Musing-My thoughts on what's to come-or not

[DingerCPA]

@mattiem, no, but it was still a bit uncomfortable for me. I just waited until he got up to hit again.....

 

[mattiem]

@mattiem, no, but it was still a bit uncomfortable for me. I just waited until he got up to hit again.....

Maybe it will be a learning experience for him so the next time he sees it he will know what it is and won't freak out.

I am sorry that your outside vaping was spoiled for a bit but you may have done some good without even realizing it.

 

[DingerCPA]

Maybe it will be a learning experience for him so the next time he sees it he will know what it is and won't freak out.

I am sorry that your outside vaping was spoiled for a bit but you may have done some good without even realizing it.

Not worried. I do try to be considerate - and it was quite windy (blowing his way). I won't lose any sleep over it

 

[DC2]

I was OUTSIDE for God's sake! WHERE will we be able to vape?

Here is the quote from Godber himself...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger

I imagine that most of us here know full well that our target must be, in the long-term, the elimination of cigarette smoking…… We may not have eliminated cigarette smoking completely by the end of this century, but we ought to have reached a position where a relatively few addicts still use cigarettes, but only in private at most in the company of consenting adults.

 

[mattiem]

Here is the quote from Godber himself...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger

Thank you for posting this link DC2. Very interesting reading although it does make my blood boil.

I imagine that most of us here know full well that our target must be, in the long-term, the elimination of cigarette smoking…… We may not have eliminated cigarette smoking completely by the end of this century, but we ought to have reached a position where a relatively few addicts still use cigarettes, but only in private at most in the company of consenting adults.

And once they accomplish the above agenda I see this coming:

I imagine that most of us here know full well that our target must be, in the long-term, the elimination of Vaping…… We may not have eliminated vaping completely by the end of this century, but we ought to have reached a position where a relatively few addicts still use PV's (e-cigs), but only in private at most in the company of consenting adults.

 

[SomeTexan]

To those that believe we should only vape where smoking is allowed, Please reconsider. If we vape in a considerate way out in public it gives us an opportunity to educate the general public. I know that there are some folks that will hate us no matter what but we need to reach those with an open mind to the possibilities. This one device has the potential to totally wipe out smoking and save future generations from the health threat of cigarettes.

I have to very strongly disagree with this. People vaping where smoking isn't allowed makes both sides hate us. Both sides see this as a way to skirt smoking laws. Smokers see us satisfying our vice where they can't satisfy theirs and non-smokers see us as polluting their so-smoking sanctuary. If you don't respect their right to not inhale your vapor, all you are doing is making enemies.

Case in point, I just got back from eating lunch. When I got seated, I set my iStick on the table and didn't touch in until I stood up to leave. The manager walked up to me at my car and not only thanked me, but gave me a full refund on the meal. He said I was the only person that he had come in and not start blowing clouds. While talking to him, several other customers that were leaving thanked me for my consideration. A couple showed interest, and I pointed them to this site, as well as a basic explanation as to what vaping is.

The moral is, if you don't respect their rights, they won't give a crap about yours. Respect what they believe and they just might be willing to listen to your side of the story. Blow a cloud at their children, well, around here you will get shot.

 

[mattiem]

This Godber was the worst busybody of them all and he had WHO eating out of his hand

His blueprint from 1975

THE ‘BLUEPRINT’ SUMMARY:

Demonize the tobacco industry. Eradicate all industry advertising. The tobacco industry will be portrayed as always evil, public health as always good. Public health is always right - anyone questioning public health will be smeared (argument ad hominem) as a tobacco industry shill or sympathizer/apologist, i.e., wrong by association.

Smoking will be punished through taxation and the removal of smoking-permitted areas. Any reference to smoking/smokers will always be negative and never positive. Smoking will always be referred to as abnormal behavior. Smoking will be depicted as a non-normal or abnormal behavior. Smokers would be depicted, in a wholly derogatory sense, as ‘nicotine addicts’: Smoking would be ‘reduced’ to no more than nicotine addiction. In short, nonsmokers are ‘superior’, smokers are ‘inferior’.

