Status
Not open for further replies.

Seanchai

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,587
11,650
44
Georgia, USA
I want to ask one question...
What are the differences between middle level device (like SID, MVP2, Lavatube) and high-end level device (Provari) ?
I am very happy with my SID, I just want to know until what point, people would upgrade their device to high-end level.

Another question, is there any other high-end level brands like Provari? What are their names? Thanks!!!
Hv a great night!

Oh, boy... Pig, are you familiar with the expression "opened a can of worms"? That's what you just did with this question, but I'll try to answer it without offending the Provari owners on this thread, whom I like very much. :)

Let's look at this more broadly: *every* device we vape with is basically a lithium ion battery, a case of some sort that the battery fits into, a connection (usually a 510 connection, sometimes an 808 connection), and maybe some bells and whistles, like a variable voltage chip, battery overcharge/discharge protection, or an LED screen. That's it. Every single one of us is using some variation of that. Right?

Here is what you're paying for when you get a Provari - the time it took to develop it, the materials and workforce that made the casing and installed the chips, the fact that it's made in the USA, and a really nice warranty. And, mostly, the fact that you can say you own a Provari. :)

Those are all good things. I wouldn't turn a Provari down if someone gave it to me... I've held one, and it's a sexy piece of gear. But that said, there are plenty of mods on the market that do the exact same thing. The *main* thing people are paying for when they get a Provari is the US manufacturing (which is a good thing to want to support) and the warranty (which is great).

But contrary to what some (not all) Provari owners may claim, how it *functions* is not exclusive to Provari. It is, at its core, a casing with some chips in it that you slide a battery into, just like every other mod.

One thing that was a big deal when Provari first came out was the fact that their chip did not have pulse width modulation. Put simply, many variable voltage devices, your SID included, achieve that variable voltage by varying the interval that the mod fires at, instead of varying the actual *voltage*. The mod fires at a straight five volts (usually), but then turns off and on very quickly to lower the overall voltage to wherever you have it set. You can read more about this and see some charts here. Many people call this "the rattlesnake effect," because the rapid on-off-on-off pulsing sounds like a rattlesnake. Some people like it, many do not.

Provari was one of the first mods to have a straight voltage chip that does not pulse fire - if you set it to 3.7 volts, it fires continuously at 3.7 volts, not at 5 volts with pauses to keep you at 3.7.

However, there are now other, more affordable mods out there using the same chip (as well as some that are even more expensive than the Provari). The MVP2 can be had for $40 and has a straight voltage chip - it's one of the reasons I got one.

I'm not telling you any of this to bash Provaris or Provari owners - as I said, if someone offered me one, I'd take it! But the only things *exclusive* to Provari now are the name, the US manufacturing, and the warranty... and since you may or may not be in the US a year from now, the warranty may be of less use to you than if you do manage to stay here. (I'm sure they would still service it, but I'd be awfully nervous about shipping a mod that pricey all the way back here, waiting for it to be fixed, waiting for it to come all the way back to me, etc. A lot can happen when international mailing is involved, as I'm sure you know well.)

If you can afford a Provari and you want to support US manufacturing and have that "status symbol" and a really solid piece of gear, by all means, buy a Provari. But the only thing it will do that your SID doesn't is that continuous voltage, which you can now get from an MVP2 (which is an equally solid piece of gear) and many other mods out there.

When it comes to APVs/mods (aka the actual battery and casing you use to vape), at the end of the day, it really is just a battery with a case. Everyone will prefer and have the budget for different kinds, but me using an MVP2 doesn't make me "more advanced" than someone using a stick battery... it's still just a battery with a case.

Toppers (the tank/carto/clearo/RBA that your juice goes in) are a little different; you will often hear someone say that they "advanced" to a dual coil tank, or a carto-tank, or an RBA. This isn't because it's a contest, or because one vapes better than any other (again, everyone has different preferences). It's because each of those things has a learning curve, and in the case of rebuildable atomizers, some safety concerns that you need to educate yourself about before diving in. Most of us start with cartomizers because most of us started with "cigarette like" devices. Cartos are easy, you just saturate the filler with liquid, screw it on and vape it. To use a tank, you have to learn about tanks (where the coil is, when to change it, how to change it, how to fill it). To use a carto-tank, you have to learn all of those things plus how to slot a cartomizer (or which companies do the best carto-punching for how *you* like to vape). To safely use an RBA, you have to know a little bit about how Ohm's Law works, how to wrap a coil, how to install a coil, how to detect a short, how to fix a short, how to use a multimeter, etc. None of these things are *hard* to learn, nor as overwhelming as they sound, but there is a natural progression - most people learn how to fill a carto before they learn how to fill a tank, and then they build on that knowledge to, if they so choose, move to carto-tanks, RBAs, and the like. So that's why that's thought of as "advancing."

