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clh2121

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"Choose from the best flavor companies, including:
FlavourArt, Signature (The Perfumer's Apprentice), Flavor West, LorAnn Oils, Capella Flavor Drops, Hangsen, Nature’s Flavors, Flavors Express, Tasty Puff, Jungle Flavors, and Inawera Flavors.
Wholesale pricing available for many DIY flavors"

From ecigexpress's website... Signature is rebranded TFA
 

Porksmuggler

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In my next batch I will add "Ripe Banana", if I can find the vendor again. I saw this some time ago, but forgot to take a note. I also have Black Honey tobacco by TFA, but I have no idea what the difference between this and the one made by Signature could be.
Cheers.

TFA Ripe Banana is my favorite out of a few different banana flavorings. Lorann Naturals Banana, TFA Banana Nut Bread, and TFA Banana Cream just don't quite have the strength. The Signature line is also TFA, at least I've seen it mentioned several times on the forum.

The Ripe Banana is a syringe and plastic tank killer, for what it's worth.
 
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andreashadji

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Even though this is the BB clone thread - I am unaware of a GJ clone thread --- here it goes.

Understand this, the recipe is not a GJ clone by any stretch of imagination. I took some of the mixes I found online, fooled around with them (sure enough I call it Monkey Juice) and came up with this. Mind you that GJ is most likely the same mix as BB with some banana flavor of sorts added to it. I also don't believe that both recipes are truly complex with 6 or more different flavors.....

To your NIC base line add:

Mild Black by TFA 6%
Black Honey Tobacco by Signature (EcigExpress) 5 %
Banana Nut Bread by TFA 5%

Important! I am targeting a 50/50 blend. This creates just the right amount of sweetness. I tried this in 70/30, but did not like that at all. As a matter of fact all my juices are for 50/50.

In my next batch I will add "Ripe Banana", if I can find the vendor again. I saw this some time ago, but forgot to take a note. I also have Black Honey Tobacco by TFA, but I have no idea what the difference between this and the one made by Signature could be.

Have fun.

Cheers.

Thanks for sharing mate!i am also trying a 70/30 juice with tpa black honey tobacco and some ready made banana juice.steeping day 2...will let you know...tried before with tpa banana cream yet the cream seems too strong in the mix so no go there...


Sent from my Kayfun lite + using Tapatalk
 

HappiVappi

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Thanks for sharing mate!i am also trying a 70/30 juice with tpa black honey tobacco and some ready made banana juice.steeping day 2...will let you know...tried before with tpa banana cream yet the cream seems too strong in the mix so no go there...


Sent from my Kayfun lite + using Tapatalk

Steeping with an Ultrasonic cleaner or with a crock pot will cut down the "wait" time to about 4-6 hours.....


Cheers
 

HappiVappi

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Regarding Black Honey Tobacco "Signature" vs Black Honey Tobacco "TFA". Though they smell very similar the TFA seems to have a stronger scent. The Signature is almost clear, just a slight yellowish tint. The TFA is a dark amber.

Maybe the TFA version has some coloring added to make sure that the re-branded flavors have a reason to exist.....

Cheers.
 

HappiVappi

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I've found the ultrasonic cleaner greatly decreases steep time but, you still need 3-4 days after with tobacco mixes. That's like a 70% decrease which is huge but, not immediate..

My cleaner does 50 minute cycles and heats.

I am not going to start an argument here, but there is an gigantic thread here on ECF on UC steeping and on the last 30 pages or so fellow member MikePetro went through a lengthy blind test in which I participated. Long story short, there is very little difference in steeping in a UC vs steeping in a crock pot. We also concluded that this type of steeping those 3-4 days you are mentioning is not making a dent any more.

Back to BB' clones I'd say....don't want to hijack this thread.

Cheers.
 
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ccwaters

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Ah okay. Sorry I thought it was more of a weak flavoring, not a premixed juice. Reading what was written again I just missed that.

It is only on site as a premixed juice, this is not a premixed juice, purchase any of the flavorings, add into notes you want the Black Jack flavoring. As I said it is not a concentrate but I've mixed it as low as 5% and it is still quite tasty.

I purchased two ounce bottle of Holy Vanilla, added in notes to make one the Black Jack.
 
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Porksmuggler

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Whoa, you actually enjoy TFA Ripe Banana? That was one of the worst tasting flavorings I've ever tried. Different strokes, and what not.

