My 1st and LAST order with VAPORSTATION

[muttSRT]

I have to say I fully agree with mini_art on this. If a vendor is going to suggest PIF, perhaps ONLY do it after it's confirmed NOT bad.

Done this way, the vendor can even offer to have it shipped wherever the customer likes (since they have to pay to send it somewhere anyway.) This will save the person deciding to PIF it the 3rd shipping costs and will help the vendor show true character on both sides.

just my - take it or leave it for whatever it's worth

Not a bad suggestion, but the OP refuses to spend the $2 it would take to send it back. All this says to me is, #1 I dont like your juice, and know you dont refund and #2 I wont send it back to be tested because I know its not tainted, but rather my taste buds.

If I thought for one moment that I received tainted juice from ANY vendor, I would send it back. PERIOD. If its tested and found to be tainted, I am sure they would not only replace the liquid, but also refund part of the shipping or throw in some freebies for the wasted time and money. If its found to be MY taste buds and the juice is perfectly fine, I would expect to have to pay shiping fees AGAIN to have it sent back to me.

And for the record, I personally do not use VS as my main source of juice. That is well documented here on ECF. Not because I dont like his liquid, but I have others that I like better. Had this been Tasty Vapor, VaporBomb, V4L or ANY other vendor here, I would be saying the same thing. The OP has a problem with the liquid, The vendor has offered to check it out, just send it back. Whats the problem here? Isnt that what the vendor should do? Does anyone think that the vendor should just automatically resend the order and not get the original liquid back?

As far as the PIF goes, being a member myself, I have NO problem with the OP offering up the juice for trade. Not because I trust the OP, but because I trust Eric and VS. More than likely, the juice just needs time to settle down. Its a fresh mixed juice, not a premix being resold by Eric.

 

[muttSRT]

Mutt I do agree, the juice is probably not bad, I know that many use VS juice, I have used it myself.

My point is, if you bought some eggs that you thought might be going bad, you cant really tell to look at them or smell them, but you think they could be bad.

You contact the grocery and they just tell you to give them away to a homeless shelter.

would you do it , or just pitch them.

I personally would pitch them.

OK, I see what you are saying. BUT, say i was the farmer and not the grocery store guy. I KNOW that the eggs in question were fresh layed and NOT bad. I would tell you to pass them on to the homeless shelter OR bring them back for some different eggs.

Eric has asked that the liquid be sent back. Its up to the OP now to decide what to do.

 

[Drozd]

you know given the OP's complaint about the juice that it tastes like chemicals and perfume and wondering if it went bad in the heat from shipping...

I'm pretty willing to bank that the juice isn't bad..

first in reguards to temperature....most juice suppliers cite 60 degrees for juice storage...they tend to leave out the part about that being celcius...which in reality for us in the US is 140 degrees...I doubt very much that a package of juice is going to hit 140 or be sustained in that temperature for very long....

Secondly, chemical and perfume taste is a well documented issue with some juices and even more so with some cartomizers (not that I know what equipment the OP is using)..

the perfume thing has been pretty well discussed and beaten to death in this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/79869-what-perfume-taste.html with some people having different views of even the same juice... there are some aroma chemicals that are used in some juices that are taken from rose and other flowers that would give a perfume taste...

I can see fresh mixed juice that has been subject to somewhat elevated temperatures being somewhat more "aromatic" in this regard..

but it doesn't seem to fit with every other mass report of bad juice I've heard of where something in the juice seperated and it looked as if something alien was growing in the bottle...(ie the JC infamous green growth juice)

 

[mini_art]

He should send it back , it is that simple,

But Mutt, VS is not the farmer. I doubt he distills his own nic, formulates his own PV and VG and distills and creates his own flavorings ethol malto etc.
VS is a custom mixer. He doesnt create the chemicals he is using.

I will say it again , I highly doubt that there is something wrong with the liquid. However
it is remotely possible that there could be.

 

[sensay]

reading through all the posts here and getting to know Eric through the weekly chats I have to say it sounds to me like Eric was positive that the juice was not to the OPs liking and not bad juice. That would be the only reason he would suggest pif. I agree some of the vs juices can be a bit perfumy but not in a bad way. I like them. But I definatly can see it would be an either you love it or you hate it kind of thing. I usually dont post on these kind of things but I have spent many nights chatting in the vs chat getting to know Eric along with many other pifers. He is a generous supplier and caring guy!

 

[mini_art]

I dont think anyone is blaming Eric here Sensay, I am just objecting to him directing the OP to PIF when the OP has a claim of bad liquid.