The only real "advancing" you can do when it comes to the *battery* is a variable voltage/variable wattage chip, a *better* VV/VW chip (one that doesn't use pulse width modulation), or a bigger battery.

The rest is, as they say, window dressing (i.e. the image you project).

And I say all of this as someone who hates the *look* of the MVP2 and immediately put a wrap on it to make it look like a TARDIS (spaceship in the British sci-fi show Doctor Who), and who chose my new RBA based 75% on what it did, but 25% on how cool it looks... so there's *nothing* wrong with caring about how your gear looks. Just be aware how much you're paying for looks/name, and how much for function. With the Provari, you get both, but you do pay for that.

(Edited to add): It's important to point out that Provari is not the only mod out there selling function *and* looks *and* name. Kato's Hammer is another example, and there are plenty, plenty more. My main point in telling you all this is price rarely equals better *function*. It may equal cooler looks, better machining, or a cool name, but a battery is a battery and a casing is a casing. The rest is bells and whistles (like whether it has a chip and what kind, or whether it looks like an awesome hammer of doom or is a hand carved pipe.)

I expect to be peevish, but still patient, about steeping the incoming bottle of Vanilla Tobacco.

Yeah, that's a long time for pre-shipment. Chances are it'll still show up tomorrow, anyway.

Judging by the amount of MBV juices that I already like, I'm sure that I will like the Vanilla Butternut. I haven't tried the Sticky Bun yet. I fell in love with Pumpkin Cookie right before it went into OOS limbo; I have a little less than half of a 30ml of it that I just can't bring myself to vape until it's back in stock.

I too expect to be peevish but relatively patient... I've got plenty of other juice to vape. :) I'm not worried about my order, it'll get here when it gets here. I've just been spoiled by MBV's supersonic shipping speed and was hoping it *might* be here by Friday... but next week is fine by me. A little tip... you can request OOS flavors as your free sample. I did that with Pumpkin Cookie this time around because I've been wanting to try it for a month or two now, but it's always OOS when I get paid. MBV can't *guarantee* they'll fill an OOS request of course, but they've always come through for me so far. The free sample on orders over $15 is 15ml, so it's enough to tide you over.
 
Last edited:

roonies

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 4, 2013
1,982
9,874
in the cat toy aisle
There's quite a lot of substance to Stranger Than Fiction, yeah. Dustin Hoffman plays a writing professor, too, so between him and Emma, there's some serious acting chops there. The two of them get all the funny lines and Will's the straight man, which I like much better than his attempts at humor. Maggie Gyllenhall plays Will's "love interest," but all of that is just a sub plot... the bulk of the movie is about Will's character discovering he's just a character and trying to figure out what to do about that, and Emma's character discovering her character really exists and she's holding this stranger's life in her hands... but a stranger whose every thought and action she preordains, so does he or does he not have autonomy, and which one of them is really in control?

It gets into some pretty heavy meaning of life stuff, but it kind of sneaks it in there while you're laughing at Emma saying "I'm out of inspiration. I'll never have an original thought again. Wait, do you know what I need?"
Assistant: "Coffee and cigarettes?"
Emma: "But besides that. Take me somewhere with some *death*."
(Later, standing in an ER)
Emma to a passing orderly: "Excuse me, where are the dying ones? I mean these ones are *great* they're *properly* ill and that's *fantastic*, but it looks like most of them will recover, do you have any that are, you know, *actively* dying?"
Assistant, dragging her away: "Sorry, sorry, she's a writer."

I so loved that movie and agree with you Sean on all of your points. This is a movie that took me to a place I didn't expect going in, and one that I had to see a second time to actually catch the nuances. In fact, I think I'm going to have to watch it again....soon!
 