Well, I'm assuming it's TFA, it was a freebie from the nice folks at Wizard Labs, and their bottles don't actually indicate brand. I have a habit of buying all the brands of a particular flavor at the same time, then mixing each at 5%, and the Ripe Banana they threw in was better than all the other Banana flavors I actually ordered and paid for :)
 

EddieAdams

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Not arguing. How do you explain the continued color change after the UC? Did you test tobaccos? Individual tobacco or mixes?

I've ran quite a bit of liquid through my UC and without question it continues to evolve well after the UC cycle in both flavor and appearance. However, something that takes 2 weeks now only takes about 5-7 days depending on the ingredients.

If you put a fresh bottle of Casablanca(golden yellow) in a UC for an hour it doesn't come out an hour later glowing red orange and with the chocolate/cocoa nutty flavor popping out that only appears after a 2-3 week normal steep. It does however get there a lot sooner...like a week...

Sorry just my experience....
 

Porksmuggler

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^ I think I missed something, was someone claiming steeping doesn't do anything, because that's just silly.

I have unopened flavors kept out of light, heat, etc. that even change before mixed over a period of months, like Marshmallow, it's completely clear when ordered, but ends up a darker amber before I usually get around to using it. These organic compounds react with each other alone, they don't even need any externals sometimes to change.

Certain flavorings are guaranteed to change with steeping, regardless of the method, and other flavorings, not at all. It's more to do with their composition than the method used in my experience. Obviously though temperature threshholds or shelf life can be a factor at the extremes.
 

AmandaD

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Not arguing. How do you explain the continued color change after the UC? Did you test tobaccos? Individual tobacco or mixes?

I've ran quite a bit of liquid through my UC and without question it continues to evolve well after the UC cycle in both flavor and appearance. However, something that takes 2 weeks now only takes about 5-7 days depending on the ingredients.

If you put a fresh bottle of Casablanca(golden yellow) in a UC for an hour it doesn't come out an hour later glowing red orange and with the chocolate/cocoa nutty flavor popping out that only appears after a 2-3 week normal steep. It does however get there a lot sooner...like a week...

Sorry just my experience....

I also partook in that test. It's true that there's very little difference between the UC and the crockpot, because the issue is in the end about heat - although there was some slight difference, with the UC winning out. However, we did NOT test further than that - we didn't test leaving them alone for several days after crockpot/UC, vs a control per se. Our control was never steeped, obviously, and the results were measured after a couple of weeks traveling around the country (make sense?) I also find that even after a forced steep, tobaccos continue to improve over the next few days.
 

HappiVappi

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I also partook in that test. It's true that there's very little difference between the UC and the crockpot, because the issue is in the end about heat - although there was some slight difference, with the UC winning out. However, we did NOT test further than that - we didn't test leaving them alone for several days after crockpot/UC, vs a control per se. Our control was never steeped, obviously, and the results were measured after a couple of weeks traveling around the country (make sense?) I also find that even after a forced steep, tobaccos continue to improve over the next few days.


Now I remember....we both had a hard time with the 12mg Danny mixed. In the last 4 weeks or so I cut down all my juices to 3mg...speaking of NIC. Some people don't realize that the NIC is always part of the flavor profile. It also changes color quite a bit over time.

This is why IMHO BB and GJ will never see the light in a 0 mg variation. I believe AVE uses some weirdo NIC base which plays a much larger role in the flavor profile than we might think.

Cheers.
 

buffaloguy

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As an aside to this thread and only because it will help all our efforts:

All tobaccos continue to change throughout their shelf life. From first made to two years, they will change. All tobaccos must be steeped. Period. Some more so than others. It does not matter if its a forced steep via a crock pot, a UC, or left in a closet for a month. Just varied rates of change. I have tobaccos I like fresh, that I appreciate how they change over time. And I have tobaccos that need two weeks minimum before I touch them, and from there on I can appreciate how they mature. A crock or UC gets you there faster, in little time.

The key in both was the temperature and time used for both the crock pot and the UC. 150° constant temp for 4 hours. Both method produced consistant and very very similar results. Only a slight edge from the UC was noted. In the end, after numerous reviewers tried them, we all felt there was little difference of note between the two methods. Either method used will shave a little more than 2 weeks off wait time vs just putting it in a closet.

As I am the one who nailed down the process for steeping at or near 150°, I agree with Mike's findings and they were very scientifically done. The jury is out. Both UC and crock offers the same benefits. The key is constant temp and heat, as I have said for nearly 2 years now.