Those in education and public health will be the first to be brainwashed into antismoking, and should be ‘exemplars’ of ‘normal’, nonsmoking behavior. Those choosing to smoke should have their employment terminated in these ‘exemplar’ industries, to begin with.

Most interesting is that in the ensuing three-plus decades since the Godber Blueprint, the research themes, ‘findings’, ‘interpretations’, re-definitions, and policy demands ALL magically align, one by one, with the Blueprint.

Sadly we are fighting against the Godbers of the world for our right to Vape.

If you haven't already, Please join CASAA Become a CASAA Member . It doesn't cost you anything but a few seconds of your time but lets those that we are fighting against know that, yes, we will fight this time.

 

[mattiem]

I have to very strongly disagree with this. People vaping where smoking isn't allowed makes both sides hate us. Both sides see this as a way to skirt smoking laws. Smokers see us satisfying our vice where they can't satisfy theirs and non-smokers see us as polluting their so-smoking sanctuary. If you don't respect their right to not inhale your vapor, all you are doing is making enemies.

Case in point, I just got back from eating lunch. When I got seated, I set my iStick on the table and didn't touch in until I stood up to leave. The manager walked up to me at my car and not only thanked me, but gave me a full refund on the meal. He said I was the only person that he had come in and not start blowing clouds. While talking to him, several other customers that were leaving thanked me for my consideration. A couple showed interest, and I pointed them to this site, as well as a basic explanation as to what vaping is.

The moral is, if you don't respect their rights, they won't give a crap about yours. Respect what they believe and they just might be willing to listen to your side of the story. Blow a cloud at their children, well, around here you will get shot.

Thank you for taking time to read this thread. Like you I would never vape in a restaurant but sadly those that want to demonize vaping just like they did smoking think the ONLY place we should be allowed to vape is maybe in our own basements. There has to be a bit of give and take.

Would you have made this comment if you had been sitting on a secluded beach and were told it was not allowed. That is where we are headed and to me that is not right.

 

[SomeTexan]

Thank you for taking time to read this thread. Like you I would never vape in a restaurant but sadly those that want to demonize vaping just like they did smoking think the ONLY place we should be allowed to vape is maybe in our own basements. There has to be a bit of give and take.

Would you have made this comment if you had been sitting on a secluded beach and were told it was not allowed. That is where we are headed and to me that is not right.

A secluded beach is one thing. Are there masses of people or are you all alone? If there is no one to complain, no rules were broken. I know beaches that are non-smoking because of littering, not smoke. I've smoked on them, but I pocketed my butts, and threw them in the first trash can I came to.

Indoors, my house or a vape shop, that's it. Outdoors, not around crowds. I'll walk off and vape. People see the consideration and respect that. If you don't respect them, why should they respect you?

We are fighting a stigma that has been associated with us. To get around it, we will have to step lightly. The truth doesn't matter when they don't know it, all they have to go by is what they hear. When they see that you are considerate of them, you aren't making them mad. Mad people aren't reasonable people.

One of the biggest hurdles we have is alienating others with less than accepted vices. Smokers, {Other people}, even {Other stuff} heads. If you actually have the right to participate in your vice, why can't they? Ditch the double standard. Either the government has the right to tell us what we can or can't put in our bodies, or they don't. Period. As long as we are all in seperate groups, we are weak. As one, we have enough people to protect our rights. But you would have to understand that just because you believe they have the right, doesn't mean that you endorse what they are doing. As you posted earlier, that is how they turned people on smokers. A non-smoker that isn't anti-smoking is just a smoker, and thus a lesser human being. Food for thought. I don't do or endorse illegal drugs, but I can't fault someone that does. If they die from it, that's their choice. Just natural selection to me...

 

[mattiem]

I have read what you said and will reply SomeTexan but I have to think long and hard before I speak so will have to put some thought in my reply..

 

[Bigflyrodder]

I agree completely that we all need to garner support wherever possible and rally as a group. We need to speak up with our local constituents on up the line as far as we can to try and stem the tide that is coming but don't fool yourself, it is coming. There will be no escaping it, sooner or later someone will make an example that will be easy for others to follow and the dominoes will fall.