 

[tiburonfirst]

not having used this vendor i can't give an opinion either way as to his cs.
but if the temperatures in the west [tx, ca] have been anything like what we have had here in va then there is a good chance of spoilage.
usps trucks are not refrigerated and with temps at 100 degrees it must have been boiling hot inside those trucks. so something could have spoiled very easily.
i understand vendors have to be careful and customers have tried to get second orders for free, as mutt states, but why not, in the case of a first time customer, offer to resend ONE flavor to let the customer see if it is a matter of taste or if something did indeed spoil.
and no, if there is the slightest doubt it should not show up in pif.

 

[muttSRT]

He should send it back , it is that simple,

But Mutt, VS is not the farmer. I doubt he distills his own nic, formulates his own PV and VG and distills and creates his own flavorings ethol malto etc.
VS is a custom mixer. He doesnt create the chemicals he is using.

I will say it again , I highly doubt that there is something wrong with the liquid. However
it is remotely possible that there could be.

Well kinda...he's the farmer in that the "egg" is produced in his lab. If it was a case of bad ingredients, the VS threads about bad juice would be many. But thats not the case. Its just one lonely post. Which to me says that the OP didnt like it. We both agree that more than likely the juice is not bad, but the only way to be sure, is if they step up and send it back.

 

[Drozd]

not having used this vendor i can't give an opinion either way as to his cs.
but if the temperatures in the west [tx, ca] have been anything like what we have had here in va then there is a good chance of spoilage.
usps trucks are not refrigerated and with temps at 100 degrees it must have been boiling hot inside those trucks. so something could have spoiled very easily.
i understand vendors have to be careful and customers have tried to get second orders for free, as mutt states, but why not, in the case of a first time customer, offer to resend ONE flavor to let the customer see if it is a matter of taste or if something did indeed spoil

but if the customer is unwilling to ship the juice in question back to even confirm that it's bad...then I don't think the vendor should be on the hook to resend anything either...

anytime I've heard of truely bad juice it's also been visually off....the "chemical and perfume" taste in lots of juice has been well documented enough to let anyone reasonably believe that this isn't a case of bad juice but customer's tastes..

 

[spaky]

I dont think anyone is blaming Eric here Sensay, I am just objecting to him directing the OP to PIF when the OP has a claim of bad liquid.

I think that posting it in PIF is a good option to find out if the juice is actually spoiled. Since the OP has already stated that he doesn't think that Eric would agree that the juice was bad, why not post it in PIF and state that he thinks that it is bad and ask for someone that likes the flavors he got to try them. That way a third party that knows what those flavors should taste like can try them.

 

[muttSRT]

not having used this vendor i can't give an opinion either way as to his cs.
but if the temperatures in the west [tx, ca] have been anything like what we have had here in va then there is a good chance of spoilage.
usps trucks are not refrigerated and with temps at 100 degrees it must have been boiling hot inside those trucks. so something could have spoiled very easily.
i understand vendors have to be careful and customers have tried to get second orders for free, as mutt states, but why not, in the case of a first time customer, offer to resend ONE flavor to let the customer see if it is a matter of taste or if something did indeed spoil

OR, why doesnt the OP just spend $2 and send all of it back? If its a temp thing, the bad or spoiled juice threads here would be many, but thats not the case. There is just one thread here where the OP "claims" the juice has spoiled. Like Drozd pointed out, the chances of that happening are very slim. The chemical taste is more than likely just the ingredients used to make the flavor.

The OP has made his point, Eric has come here on this thread and asked that the liquid be returned for testing. That should speak volumes about his customer service. When the OP refuses to send it back, Eric makes a suggestion that the liquid could be used in a PIF trade, which to me is an awesome idea. Being a member of the PIF group, I think its great that vendors here know about and send new members to the PIF subforum.

 

[muttSRT]

but if the customer is unwilling to ship the juice in question back to even confirm that it's bad...then I don't think the vendor should be on the hook to resend anything either...

anytime I've heard of truely bad juice it's also been visually off....the "chemical and perfume" taste in lots of juice has been well documented enough to let anyone reasonably believe that this isn't a case of bad juice but customer's tastes..

Somethings wrong if we are both fighting on the same side

 

[Drozd]

and no, if there is the slightest doubt it should not show up in pif.

let me play devils advocate here for a moment....

if that were the case...then no V4L juice should ever show up in PIF either...

because the exact and only complaints that the OP has with this juice are my exact complaints with almost all of V4L juice... a chemical and perfume taste...

 

[Drozd]

OR, why doesnt the OP just spend $2 and send all of it back? If its a temp thing, the bad or spoiled juice threads here would be many, but thats not the case. There is just one thread here where the OP "claims" the juice has spoiled. Like Drozd pointed out, the chances of that happening are very slim. The chemical taste is more than likely just the ingredients used to make the flavor.

even stranger that in a package of several juices all but one would be bad...and that temperature would play a part in the spoiling...is that one juice special (did it have AC)...

