Mouth, lungs or both?

[CE3K]

I'm becoming confused by contradictions on this Forum relating to where nicotine from an e-cig is absorbed!
Some people say 'in the mouth', some say 'in the mouth and lungs', one has said 'nicotine from a cigarette is absorbed in the lungs, but in the mouth from an e-cig'.

As far as I'm concerned, nicotine will get absorbed across any hydrated cell wall and so surely, if you inhale vapour from an e-cig, the nicotine will get absorbed both in the mouth and in the lungs.

Please can anyone point me towards a science-based document or link which gives me the right answer for this.

 

[Baditude]

No direct links, but everything that I have read says the nicotine in vapor is absorbed in the mouth, throat, and nasal passageways. The molecules which make up vapor is larger than smoke molecules. These are too large to pass into the tiny alveoli in the lungs where absorbtion takes place.

Therefore, I advise new vapers to imagine sucking on a straw in a thick milkshake; use your cheek muscles to get a mouthful of vapor. A long, slow, gentle draw 4 - 6 seconds in length. Hold it a second, and then inhale into the lungs for the "cigarette experience".

Exhale some of the vapor through your nose. Your sense of smell assists your sense of taste. With some flavors you may experience one flavor with the inhale, and another with the exhale.

 

[Thunderball]

As far as I'm concerned, nicotine will get absorbed across any hydrated cell wall and so surely, if you inhale vapour from an e-cig, the nicotine will get absorbed both in the mouth and in the lungs.

No links, but I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Im willing to bet a Provari that your right.

 

[CE3K]

No direct links, but everything that I have read says the nicotine in vapor is absorbed in the mouth, throat, and nasal passageways. The molecules which make up vapor is larger than smoke molecules. These are too large to pass into the tiny alveoli in the lungs where absorbtion takes place.

Therefore, I advise new vapers to imagine sucking on a straw in a thick milkshake; use your cheek muscles to get a mouthful of vapor. A long, slow, gentle draw 4 - 6 seconds in length. Hold it a second, and then inhale into the lungs for the "cigarette experience".

Exhale some of the vapor through your nose. Your sense of smell assists your sense of taste. With some flavors you may experience one flavor with the inhale, and another with the exhale.

Thanks for your reply .

As far as I'm aware, the vapour consists of a number of molecules (e.g PG, Nicotene, Flavouring) . . . these don't combine into one large molecule and so that means the nicotine is a 'free' molecule and therefore free to be absorbed by any hydrated cell wall. The PG and flavour molecules are much larger molecules and can't be absorbed through cell walls.

So, this still leads me to the conclusion that, not only will the nicotine be absorbed through the cheek cells but, if inhaled, it will also be absorbed by the alveoli in the lungs . . . . . which leads me to question; why do some people say you have to draw and hold in the mouth because that's where the nicotine gets absorbed from e-cigs? when to me, it seems it should be no different from smoking traditional ciggies (where people tend not to hold the smoke in the mouth) and the majority of the nicotine is absorbed through the lining of the lungs.

I just don't get where this (mis)information is coming from (unless someone can point me towards some science-based info).

The reason I ask these questions and seek clarification is primarily related to the phrase often used; 'how to vape' (when I can't see that it should be any different from smoking a ciggie to get the nicotine).

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

I Vape just like I always smoked and I get a good level of nicotine in my system so who knows.

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

Mouth, lungs, nose for me

 

[Katya]

Think Nicorette gum, lozenges or QuickMist.

If you like to inhale, by all means, you may do so. But it's not necessary with vaping.

 

[Free6413]

Can I reply..........yes?

 

[Mutescream]

I think it probably has a lot to do with flavor/blowing out clouds/not choking.
Take a nice long "hit" off your vape.... something that will make a comparable billowing cloud to a nice long slow drag... Make it a lung hit, and let us know how that worked out. Don't forget to include the flavor experience in your description, please.

 

[n3oteris]

This is a very interesting thread and Im looking forward to see some comments and possibly some real data. Curiosity of a new vaper I guess.

 

[mare ze dotes]

I have found vaping and smoking to be very different. When smoking I would pull into my lungs. When vaping I pull into my mouth and kind'a roll it around, a bit down my throat only enough to feel like I am doing something. then poof out through the mouth or nose ( not so much the nose, bit sometimes)

 

[Baditude]

Thanks for your reply .

