" version from Smoktech... Either way, it looks like they vented the top and bottom sections.

The Vented Telescope Adjustable Tube Mod, Chrome

 

[zoiDman]

How is it bogus? The air can or cannot escape. Simple as that. I can see how it could be manipulated though, to look like the air escaped.. or not. ....

First, I'm not Indorsing or Condoning the Telescope Mod in its Released form.

I think what left some people Scratching their Heads about the "Balloon Test" was it didn't reflect the Gas Pressures that would be involved if a Battery suffered Catastrophic Failure.

I can put a Balloon on my Car Radiator Hose and see if my Radiator will Explode. And if I use the same Logic as in the Video, I would conclude that my radiator Will Explode because it is Air Tight. Were in Actuality, the Radiator Cap will vent Before the Radiator will Explode.

The OEM, either Correctly or Incorrectly, stated that Venting would occur thru the Telescopes Threads. And the Video showed that the Threads were indeed Lose. But we didn't see any Balloon Testing, or Any test regarding this.

Whereas the Balloon Test was very Nice Theater, some questioned was it Really a Definitive Test that Proves a Telescope will Explode.

 

[Rocketman]

A balloon test will find a hole in your radiator hose or radiator. Even a 'Pressure test' of your cooling system doesn't blow up your hose or your radiator, it finds leaks, proof test the system up to the release pressure of the radiator cap. The video did show that the threads did not leak. I would sure hate to have a leaky PV
If was not a 'proof test', under pressure. What good would a proof test be for a PV? A proof test would be useful for a pipe bomb. Showing that a PV won't leak or blow up with 15 PSI would be better? If a PV has a blow out plug, then a proof test of that would be useful. But pressure testing a PV to high pressure would not make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

A PV that fails a balloon test better have a real good explanation of why it doesn't leak at low pressure.



Maybe it would be better to TIME the balloon as it leaks down. Would 3 minutes make you feel warm and fuzzy about venting?


Maybe we are missing the original point of the video. A balloon test will not prove a mod is safe. Failing does however indicate a very unsafe condition. If a PV passes, it has some kind of venting going on. Enough? Don't know. But if it fails, buyer beware.

 

[zoiDman]

Some might say that since the Mod DIDN’T Explode using the Balloon Test, that the “Balloon Test” Doesn’t Prove Anything.

I’m not going to Rehash all the Hundreds of Pages of Posts that have been made. This horse Has been Beaten to Death.

But my Opinion is that the Balloon Test Did Not Adequately Convince Me that the Mod Would Explode. And that the OEM made a Fundamental Error in Not Including Vent Holes in the Initial Release.

 

[Rocketman]

This is ECF, dead horse beating central

My opinion is :The OEM made a Fundamental Error in Not Including Vent Holes in the Initial Release.

The silicon sealant in the bottom is to hold the spring in place. Any leakage past the switch would be a fraction of any little hole drilled in the tube. Telescoped out to hold stacked cells reduces the number of engaged threads to keep the PV from coming apart in your face. Hot gasses leaking past the threads would only direct it directly toward the vapers face.

The initial release of this PV, by a major PV manufacturer, is about the best example of a pipe bomb I have ever seen.
Comparable to some of the 'plumber's delights' made by modders gone retail.

From what little we know about PVs blowing up,
is there a more likely 'pipe bomb' candidate on the market than the initial release version of this PV?


Maybe it's time for another balloon test
(or time for each vaper to take an objective look at their PVs)

 

[Rocketman]

Now that there appears to be two new versions of this PV available, replacement bottom tubes from one vendor with some kind of vents, and another vendor with holes drilled in both the top tube and the bottom tube, which one will be safer?
Are the holes adequate? Better than unvented?


What model should we 'balloon test' next? What explanations should we expect for a PV that doesn't show low pressure venting?

 

[zoiDman]

Now that there appears to be two new versions of this PV available, replacement bottom tubes from one vendor with some kind of vents, and another vendor with holes drilled in both the top tube and the bottom tube, which one will be safer?

...

Only a 3 Cent Yellow Balloon Knows For Sure.

 

[Rocketman]

If you want a higher test pressure, use a rubber glove.
You can check for compression leaks into your radiator (head gasket leaks) with a balloon,
test diesel injectors for compression backflow,
find leaks in plumbing,
leak test breathing air supply lines and apparatus,
and one I used to love;

aggravate your procurement office by ordering a pack of balloons from some place like We-Be-Toys, and yes, they take government PO's

 

[Uma]

Fascinating debate guys! Thanks so much for explaining it in layman's terms for me and any others like me. My intuitions were spot on, which is basically all I had to go on until this debate.
Finally, I understand the bottom button a bit too. The radiator cap illustration helped immensely!
Personally, I would prefer a low pressure escape. The high pressure release should be a last resort, to my way of thinking. To wait for the cap to release, is akin to waiting until the atty rockets into the skull. Not good. But, hey, it did release as advertised! lol

I have a lot to absorb. I can't thank you enough for your efforts to instruct/inform me. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Now, if only the modders/sellers would find a yellow balloon....

 

[Rocketman]

I think it's time to move on.


Find another unsuspecting vendor, and balloon test their model and post in on youtube

 

[Uma]

If you want a higher test pressure, use a rubber glove.
You can check for compression leaks into your radiator (head gasket leaks) with a balloon,
test diesel injectors for compression backflow,
find leaks in plumbing,
leak test breathing air supply lines and apparatus,
and one I used to love;

aggravate your procurement office by ordering a pack of balloons from some place like We-Be-Toys, and yes, they take government PO's

Excellent tip! I've even seen this in practice before on various subjects. (excluding the ecig).