Somethings wrong if we are both fighting on the same side

lol ain't that the truth...

 

[DemonCowboy]

Not a bad suggestion, but the OP refuses to spend the $2 it would take to send it back. All this says to me is, #1 I dont like your juice, and know you dont refund and #2 I wont send it back to be tested because I know its not tainted, but rather my taste buds.

If I thought for one moment that I received tainted juice from ANY vendor, I would send it back. PERIOD. If its tested and found to be tainted, I am sure they would not only replace the liquid, but also refund part of the shipping or throw in some freebies for the wasted time and money. If its found to be MY taste buds and the juice is perfectly fine, I would expect to have to pay shiping fees AGAIN to have it sent back to me.

And for the record, I personally do not use VS as my main source of juice. That is well documented here on ECF. Not because I dont like his liquid, but I have others that I like better. Had this been Tasty Vapor, VaporBomb, V4L or ANY other vendor here, I would be saying the same thing. The OP has a problem with the liquid, The vendor has offered to check it out, just send it back. Whats the problem here? Isnt that what the vendor should do? Does anyone think that the vendor should just automatically resend the order and not get the original liquid back?

As far as the PIF goes, being a member myself, I have NO problem with the OP offering up the juice for trade. Not because I trust the OP, but because I trust Eric and VS. More than likely, the juice just needs time to settle down. Its a fresh mixed juice, not a premix being resold by Eric.

Mutt, i wasn't commenting on the OP's claim, i was merely commenting on the suggestion maybe as good save-face tactic vendors in this type of situation can use in the future.

the way i see it if the OP doesn't want to substantiate or debunk his claim by sending the juice back then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I don't know Eric, never met him, don't believe I've even traded 2 words w/ him. I don't have any reason to doubt his surety that it's untainted juice. I do however think that perhaps it was an error to suggest PIF when there's even a threat of it being bad.

that's y i made that suggestion - if vendors added that little tactic to their policies - it couldn't do anything but benefit everybody.

 

[tiburonfirst]

but if the customer is unwilling to ship the juice in question back to even confirm that it's bad...then I don't think the vendor should be on the hook to resend anything either...

..

i was talking about salvaging a customer relationship.
and i understand about sending stuff back, i had to do it with doa batteries. but believe me it leaves a bad taste. apparently that is a normal reaction from customers in general because all the large companies now pay for return shipping for defective merchandise.
to resend a small bottle of one of those flavors would have been maybe 2 bucks for the vendor but it would have gone a long way toward saving a future relationship [unless it was really the taste]

 

[Gammi]

I understand both sides here...and want to add that most of us have had experiences that make us sad with a vendor. If the vendor clearly states no refunds but offers to check out your beliefs that the juice maybe bad,,,spend the $ for your own piece of mind. I have done that in the past and once they checked out the item I ended up getting a replacement and nice surprise in the box, well worth the $ I spent to send it back. Have some faith in the vendor...if this person doesn't have good customer service they really do get eaten alive here on the forum....this person doesn't seem to have a bad reputation on this site.

I didn't like the suggestion for PIF...just for the fact that if it was bad juice but others have said that before me.

This is just my just my

 

[markarich159]

Eliquid, from any source, needs to be industry self-regulated, and the industry needs to do this in a hurry.
The burgeoning e-cig/eliquid industry has been around in the US now since 2007. In all that time I've never heard or seen one instance or shred of evidence or piece of datum, that suggests anything near good manufacturing practices(as defined by the FDA) existing in eliquid manufacture(except for Dekang and, although positive, that is still foreign source data/certfication).

Any other novel, newly marketed product of this intent(direct human inhalation) in North America would require extensive pre-marketing testing(which would include accelerated stability testing to properly ascertain expiration date and proper storage condition data) as well as strict manufacturing guidelines(such as cGMP to ascertain absolute lot to lot consistency). Anything short of this, although expensive & time-consuming, really is unacceptable considering the intended use. The industry can either choose to institute these measures voluntarily or have a governmental bureaucracy do it for them(at even greater expense and bureacratic handcuffing).

I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but, regardeless, it needs to be stated. After measures stated above are instituted, the source of issues such as these(chemical taste, off/bad lots, funny odors, etc...) can be quickly identified and the corrective measures(whatever they may be case by case) taken immediately.

 

[Shad0w]

Good to know that you think I am full of it.

Eric, AFTER THE POSTS HERE, said he would accept ONE bottle of juice, test it and let me know.
He said he would cover the cost of shipping that one bottle.

If he had done that initially, I would have been completely good with it.

I really like how you "going with your gut on this" exonerates Kevin immediately and leads you to believe I am up to something.
If you bothered to read, you would know, I never once asked for anything in return.
Sure sounds greedy and underhanded to me.....