Last edited:

Seanchai

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,587
11,650
44
Georgia, USA
Decided to make this a new post rather than edit the above again - the one exception to the "a mod is a mod is a mod" rule is the REO, and that's because it uses an entirely different technology/setup. Instead of a tank, your juice goes in a bottle that fits inside the casing, and you squeeze the bottle (also known as squonking) to feed the juice up the tube and into an atomizer (usually one built specifically for the REO called a Reomizer). It's basically a battery, a tank, and a dripping atomizer all in one. In that specific case, if you want something that vapes like a REO, you'll have to get a REO.

In every other case, though, what you're using on *top* of your battery (carto, tank, RBA, whatever) will affect your vape much more than the battery/casing itself... variable voltage/variable wattage excepted, of course.
 

Seanchai

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,587
11,650
44
Georgia, USA
I so loved that movie and agree with you Sean on all of your points. This is a movie that took me to a place I didn't expect going in, and one that I had to see a second time to actually catch the nuances. In fact, I think I'm going to have to watch it again....soon!

We have the same taste in movies, roonies... The Commitments, Once, Stranger Than Fiction... clearly if we ever meet in person, a movie night is on the agenda! :)
 

piggypinggy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oh, boy... Pig, are you familiar with the expression "opened a can of worms"? That's what you just did with this question, but I'll try to answer it without offending the Provari owners on this thread, whom I like very much. :)

Let's look at this more broadly: *every* device we vape with is basically a lithium ion battery, a case of some sort that the battery fits into, a connection (usually a 510 connection, sometimes an 808 connection), and maybe some bells and whistles, like a variable voltage chip, battery overcharge/discharge protection, or an LED screen. That's it. Every single one of us is using some variation of that. Right?

Here is what you're paying for when you get a Provari - the time it took to develop it, the materials and workforce that made the casing and installed the chips, the fact that it's made in the USA, and a really nice warranty. And, mostly, the fact that you can say you own a Provari. :)

Those are all good things. I wouldn't turn a Provari down if someone gave it to me... I've held one, and it's a sexy piece of gear. But that said, there are plenty of mods on the market that do the exact same thing. The *main* thing people are paying for when they get a Provari is the US manufacturing (which is a good thing to want to support) and the warranty (which is great).

But contrary to what some (not all) Provari owners may claim, how it *functions* is not exclusive to Provari. It is, at its core, a casing with some chips in it that you slide a battery into, just like every other mod.

One thing that was a big deal when Provari first came out was the fact that their chip did not have pulse width modulation. Put simply, many variable voltage devices, your SID included, achieve that variable voltage by varying the interval that the mod fires at, instead of varying the actual *voltage*. The mod fires at a straight five volts (usually), but then turns off and on very quickly to lower the overall voltage to wherever you have it set. You can read more about this and see some charts here. Many people call this "the rattlesnake effect," because the rapid on-off-on-off pulsing sounds like a rattlesnake. Some people like it, many do not.

Provari was one of the first mods to have a straight voltage chip that does not pulse fire - if you set it to 3.7 volts, it fires continuously at 3.7 volts, not at 5 volts with pauses to keep you at 3.7.

However, there are now other, more affordable mods out there using the same chip (as well as some that are even more expensive than the Provari). The MVP2 can be had for $40 and has a straight voltage chip - it's one of the reasons I got one.

I'm not telling you any of this to bash Provaris or Provari owners - as I said, if someone offered me one, I'd take it! But the only things *exclusive* to Provari now are the name, the US manufacturing, and the warranty... and since you may or may not be in the US a year from now, the warranty may be of less use to you than if you do manage to stay here. (I'm sure they would still service it, but I'd be awfully nervous about shipping a mod that pricey all the way back here, waiting for it to be fixed, waiting for it to come all the way back to me, etc. A lot can happen when international mailing is involved, as I'm sure you know well.)

If you can afford a Provari and you want to support US manufacturing and have that "status symbol" and a really solid piece of gear, by all means, buy a Provari. But the only thing it will do that your SID doesn't is that continuous voltage, which you can now get from an MVP2 (which is an equally solid piece of gear) and many other mods out there.