The size & placement of the upper vent hole per material of pipe is still in question for me. To modify my own, I'll just have the guy (or self ) keep trying the balloon test until we hit pay dirt. Hopefully a series of small holes will work... I wouldn't want a large one, for fear of the battery being punctured when falling upon a sharp point.

 

[zoiDman]

The problem with All this is No Matter What an OEM Does, Someone can Find a Scenario for Why It is Bad.

Can’t Vent thru the Thread – Gases go towards Face. Vent Holes on the Diameter of the End Cap – Gases Could Burn Hand. Vent Holes at top of Mod – Gases could Point Towards Eyes. Vent Holes – Needs Slots.

Maybe the Only Truly Safe Mod is the one with No Batteries in it?

Even if it Does Pass the SenseFeild Government Certified ISO-9001 Balloon Test.

 

[Uma]

Haha, yeh, it's kind of frustrating ... but only because nothing is ever foolproof. But, as a consumer, and I can only speak for myself, I want a mod that:
1. will release the initial stages of expelled gas, which will inform me that something is amiss, yet give me a moment to figure where to throw the thing besides towards the swings where the kids are playing or under the oncoming bus... y'know... a warning heat.
2. Thick enough material the vented mod won't turn into a shrapnel grenade.
3. vented correctly for the type of material and size of battery, to expel the gas before the top rockets into my skull. A headsup warning, if you may.

I think, really, that's the most I can hope for and I even expect to have these type of safety alerts involved in the creative renderings of any mod I choose to buy.
A Headsup, not a Heads off.

 

[hmlessalky]

If you were to experience a meltdown, especially if you are using a safer chemistry battery (as you should be), I would guess the scalding heat would let you know something was wrong well before it would ever blow up in your face. An IMR doesn't just go off immediately, it is a slower failure process. Not sure of the speed of reactivity of a 'protected' battery if the circuit fails though.

 

[Rocketman]

OK, so as far as a mechanical mods goes, what is better or worse than this PV in it's initial release or vented version?
And why? Is the GG with bottom vents better? It costs more. Is the Silver Bullet, made with an electrical switch (with stack battery extension tubes) better? It has a 'Hotty Spring'.
I personally don't mind having a regular old electrical switch, but some seem to like an "all mechanical mod".

Find a metal tube PV, that can take stacked cells, is all mechanical, and tell me why it is better or worse.
Maybe all metal tube mods should be outlawed until they can be PROVEN SAFE.
Maybe using stacked little bitty batteries should be outlawed.

I'd be all for that.
Totally eliminate the balloon test requirement

 

[Uma]

If you were to experience a meltdown, especially if you are using a safer chemistry battery (as you should be), I would guess the scalding heat would let you know something was wrong well before it would ever blow up in your face. An IMR doesn't just go off immediately, it is a slower failure process. Not sure of the speed of reactivity of a 'protected' battery if the circuit fails though.

That's what many of us assume. However, the material and the thickness of the material of the mod, plays a key factor in the theory. I read on one forum how there was no heat whatsoever produced on their mod that had a battery meltdown.
There are many considerations to take into account.

 

[Uma]

OK, so as far as a mechanical mods goes, what is better or worse than this PV in it's initial release or vented version?
And why? Is the GG with bottom vents better? It costs more. Is the Silver Bullet, made with an electrical switch (with stack battery extension tubes) better? It has a 'Hotty Spring'.
I personally don't mind having a regular old electrical switch, but some seem to like an "all mechanical mod".

Find a metal tube PV, that can take stacked cells, is all mechanical, and tell me why it is better or worse.
Maybe all metal tube mods should be outlawed until they can be PROVEN SAFE.
Maybe using stacked little bitty batteries should be outlawed.

I'd be all for that.
Totally eliminate the balloon test requirement

eliminate the balloon test requirement??? Oh heaven forbid!! That would take the fun out of the challenge.
The GG prooved to expel gas long before the recessed atty blew. I don't even think it did blow, come to think of it. I'd have to re-read that. It's a well built pv, with a key safety outlet. It also heated in the hand, causing an alarm to the user. A double safety key.
The SB has the hot spring, yes, but will the battery continue to overheat, expel gasses, and blow even after the spring is melted and the switch is not pushed? The GG did, so why wouldn't the SB? Or any other mod? I imagine the SB's vents will help to relieve the "pipebomb" explosion effect.
I think the only thing that needs outlawed are Modders with God complexes who make fun of their customers who ask about safety vents. They're going to hurt the entire industry if they don't take heed of the seriousness of the issue. A headsup safety feature certainly isn't going to hurt their business... in fact, it should do the opposite. How many customers would buy if they felt safer? Too many to count...

I'm preachin'? Yep. LOL. My apologies. Just wish to see the balloon tests and you're wishing to eliminate them. AARRGGHH. lol. (j/k).

 

[hmlessalky]

I would say the switch type is irrelevant. Unless you are using the switch as a venting spot. And as far as I know, and I may be wrong, the telescope mod was not advertised as a stacked battery mod. So basically you all think mod manufacturers need to design everything to take into account blatant misuse of their designed product? If that is so, we might as well apply that to everything, and have every product in our world made from small soft material (if it was big you could suffocate someone with it).

Even taking into consideration the guidelines the ECF has on single battery mods, you still will not make everyone happy or you will not have a well functioning product.

The telescopic mod may not have been the best design initially, but if it would have had a small hole, much smaller than the ones now, no one would have batted an eye.

The real problem is people unwilling to take responsibility for their actions, and on top of that, going out into the world and spreading their story without letting people know it was their stupid fault that cause the incident.

And as far as metal tube pvs go, we could all use plastic pvs, but the second a battery melt down occurred and burned someone's hand we would be back where we started.