One hour in a UC is not enough to change a darn thing, much less if it isnt a heated UC.

Not arguing. How do you explain the continued color change after the UC? Did you test tobaccos? Individual tobacco or mixes?

I've ran quite a bit of liquid through my UC and without question it continues to evolve well after the UC cycle in both flavor and appearance. However, something that takes 2 weeks now only takes about 5-7 days depending on the ingredients.

If you put a fresh bottle of Casablanca(golden yellow) in a UC for an hour it doesn't come out an hour later glowing red orange and with the chocolate/cocoa nutty flavor popping out that only appears after a 2-3 week normal steep. It does however get there a lot sooner...like a week...

Sorry just my experience....
 
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AmandaD

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Now I remember....we both had a hard time with the 12mg Danny mixed. In the last 4 weeks or so I cut down all my juices to 3mg...speaking of NIC. Some people don't realize that the NIC is always part of the flavor profile. It also changes color quite a bit over time.

This is why IMHO BB and GJ will never see the light in a 0 mg variation. I believe AVE uses some weirdo NIC base which plays a much larger role in the flavor profile than we might think.

Cheers.

NO - it was 24mg, and I vape 6mg! I was wondering why I felt so queasy LOL

And, yes, nic is a huge part of the flavor profile and the 'steeping' process.
 

wallacecarey

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I got it, can't tell the difference. I have a real bottle here, everyone I let smell it says they can't tell the difference. The flavor is dead on. It may not be exactly what he uses but I can't tell the diff.

I made a 5 mill bottle.

24mg nic




100 vg
6 drops of black and mild flavor
2 drops of cotton candy
2 drops of coconut

I mixed this up. I like it better than Bobas.
 

Levitas

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^ I think I missed something, was someone claiming steeping doesn't do anything, because that's just silly.

Certain flavorings are guaranteed to change with steeping, regardless of the method, and other flavorings, not at all. It's more to do with their composition than the method used in my experience. Obviously though temperature threshholds or shelf life can be a factor at the extremes.

I might be one to argue that there is no change with steeping. But not in the way many may assume when I say that.

There has been no proof, other than color change, and taste (empirical evidence) that there is any actual change happening with 'steeping' (which is a silly term as is). I don't doubt that a flavor difference occurs, but I'm skeptical that a flavoring will completely change into another flavoring just by the act of sitting.

One example might be, I was discussing this with someone else via this site. They mentioned a vendor's blend that tasted like one flavor, but after a few weeks of 'steeping', the flavor completely changed into a another flavor. I find the idea that the original blend of flavorings completely changing into something different to be relatively false. Show me conclusive otherwise, and I'll gladly accept it as fact.

However, and I'm not the originator of said theory, but, I believe that the flavorings in a blend do not actually change, rather, with time, the flavor molecules are given a chance to effectively 'spread', so to speak, through out the base of the blend.

Meaning: If you mixed two flavorings together, let's say apple and banana for example, and upon tasting the blend fresh you only taste the apple. Well, after a few weeks of sitting, you start tasting the banana more than the apple, I don't believe that there was an actual change in the flavorings, rather, a change in the potency of said ingredients to make your taste cells, and your mind believe that change has occurred.

I believe this holds true with single, and multi-flavor blends. One could mix a plethora of flavorings together, and make it taste like it's something completely different than the original ingredients would taste like otherwise if made individually. If I were to mix a blueberry blend, it would taste different, albeit slightly, from day one, and on day 21. Again, I believe this is due to the notion that the flavoring is effectively spreading through out the base, and will taste differently on day 1 due to how potent the flavoring is when freshly mixed. With time, there is spreading of the flavoring, and if you're utilizing the flavoring while sitting (vaping a huge bottle of mixed juice, for example), there is evaporation to account for as well.



Anyhow, what does this have to do with Boba's? I believe that each bottle is freshly made. What does give that, 4-5 days of 'steeping' before it hits the door? I vape my Boba's fresh, and I can't really tell a difference in flavor, (aside of the natural diversity of flavor change Boba's offers, due the complexity of the blend), from the day I get it, and a month later (which is how long a 100ml bottle generally lasts me). It tastes the same from day 1 (4-5) from my door, until the last drop.

I'm sure many will disagree with my theory, and assessment. But no one has been able to show actual proof, aside of, again, empirical evidence. So, it's all just speculation at this point.
 
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