As far as I'm aware, the vapour consists of a number of molecules (e.g PG, Nicotene, Flavouring) . . . these don't combine into one large molecule and so that means the nicotine is a 'free' molecule and therefore free to be absorbed by any hydrated cell wall. The PG and flavour molecules are much larger molecules and can't be absorbed through cell walls.

So, this still leads me to the conclusion that, not only will the nicotine be absorbed through the cheek cells but, if inhaled, it will also be absorbed by the alveoli in the lungs . . . . . which leads me to question; why do some people say you have to draw and hold in the mouth because that's where the nicotine gets absorbed from e-cigs? when to me, it seems it should be no different from smoking traditional ciggies (where people tend not to hold the smoke in the mouth) and the majority of the nicotine is absorbed through the lining of the lungs.

I just don't get where this (mis)information is coming from (unless someone can point me towards some science-based info).

The reason I ask these questions and seek clarification is primarily related to the phrase often used; 'how to vape' (when I can't see that it should be any different from smoking a ciggie to get the nicotine).

I would argue that the molecules of vapor, or mist, are of the same size. Vapor molecules are the carrier of the nicotine as well as the Pg, Vg, and flavoring agents.

This is the rationale of having people use the proper technique with e-cigarettes of doing the oral inhale technique, and not directly into the lungs as some people did with analogues.

The above makes sense to me and the advice has been handed down by the more experienced vapers. You don't have to follow it if you don't want to. Vape the way you want, oral or lung inhale.

 

[CE3K]

I decided to do a little more research and the following extracts are from the chemistry department at Bristol University . . . . .

Absorption of nicotine through cellular membranes depends on the pH. If the pH is acidic, nicotine is ionized and does not easily pass through membranes. At physiologic pH (pH = 7.4), 31% of nicotine is not ionized and easily passes through membranes.

The tobacco smoke pH is acidic, and this acidity only allows a little absorption in the mouth. Inhalation is therefore necessary to allow nicotine to be absorbed by the huge area of alveolar epithelium. In the lungs, nicotine is quicklyt absorbed by the systemic circulation. This absorption is easy because the blood flow is high in the lung capillaries : a volume equal to the blood volume of the body passes each minute. So, the rate of nicotine qickly rises when a cigarette is smoked. Absorbed nicotine is rapidly distributed among all the organs, and it reaches the brain within only ten seconds.

And from the 'How Stuff Works' website . . . . .

Just 10 seconds after a cigarette smoker inhales, nicotine is absorbed through the skin and the mucosal linings in the nose, mouth and lungs, and travels through the bloodstream to the brain. It stimulates adrenal glands to produce epinephrine, a hormone and neurotransmitter you also know as adrenaline. This increases heart rate and blood pressure while constricting blood vessels; it also stimulates the production of dopamine, a neurotransmitter that controls the brain's pleasure center. Inhaling nicotine gives the most immediate effects, and that's not a coincidence; it's because your lungs are lined with millions of tiny air sacs called alveoli. Alveoli provide an enormous surface area -- more than 40 times the surface area of your skin -- making it the most efficient way to get nicotine into the bloodstream [source: Richardson]. Nicotine only stays in the human body for a few hours; it has a half-life of about an hour or two, meaning that six hours after smoking a cigarette, only about 0.031 milligram of the 1 milligram of nicotine you inhaled remains [source: Hukkanen, Benowitz].
Nicotine can also be absorbed through your gastrointestinal tract and your skin -- this is how smokeless tobacco products such as chewing tobacco, skin patches and gum deliver their nicotine fix.

So I fairly sure that this answers my original questions which related to the different understandings people have about how and where nicotine is absorbed from an e-cig or a cigarette.

It's clear to me that the majority of nicotine is absorbed through inhalation, although some will be absorbed in the mouth if it's held there long enough.

 

[Katya]

That is true--for cigarette SMOKE. Combustion. What we are trying to avoid here.

Vaping is a different animal altogether.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ng-inhaling-need-help-please.html#post7192315

 

[CE3K]

That is true--for cigarette SMOKE. Combustion. What we are trying to avoid here.

