Muted flavor?

[Halcyon2501]

I'm having trouble getting decent flavor from my vape. I get plenty of vapor production, but the tastes are hardly noticeable. I'd love any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong.

I run Protank 2s with rebuilt heads using 30 gauge Kanthal, wrapped in 1/16" diameter microcoils with organic cotton wick. The heads come out to around 1.5-1.7 ohms. I use a single wick through the coil, rather than having additional "flavor wicks" sitting on top of the coil like the stock heads use. My most common juices are Mt. Baker's Red Apple and Green Apple, at a 65% PG / 35% VG mix. I've tried running it at 6-15 watts, and there doesn't seem to be much difference, except in vapor production (I prefer a warmer vape, and usually run at around 11).

I know Protanks are famous for muting flavors, but it seems like I got better flavor from the stock heads. I haven't ruled out vaper's tongue either, but this has been going on for as long as I've been rebuilding heads - a couple months, at least. I don't have trouble tasting anything else.

The addition of Aerotank bases to my Protanks has created a marginal improvement, if I keep them dialed wide open. It's almost not worth mentioning.

Any ideas?

 

[Topacka]

Are these juices you're used to using with good results? With MBV I've noticed the need for added flavor shots on some flavors. Have you tried the juices on any other tanks? Have you tried any other juices in your tank? Have you tried steeping your juice?

 

[cliffy15]

If you prime the wicks with a bit of liquid before you fill the tank how does it taste?

Not wicking enough will cause burnt tastes. Heading too much will smother your flavor unless you get a lot of airflow.


Do your tanks flood occasionally or leave pure juice on the pin of your battery? Those are signs of too much juice...

All tanks require the right balance of airflow, wicking, and sometimes even vacuum.

 

[MamaTried]

do you keep a dripping atty or rda handy just to compare flavor? an atty of similar ohms is a good tool for comparison and to rule out vaper's tongue

 

[cliffy15]

One other thing, before you reinstall the head in the tank put it in the base, with some liquid (not a lot of liquid) on the wicks do a short burn and smell/taste the vapor. If it's good open but not in the tank you're probably having wicking issues...otherwise it probably has to do with something else in your build ... like hotspots or something of the sort

 

[cliffy15]

and this all assumes that you do not, in fact, have a case of vaper's tongue...

 

[Halcyon2501]

Topacka: Yeah, I've gotten better results with these flavors before I started rebuilding heads. I was considering getting the extra flavor shots. I've tried several flavors in these tanks, and they all have the muted flavor issue. I've trotted out an old Vivi Nova to do a comparison with, since it's the only other single coil clearo I have - I'll let you know the results. As far as steeping, I don't normally, but it takes me a while to go through my bottles, and I would assume the juice steeps while it's sitting in the container right? Or is there something special I need to do?

Cliffy: Priming the wicks doesn't seem to make a difference. I don't get burnt tastes, unless I jack the wattage up to 15, and even then it's just a hint. I haven't had flooding/gurgling issues since I started rebuilding, but I do get a bit of juice left on the battery pin with each tank (a very small amount, I usually clean the pin when I change the tank). This indicates it's wicking too well? What do I do to clog it a bit - stuff more cotton in the coil? I'll give the open burn a try and see what happens.

MamaTried: Sorry, no drippers or RDAs available. I haven't gotten to that stage yet.

 

[Halcyon2501]

Just tried the Green Apple in a Vivi Nova w/ a 2.5 ohm stock head @ 8 watts. Same result. Less flavor, in fact.

 

[ValHeli]

I know Protanks are famous for muting flavors..........
Any ideas?

There's your answer. Try dripping or better yet a bottom fed mod like a Reo. You won't regret it.

 

[Topacka]

There's your answer. Try dripping or better yet a bottom fed mod like a Reo. You won't regret it.

Edit: I would also suggest this for maximum flavor, but this is not a solution to the current problem.