When it comes to APVs/mods (aka the actual battery and casing you use to vape), at the end of the day, it really is just a battery with a case. Everyone will prefer and have the budget for different kinds, but me using an MVP2 doesn't make me "more advanced" than someone using a stick battery... it's still just a battery with a case.

Toppers (the tank/carto/clearo/RBA that your juice goes in) are a little different; you will often hear someone say that they "advanced" to a dual coil tank, or a carto-tank, or an RBA. This isn't because it's a contest, or because one vapes better than any other (again, everyone has different preferences). It's because each of those things has a learning curve, and in the case of rebuildable atomizers, some safety concerns that you need to educate yourself about before diving in. Most of us start with cartomizers because most of us started with "cigarette like" devices. Cartos are easy, you just saturate the filler with liquid, screw it on and vape it. To use a tank, you have to learn about tanks (where the coil is, when to change it, how to change it, how to fill it). To use a carto-tank, you have to learn all of those things plus how to slot a cartomizer (or which companies do the best carto-punching for how *you* like to vape). To safely use an RBA, you have to know a little bit about how Ohm's Law works, how to wrap a coil, how to install a coil, how to detect a short, how to fix a short, how to use a multimeter, etc. None of these things are *hard* to learn, nor as overwhelming as they sound, but there is a natural progression - most people learn how to fill a carto before they learn how to fill a tank, and then they build on that knowledge to, if they so choose, move to carto-tanks, RBAs, and the like. So that's why that's thought of as "advancing."

The only real "advancing" you can do when it comes to the *battery* is a variable voltage/variable wattage chip, a *better* VV/VW chip (one that doesn't use pulse width modulation), or a bigger battery.

The rest is, as they say, window dressing (i.e. the image you project).

And I say all of this as someone who hates the *look* of the MVP2 and immediately put a wrap on it to make it look like a TARDIS (spaceship in the British sci-fi show Doctor Who), and who chose my new RBA based 75% on what it did, but 25% on how cool it looks... so there's *nothing* wrong with caring about how your gear looks. Just be aware how much you're paying for looks/name, and how much for function. With the Provari, you get both, but you do pay for that.

(Edited to add): It's important to point out that Provari is not the only mod out there selling function *and* looks *and* name. Kato's Hammer is another example, and there are plenty, plenty more. My main point in telling you all this is price rarely equals better *function*. It may equal cooler looks, better machining, or a cool name, but a battery is a battery and a casing is a casing. The rest is bells and whistles (like whether it has a chip and what kind, or whether it looks like an awesome hammer of doom or is a hand carved pipe.)



I too expect to be peevish but relatively patient... I've got plenty of other juice to vape. :) I'm not worried about my order, it'll get here when it gets here. I've just been spoiled by MBV's supersonic shipping speed and was hoping it *might* be here by Friday... but next week is fine by me. A little tip... you can request OOS flavors as your free sample. I did that with Pumpkin Cookie this time around because I've been wanting to try it for a month or two now, but it's always OOS when I get paid. MBV can't *guarantee* they'll fill an OOS request of course, but they've always come through for me so far. The free sample on orders over $15 is 15ml, so it's enough to tide you over.
WOW!!! Thanks Sean, learned a lot. It took me long time to read :D Now I know why Provari has so many haters.....
How can you know so many informations?? LOL
I love u, dad


Sincerely
Your son.
 

piggypinggy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
We have the same taste in movies, roonies... The Commitments, Once, Stranger Than Fiction... clearly if we ever meet in person, a movie night is on the agenda! :)

Thanks can I ask one more question please,
What is the difference between devices which look like a pen and devices which look like a box?? (MVP2)
i love u
 

Seanchai

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,587
11,650
44
Georgia, USA
I'm waiting not patiently for my max VG juices to steep already. I sniff them everyday. Lol its been awhile since I've been doing that.
And I'm still deathly afraid to go near my vanilla butternut. I may have to pif/sell it. Butter. Not squash! Butter. :(

Steep, VG juices, STEEP! And I was serious about taking that Vanilla Butternut off your hands if you do decide to pif it/sell it. I won't have any cash in paypal till next month, but I can scrounge up postage for a swap. :)
 

Miarose

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 27, 2013
3,458
16,474
West Chester, PA
At least with reos there's no wires or chips to break!
You forgot all the mech mods seanchai :( like I think stone uses a nzonic? clone and unos with his gg and ones he makes !
As pretty in pink the provari mini is, it wouldn't have given me the kinda of vape I was looking for. REO saved me.
 