Yes the state and local governments want taxes from vaping and I don't think we can dodge that bullet for long. Yes the restrictions are starting to appear with Vaping being called out specifically as being restricted or banned in areas where people used to vape and say "I'm not smoking, I'm vaping" but we only have ourselves to blame for that. Yes big tobacco has is pushing hard into vaping because they see it as an emerging market with a generous revenue stream and who can blame them, that's all true. Yes, there will start to be other regulations but I for one support the idea of having juice vendors having their products tested and their manufacturing environments certified for our safety.

So, what do we do to prepare? Do we stock up on hardware, juice, DIY mixings, etc. and prepare for the vape-apocalypse? Many have been doing this for year already and frankly may not be a bad idea, I know I will personally stock up on flavorings if the push for "only tobacco flavored juice will be sold" starts to take hold but that may be as far as I go.

Hard to say what changes are coming but I don't think we can pretend they aren't coming anymore so screw your tinfoil hats on tight folks, it's gonna be a ride for sure!

 

[SomeTexan]

I have read what you said and will reply SomeTexan but I have to think long and hard before I speak so will have to put some thought in my reply..

It's a subject that leads to a lot of mixed opinions. And I understand that it can be hard to fully explain what you mean in text. I'm not 100% sure that I made the exact point I intended to... If you post something, I may question parts, but I'm not going to get mad. Everyone is intitled to an opinion, even if you think mine is stupid. And anyone is more than welcome to question my post. Elaborating might give a better understanding as to my train of thought.

 

[DC2]

A secluded beach is one thing. Are there masses of people or are you all alone?

What about all situations on a beach that lie between the two extremes you mention?

If there is no one to complain, no rules were broken.

What if people are complaining about something but they are entirely wrong in their reasons for doing so?

I know beaches that are non-smoking because of littering, not smoke.

If it was all about the littering, then why should vaping being included in such bans?

 

[Steamix]

If people become too zealous about a cause - any cause - liberty and tolerance go out the window real fast.
Ideology - any ideology - is supposed to serve the people, not the other way round. If the 'cause' takes precendence over common sense, things can get pretty ugly.
Don't believe me ? Flip open a history book at random and read a few pages...
But the zealots make useful idiots for those who truly hold the strings.
And regardless of having attained that power by ballot or by bullet, anything will be checked against three parameters :
- does it give me more power
- does it keep me in power
- does it fatten my bank account

At least one line item must have a 'yes' to it, else they couldn't care less about it - or you.

's been about 70 years since Charlie Chaplin made that speech - it has not lost one iota of its actuality ...

Prohibition didn't work. Fermentation is too common a biological process. Vaping is a tad more complex, but I have confidence in the ingenuity of the vaping community.
Apart from that, where there is a demand, there is a supply. Regardless of a commodity being declared legal or illegal, there's always someone willing to provide - for a price...

 

[SomeTexan]

What about all situations on a beach that lie between the two extremes you mention?

What if people are complaining about something but they are entirely wrong in their reasons for doing so?

If it was all about the littering, then why should vaping being included in such bans?

Well, rules are rules. If it is against the rules, and there is someone close enough to witness it, don't do it. Now, if more than half of the people there want to vape, this is a government for the people, by the people. Majority wins. Cops are supposed to protect our rights, and should they choose to ignore those rights, well, they are traitors. It is a delicate situation, and quite a few variables need to be factored in. If it was mainly kids around, I wouldn't do it. If it was spaced out groups of adults, well, that's your call.

They need to be educated. But have you ever tried to rationally explain something to someone that thinks they are protecting their kids? They are just going on what they have been force fed. Placate them, show them understanding and they will be more open to your "opinion." Blaming them for being lied to will just anger them and shut their minds.

Why else would they ban smoking on a beach? People fell for the anti-smoking propaganda, they will fall for anything. Until it is legal to drown stupid tools, they will keep on being stupid tools. You won't win them all over, but those with an IQ will be open to the truth.