Halcyon: When you rebuild your head, do you make sure to have a slightly loose cotton wick in your micro coil? If it's too tight I've found it causes all sorts of problems.
But from what you said, you're not getting flavor from your vivi nova either, it could be vaper's tongue, too little flavor in your juice, or not steeped long enough. Ruling out vapers tongue because there is nothing you can do but wait. Also fruit liquids don't tend to need much steeping time. But yes, you just leave it alone for hours/days/weeks in a dark place.

My immediate attempt to fix the problem would be to try a rebuild and use as little wick as you have to. Just from experience that has worked for me.

 

[TheJakeBailey]

I'm just throwing this out there. Flavor is probably the biggest thing to me, and I ran through a lot of different toppers in the hunt for better flavor. I could list them, but let's just say it included the protank. lol I was NEVER satisfied in that regard, until I tried a properly primed, tanked carto. After clearos, it was like somebody hit me in the mouth with a flavor hammer. lol (that doesn't sound good, but it is!) I have drippers, but I don't take them out of the house. Messy, inconvenient, etc. For out and about, all day long, awesome flavor, the tanked carto is the way to go. The ONLY down side that I can think of ofter three months of using them, is that they can't be rebuilt. But I'm getting an average of 1-3 weeks per carto depending on the juice, so I can live with that.

If you aren't interested, cool, say no more. lol If you are, Baditude has some great blogs on cartos. If you want to see what other successful carto users think, check out this thread. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tanks.html?highlight=anybody+still+using+cart

 

[cliffy15]

it doesn't sound like you're even close to flooding, then, and your setup is well balanced.

Here's one of those "low hanging fruit"potentials: check your juice...

... I've done this recently (and I've been vaping for about 18 months or so) while getting to the bottom of a couple of bottles... If you're not shaking your juice well between transfers, you may end up with what smells like perfectly good juice but is sorely lacking in flavor even though it produces decent vapor.

Happened to me a couple of weeks ago and a new bottle of liquid made a huge difference.

 

[Huckleberried]

Hmm. Well, if it's a new coil and isn't gunked up already and wicking isn't the issue, my only thought is the tank. I use a protank 2 for my ADV and occasionally run into this. I wash out my tank when everything else is working well. Sounds ridiculous as a fix, but I do this regularly and it works if I can't think of anything else it could be.

 

[Halcyon2501]

Yeah, I always shake well before a fill. I'm currently trying less wick; I have a habit of stuffing as much as will fit through the coil as a way to avoid letting juice leak through into the head through the wick ports, and I'm probably overdoing it. I've got one rewicked now that pretty much fills the coil, but has enough play to move back and forth through the coil at the slightest touch. I'll let you know how that turns out.

I've considered cartos, but haven't made the jump yet. I like the cheapness and variability of rebuildable heads, which is pretty much what has kept me with the Protanks thus far. Although, if cartos are the most maintenance free method, that might trump my current setup.

 

[Halcyon2501]

Hmm. Well, if it's a new coil and isn't gunked up already and wicking isn't the issue, my only thought is the tank. I use a protank 2 for my ADV and occasionally run into this. I wash out my tank when everything else is working well. Sounds ridiculous as a fix, but I do this regularly and it works if I can't think of anything else it could be.

Yeah, I have to wash my tank every couple of fills, else it gets a slightly metallic or even more muted taste.

 

[Christopherja]

I'm currently trying less wick; I have a habit of stuffing as much as will fit through the coil as a way to avoid letting juice leak through into the head through the wick ports, and I'm probably overdoing it.

Let us know how that works.

I do a very similar build to yours on my PTs - 30 AWG, nano-coil (1.2mm), cotton wick, 1.8 - 2Ω - and I don't experience muted tastes. However, I do use very little cotton - as I have to with a 1.2mm diameter coil! - and this seems to help the flavour. When I was using "normal" diameter coils, I ran into the trouble of having too much wick, and the flavour was muted.

 

[cliffy15]

If you're already rebuilding and you're thinking of a switch to cartos I would suggest a carto rba/rta ...

I made the switch from protanks to a Sophia by Leo a little over a month ago and they rock ...

They're not cheap though. and it uses a NR-R-NR wire setup in a ceramic cup.

It took me a bit to learn to set up just how I want it but haven't looked back since. my Kanger tanks just sit around gathering dust now.