Dunno about you, but it's regularly been in the 80's and 90's out my way for a bit now.
I am SURE that he sent out a great product.
I am also sure that it may have been damaged from heat during the journey from his place to mine.
I in no way blamed him for that.
I let the juices settle.
I refrigerated them upon receipt.
They sat as such until a couple days ago when I opened them for the first time.
I used them in fresh atties, a new one for each one.

There was one flavor that I got as a sample.
IT WAS THE ONE THAT WAS GOOD.
No perfumey or chemical undertone to the smell OR vape.

As for my sending him back a bottle for him to test against his control, I am happy to do that.
If it turns out that it is the way it is supposed to be, so be it.
At that point I will 100% know that VS liquids are not for me.

The entire point of this was not the juice though.

It was how I was responded to. I felt it was rude.
I don't expect anyone to blow sunshine up my a**,
but at least make some show of politeness or "caring" about the situation.
Even if you can't help the problem, you can help how the customer feels about it.

Do I know for a fact? No, and neither does the OP...he should send it back to Eric, like Eric asked him to do, if he thinks its bad, then send it back. I know Eric mixes his liquid fresh, so I highly doubt its bad or tainted. More than likely, the OP just doesnt like the juice. Not 100% sure, just going with my gut on this one.

Mini, I understand how PIF works, and what its all about, but try to keep in mind, that the majority of the people that show up for Eric's weekly give-aways are from PIF. A lot of the PIFers like and use VS juices. I dont know exactly what Eric said, but I am sure it was along the lines of "if you dont like the juice, there are no refunds, so maybe go to PIF and trade"...i am sure that if Eric thought the juice was bad or tainted, he would never suggest that someone just pass it along. Of course, I am only going off what I know about Eric and was not privvy to the entire conversation between the OP and Eric.

I fully understand that some juice just does not agree with everyone. What is the best most awesome to one, is hated by another. Case in point, I can not stand the AC from TV...its weak and has a funny taste to me. Do I think its bad juice? Not at all. There are too many people who love it. More likely, the case is there is something in the mix that just doesnt agree with me. I think that is probably the case with the VS juice that the OP received. Being fresh made, the OP should let the juice sit for a couple days and then try it again. If he feels that the juice is really bad or tainted, then by all means, send it back for Eric to check/test.

 

[juicefreak]

Eliquid, from any source, needs to be industry self-regulated, and the industry needs to do this in a hurry.
The burgeoning e-cig/eliquid industry has been around in the US now since 2007. In all that time I've never heard or seen one instance or shred of evidence or piece of datum, that suggests anything near good manufacturing practices(as defined by the FDA) existing in eliquid manufacture(except for Dekang and, although positive, that is still foreign source data/certfication).

Any other novel, newly marketed product of this intent(direct human inhalation) in North America would require extensive pre-marketing testing(which would include accelerated stability testing to properly ascertain expiration date and proper storage condition data) as well as strict manufacturing guidelines(such as cGMP to ascertain absolute lot to lot consistency). Anything short of this, although expensive & time-consuming, really is unacceptable considering the intended use. The industry can either choose to institute these measures voluntarily or have a governmental bureaucracy do it for them(at even greater expense and bureacratic handcuffing).

I know this is not a popular viewpoint, but, regardeless, it needs to be stated. After measures stated above are instituted, the source of issues such as these(chemical taste, off/bad lots, funny odors, etc...) can be quickly identified and the corrective measures(whatever they may be case by case) taken immediately.

i agree 1000%. we don't need to be passing around nic liquid willy nilly in the mail. Looking for an accident waiting to happen.

i've had juice that was bad from US vendors and they had NO PROBLEM sending another bottle (regardless of their canned policy) and were happy that i brought it to their attention. Many of us that have been vaping for over a year know the difference from preferred taste and bad juice. Remember the bad ecopure batch last year? What if ppl just sucked it up and didn't complain?

i had a bad battery from ecigsupply last year that chad (?) said not to mail back because it would stay ON. can you imagine if it was a whiney vendor that said, mail it back or kiss off? chad was wise enough to know that he and i would be responsible for possibly blowing up a plane or mail truck if that thing auto fired off on it's own. Just not worth the chance.

in the USA I'd be happy to mail anything back as long as it's SAFE to do so. I just got some off chemically juice from China and they wanted me to send it back. I'm choosing to chuck it and eat it, because i'm not going to lie on a federal mail form about what it is to send it back.

cottage industries are not exempt from hazards. this has been discussed here many times and even ECF instated policies and questioned whether they need liability insurance themselves.

like i said earlier, a vendor either trusts his customers or he doesn't. I'm always grateful when i get an order and it hasn't spilled all over the mail carrier. To even thing of PIF for something that has any question of being bad... forget it.

and you're right markarich159, not a popular opinion, but it's one i also hold.