 

[mattiem]

It's a subject that leads to a lot of mixed opinions. And I understand that it can be hard to fully explain what you mean in text. I'm not 100% sure that I made the exact point I intended to... If you post something, I may question parts, but I'm not going to get mad. Everyone is intitled to an opinion, even if you think mine is stupid. And anyone is more than welcome to question my post. Elaborating might give a better understanding as to my train of thought.

Yes it does. I have always been of the opinion that basically says live and let live. I try my very best to live my life as courteously as possible. I do see a very big difference between smoking/vaping and some of the other things you mentioned. Since we are not allowed to discuss those things on this forum all I can say is I have never known smoking/vaping leading anyone to robbing and even killing to get the money for those vices. Therein lies the difference but of course that is just my opinion.

I try my best to see all sides of a problem and then give my opinion only if asked to do so. Never ever would I think your opinion or anyone's opinion as stupid. Sadly we live in a world where so many folks think their opinion is the only way without trying to looks at all sides. That, I see, is what has gotten us to where we are today.

We are fighting for this life saving opportunity to leave the smokes behind. It just plain works. There are those that would take it away from us. I am pretty well set for the rest of my life so now I fight for those that are still to discover this amazing thing called vaping.

Yes, we need to be courteous but not to the point of just rolling over and letting the powers that be do whatever they want to do. If we hide away in our basements we will lose. We need to show the general public that what we are doing is not hurting them and is taking nothing from them. JMHO

 

[Robino1]

I know our members that have been here longer already know this but there are new members joining daily and finding their way around the forum. For those that are fairly new, I ask that you read this link: Why we don't allow drug talk | E-Cigarette Forum

It isn't a very long read. It does explain a few things.

Thanks!

 

[mattiem]

Thank you Robino

 

[SomeTexan]

Yes it does. I have always been of the opinion that basically says live and let live. I try my very best to live my life as courteously as possible. I do see a very big difference between smoking/vaping and some of the other things you mentioned. Since we are not allowed to discuss those things on this forum all I can say is I have never known smoking/vaping leading anyone to robbing and even killing to get the money for those vices. Therein lies the difference but of course that is just my opinion.

I try my best to see all sides of a problem and then give my opinion only if asked to do so. Never ever would I think your opinion or anyone's opinion as stupid. Sadly we live in a world where so many folks think their opinion is the only way without trying to looks at all sides. That, I see, is what has gotten us to where we are today.

We are fighting for this life saving opportunity to leave the smokes behind. It just plain works. There are those that would take it away from us. I am pretty well set for the rest of my life so now I fight for those that are still to discover this amazing thing called vaping.

Yes, we need to be courteous but not to the point of just rolling over and letting the powers that be do whatever they want to do. If we hide away in our basements we will lose. We need to show the general public that what we are doing is not hurting them and is taking nothing from them. JMHO

I agree with you 100%. There is no need to roll over and take it, but we need to be thought of better before we can start walking all over bs rules. One guy blowing clouds in a crowd is causing damage to our image that will take 100's of courteous vapers to change. Look at {Moderated}. It's taken years and our government still denies the medical value. Even though it has been proven. The hippie movement set {Moderated} laws back 40 years, simple as that. A few vapers that just don't care about others around us will do the same to us.

Now, I'm not gonna lie, if vaping was outlawed, I would be an outlaw. Put that stigma on me and I will live up to it. I am talking violence to anyone against it. Walk on my rights, I won't care about yours. Lol, I'm a gun toting redneck that loves a good fight, and don't mind dying for a cause I believe in. How can you do any less and still call yourself an American?

 

[SomeTexan]

I know our members that have been here longer already know this but there are new members joining daily and finding their way around the forum. For those that are fairly new, I ask that you read this link: Why we don't allow drug talk | E-Cigarette Forum

It isn't a very long read. It does explain a few things.

Thanks!

There is the problem right there. Our vice is ok, but another one isn't. Either we have the right to make our own choices or we don't. Period. Let the government walk on someone else's rights and they won't care when the government comes for yours. If you can discriminate against them, what makes you think you deserve any better?