Vaping is a different animal altogether.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ng-inhaling-need-help-please.html#post7192315

Thanks the the link Katya.
That was the thread I read which caused me to submit my post in the first place! Differing views on how/where the nicotine is absorbed. Even Rolygates response, although very helpful, is slightly contradictory in my opinion.

At the end of the day, I agree that there are different techniques for vaping, but it seems to me that unless you want to hold the vapour in your mouth, roll it around and then try and pass it out through the nose, the most efficient way to get nicotine from an e-cig into your bloodstream is through inhalation (as per the reference from Bristol University above).

It's no small wonder people are confused, as there doesn't seem to be many, if any, scientific studies around this.

I also came across this thread on this Forum and it does further highlight the level of confusion . . . . . http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/82650-lungs-versus-mouth.html

(I'm very new to vaping, using Myepack Starter Kit, and what I'm finding is that I appear to get better nicotine uptake through inhaling rather than solely just holding the vapour in my mouth. The latter also has made my mouth and throat feel sore).

 

[Cearvox]

I vape by mouth inhaling for a few seconds then taking a deep breath to get it all in my lungs. i usually get a pretty good dose of nicotine after a few minuets

 

[sunnata]

This is a very interesting thread and Im looking forward to see some comments and possibly some real data.

First time I heard about nicotine absorption being different with e-cigs was this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html

4. E-Cigarette vapor is a water-based mist and not smoke. This has two main consequences:
a. The droplet size in vapor is ten times the particulate size in smoke (10 microns vs 1 micron). This means that cigarette smoke penetrates far more deeply into the lungs, travelling deep into the smallest passageways. Vapor cannot go anywhere near as deep, and this means that nicotine is not available so easily from the lungs, and is obtained more slowly.
b. It is likely that just as much nicotine is absorbed by the mucous membranes in the mouth and nose as within the lungs. In fact for maximum nicotine delivery, all three need to be employed: mouth, lungs, nose - otherwise all the nicotine cannot be delivered.

I believe the above quote refers to the following study:

Nicotine delivery per puff
A 35 mL puff from the Ruyan® V8 delivers only 10% of the nicotine obtained from a similar puff of a Marlboro regular cigarette. Deeper 50 mL puffs from the Ruyan V8 delivers only slightly more nicotine.

Particle size distribution

Particle size was approximately 0.04 microns (countmedian diameter or CMD). A second laboratory confirmed that CMD was below their cutoff of 0.1 micron. CMD of tobacco smoke was much greater, at 0.15 to 0.25 microns, though measured on a different instrument.

Chemical composition.
The Ruyan V8 yielded >300 (35 mL) puffs of mist:
82% PG, 15% water, 1% free-based nicotine, 2% particulates and flavours.
Mean puff weight was 0.88 mg.
Toxicology and safety of mist.Of 50+ priority-listed toxicants tested and found present in cigarette smoke, none was found in Ruyan V8 e-cigarette mist.

Nicotine absorption site:
The nicotine dose and particle size are too small to ensure either deposition in the alveoli or bronchioles or rapid nicotine absorption as in cigarette smoking

sources:
http://www.seeht.org/Laugesen_Apr_2009.pdf
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/DublinEcigBenchtopHandout.pdf

 

[SPACKlick]

Thanks for your reply .

As far as I'm aware, the vapour consists of a number of molecules (e.g PG, Nicotene, Flavouring) . . . these don't combine into one large molecule and so that means the nicotine is a 'free' molecule and therefore free to be absorbed by any hydrated cell wall. The PG and flavour molecules are much larger molecules and can't be absorbed through cell walls.

Except that Vapor and Smoke are made of droplets, large collections of molecules. The droplets in Vapor are larger (I'll have to hunt for a source but I think it's an order of magnitude larger). This means they don't get to parts of the lungs where absorption is as efficient as smoke does. So with vaping the vapor needs more time in the upper tract to deliver its nicotine and will always deliver the hit slower.

 

[CE3K]

First time I heard about nicotine absorption being different with e-cigs was this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html

Excellent, thank you Sunnata . . . . the link you've highlighted (written by Rolygate) explains things far better than anything I've seen up until now.

I now get it!!!

I'll try to change my technique and if possible, avoid lung inhalation altogether (well, give it a go for a few days at least )

 

[iamzg]

I use my lungs cause it just feels right, like a warm ray of sunshine hitting my back on a nice winter morning. Or something like that.