Seanchai

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,587
11,650
44
Georgia, USA
Thanks can I ask one more question please,
What is the difference between devices which look like a pen and devices which look like a box?? (MVP2)
i love u

No difference, just a different look. The reason the MVP2 in particular looks like a box is because it has a big 2300mah battery in it, which means it'll last 23 hours or so of moderate vaping on a single charge. Most box mods (but not all) are boxy to accommodate bigger/more batteries.
 

Miarose

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 27, 2013
3,458
16,474
West Chester, PA
Steep, VG juices, STEEP! And I was serious about taking that Vanilla Butternut off your hands if you do decide to pif it/sell it. I won't have any cash in paypal till next month, but I can scrounge up postage for a swap. :)

I'm gonna take pics of me pouring it down the drain and mail that to you. LOL
It smells good. It just tasted like I ate a butter dinner.
 

piggypinggy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
No difference, just a different look. The reason the MVP2 in particular looks like a box is because it has a big 2300mah battery in it, which means it'll last 23 hours or so of moderate vaping on a single charge. Most box mods (but not all) are boxy to accommodate bigger/more batteries.

Thank you so much Sean, appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Seanchai

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,587
11,650
44
Georgia, USA
At least with reos there's no wires or chips to break!
You forgot all the mech mods seanchai :( like I think stone uses a nzonic? clone and unos with his gg and ones he makes !
As pretty in pink the provari mini is, it wouldn't have given me the kinda of vape I was looking for. REO saved me.

Mech mods are easy (the Hammer is a mech mod, actually, so technically I touched on them a bit): Metal tube, supply your own batteries and chips, and as with RBAs, learn enough to not blow yourself up. ;)

But Pig is new to all of this, so I was trying to give him an overview without overwhelming him with info.

Bottom line, Pig, you can spend *ridiculous* amounts of money chasing the perfect mod... and there's nothing wrong with that, provided a) you can afford it, b) you know how to use what you're buying (i.e. don't buy a mech mod and try to vape it at 20 watts without at least knowing the amp limit of your battery and putting a fuse in there) and c) you're willing to tell yourself when to stop. The classifieds here are *full* of gear that people have moved past in their vaping journey, but they're also full of purchases that people regretted because they didn't research what they were getting first, and now they're trying to recoup a loss. Don't buy expensive just to have expensive (especially if you can't afford it) and don't buy cheap just because it's cheap... when and if you want to get something to supplement your SID, research, think about it, research some more, ask questions on the boards, research some more, and when you're sure, *then* buy... whether it's cheap or expensive.

And Mia, if you pour that Vanilla Butternut down the sink I will *hunt you down*! ;)
 

roonies

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 4, 2013
1,982
9,874
in the cat toy aisle
Well Sam...it's official....you win the prize for single photo posted the most times in one thread on the same day!! :)

yquqypet.jpg


sent from my Limited Edition Monkey Island™ Talking Head Voodoo Doll named Murray®
 

roonies

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 4, 2013
1,982
9,874
in the cat toy aisle
uh....you're not suggesting we're OLD or anything like that are you??? :shock:


okay I wont try, I am just curious of how nicotine taste :D
Thank you so much guys, u guys are like my grandma and grandpa, I remember when I was young, they smoke 1~2pack a day but keep telling me don't try cigarette while they were holding cigarette on their fingers XD
I love u all, grandpas and grandmas LOL
 

Mowgli

Runs with scissors
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 25, 2013
8,723
36,953
Taxachusetts
I want to ask one question...
What are the differences between middle level device (like SID, MVP2, Lavatube) and high-end level device (Provari) ?
I am very happy with my SID, I just want to know until what point, people would upgrade their device to high-end level.

Another question, is there any other high-end level brands like Provari? What are their names? Thanks!!!
Hv a great night!

Futura is working out the last of it's bugs V1.0 (DNA20 in a tube)
Now that the DNA 30 is reality they'll be working on a V2.0 methinks

Some peeps like the Reo. I never tried it. I like my VTR for a box mod.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread