my first...mix?

[weezymagic]

hey all, so i made a mix (eventually it went poorly, in the end)
so below i will post how i did the mixture in depth and hopefully be able to solve a problem in the process.


first...
i decided to do a simple mix to start with. i wanted the basic pg/vg/nic/flavour so that i could get the hang of the actual process and to test the flavour by itself before trying a more complex mix of flavours. looking back, i should've gone with a strawberry flavour as opposed to a ripe strawberry but i made do since i ordered the later.


this process comes almost completely from my notes and not memory just in case i had questions or ended up with a bomb mix that i want to replicate in the future.




Materials...
multiple syringes and needles for measuring and transferring liquids.
1 ~14ml glass bottle with appropriate dropper cap (.5oz bottle to be exact)
wizard labs 24mg/ml nic solution 100% vg
wizard labs 100% pg
wizard labs 100% vg
wizard labs strawberry (ripe) flavour concentrate tfa (the flavour apprentice)
wizard labs marshmallow flavour concentrate la (lorann) (this was used later and not in my original thought process prior to mix)
isonic ultrasonic cleaner (gotta play with my new toy)
eJuiceMeUp juice calculator


test batch 1 makeup (strawberry)
nic 3.5ml
pg 3.78ml
vg 5.88ml
strawb .84ml
total 14ml
nic 6mg/ml
vg/pg 70/30


Process...
determine amount of each liquid needed prior to mixing using eJuiceMeUp.
use a syringe (seperate syringes for seperate liquids) and transfer the correct amount into a glass bottle.
shake the heck out of the glass bottle with cap on
test drip - slight strawberry flavour, harsh dry exhale
25 minutes in my usc with heat
dry off and shake the heck out of
cap off and smell - warm strawberry. an almost alcohol or rubbery smell imo
test drip - same as before but the flavour seemed warmer if thats possible with same harsh hit
do research
add 1 "drop" marshmellow
cap on and shake wildly
let sit for 24 hours.
test drip - same results as before
add .8ml strawberry to try to get some more flavour (maybe shouldve slowly stepped it up but first timer mistake)
same terrible hit with a more prounced flavour.
i think to myself, "maybe a drop or 2 more of marshmellow will smooth it out and get rid of that terrible hit.
go to add a drop or 2 of marshmellow, slip, added much more than a drop or 2.
shake,usc,let sit (now this is just for fun because the recipe is all messed up)
test drip - weird, heavy marshmellow with hints of strawberry but im still getting that bad hit.


conclusion - something went wrong and one or more of the liquids are funky because i know that the hit is all wrong.


ive double and triple checked my original recipe on ejuicemeup and with basic math because why put trust in a program i havent tested yet. (slight programming background, can you tell?) all calculations seem to be on point and all liquids were purchased within the past 2 weeks from wizard labs.


do some research and come across this blog. (side note, this guy has a lot of great info so check his blogs out, might learn you something new). test out my liquids separately and have decided that my 24mg/ml in vg seems to be the problem.
the liquid seems right. its almost completely odorless and clear in color. the liquid is a bit thick (it is 100% vg after all). so what do i do because i dont want to waste money and from what ive heard, wl has one of the highest reputations.

tl;dr be helpful and read the post or give me a free bump

 

[rowdyplace]

YOu are so right - read Danny's blogs. Then find Hoosier's blogs and read them, too. These two guys are full of great experienced information - and they are willing to share with us.

 

[weezymagic]

thanks for the free bump and ive read and reread the plethora of topics in those blogs and others that i stumbled upon

so what should i do? buy more nic from wl, get it from somewhere else and if so, where or contact wl and see if theyll do something for me and how do i explain it easily for them to understand

 

[rowdyplace]

I'm betting that your chemicals are OK. All of us have the unexpected happen too often.
Test your liquids. Make a base of 50/50 pg/vg and vape it. OK? add some nic. OK? add one flavor - just a little. Ok? and so on. I don't think you will find a "sour" chemical, just too much of a good thing in too small of a space...

My advice is to Read, read, and read some more of this DIY forum. All the vitamins are not laying on top of the manure pile. You need to read hours and hours of threads to find one gold nugget of information. This is not a waste of time, it is the best way to get an education in this exciting and rewarding new field of DIY juicing!

 

[weezymagic]

sorry for the confusion. let me clarify, i read one of the blogs about testing for harsh throat hit and followed it. tested pg solo, nothing bad. tested vg solo, nothing bad. mixed down my nic from 24mg to 6mg with the previously tested vg and the harsh hit happened. in conclusion, it seemed my nic is somehow bad? there is little to no odor and little to no color. the nic is fresh (within 2 weeks) from wizard labs.
the waste of time and money thing came from how do i go about fixing the problem. should i order from a dif company, roll the dice with wl again or contact wl and see if they can help.

or am i missing something completely?


almost forgot, thank you for reading the lengthy post and giving comments rowdyplace

 

[rowdyplace]

Sounds like "we" need Danny or Hoosier to chime in. I say "we" since you had already done what I was suggesting.

 

[weezymagic]

sounds like a plan. if no one else chimes in by tomorrow or the next day, im just going to email wl about it. thank you for the help though

 

[maz_lusus]

I'm sorry you have something funky going on. I just started DIYing liquid and have made 2 orders from Wizard Labs so far and everything has been great. Last time I mixed I had a 'harsh hit' happen and when I looked at my bottle it looked low, took it from bottle to beaker and realized I had missed 1 ml of VG or PG (I'm assuming that what it was anyway) added 1 ml of VG and the harsh hit was gone. Not implying that is what you did, you seem to have triple checked just sharing my mistake for others hehe.

 

[Art Mustel]

Have you checked your topper device with other liquids besides the ones you just made? I mean, your tank, carto, atomizer, whatever you are using. Your mix seems to be right, and I doubt WL would send you the wrong nic %, IMHO. Good luck!

 

[dannyv45]

Just wanted to let you know I saw your thread and have not fully digested it yet. I'm pressed for time at the moment but let me take a little time to think this one out and I'll come back later today with some suggestions.

 

[dannyv45]

OK Let me start by saying that you are a person that does there research so my hat is off to you.

It seems to me that you've narrowed the problem down quite a bit already. So lets look at what we know

1. Flavoring although may not be what you wanted is not the problem
2. VG vaped all on it's own is OK
3. PG vaped all on it's own is OK
4. NIC in VG solution (24mg) vaped all on it's own is harsh.
5. Nic mixed down to 6MG is still harsh but I would assume not as harsh as it was at 24mg correct?

So the problem does indeed point to the NIC solution. BUT is it because your hardware is dirty, or you are vaping it at a very high voltage?

Does it vape the same way if you lets say switch between an RBA, Clearo or carto? or is it just vaping that way when put in your dripper?

So at this point I would like you to tell me a little about your hardware as far as what type of power source your using (Batteries) What type of equipment your using (Clearos, cartos, RBA drippers) and at what voltages you've tried these devices at.

It could be bad NIC but WL is the best source and I use them. But mistakes do happen. I may ask you to send me samples of the NIC and what you've already mixed if we can't resolve this. I'm not going to attempt to try to mellow out or smooth out or de-harshen this with saline, EM, water, Diluted or adjusted pg/vg concentrations, adjusted flavor percentages etc.... because I don't think it's anything your doing wrong in your mixing I in fact think you have a pretty good handle on that already.

What I can say for sure is you did a great job of narrowing this down.

 

[weezymagic]

Have you checked your topper device with other liquids besides the ones you just made? I mean, your tank, carto, atomizer, whatever you are using. Your mix seems to be right, and I doubt WL would send you the wrong nic %, IMHO. Good luck!

yes, other juices (from fuzion vapor) doesnt give the same effect. i will retest the liquids on a different atty to make sure but i dont see how that could be an issue

 

[weezymagic]

OK Let me start by saying that you are a person that does there research so my hat is off to you.

It seems to me that you've narrowed the problem down quite a bit already. So lets look at what we know

1. Flavoring although may not be what you wanted is not the problem
2. VG vaped all on it's own is OK
3. PG vaped all on it's own is OK
4. NIC in VG solution (24mg) vaped all on it's own is harsh.
5. Nic mixed down to 6MG is still harsh but I would assume not as harsh as it was at 24mg correct?

So the problem does indeed point to the NIC solution. BUT is it because your hardware is dirty, or you are vaping it at a very high voltage?

Does it vape the same way if you lets say switch between an RBA, Clearo or carto? or is it just vaping that way when put in your dripper?

So at this point I would like you to tell me a little about your hardware as far as what type of power source your using (Batteries) What type of equipment your using (Clearos, cartos, RBA drippers) and at what voltages you've tried these devices at.

It could be bad NIC but WL is the best source and I use them. But mistakes do happen. I may ask you to send me samples of the NIC and what you've already mixed if we can't resolve this. I'm not going to attempt to try to mellow out or smooth out or de-harshen this with saline, EM, water, Diluted or adjusted pg/vg concentrations, adjusted flavor percentages etc.... because I don't think it's anything your doing wrong in your mixing I in fact think you have a pretty good handle on that already.

What I can say for sure is you did a great job of narrowing this down.

well thank you for the help.

im using an igo-w4 and nemesis clone mod with sony vtc4 batteries. i tested the liquids at .6ohm (dual), .8ohm (single) and 1.0ohm (single) all on the same atty. i can retest this on another igow4 (just got it a few weeks ago) with similar coil builds.
i do not have any other forms of vaping currently (no cartos or rbas) but other than testing with different variables, shouldnt using a dripper be fine since all my other liquids (bought from fuzion, local b&m, etc) work well on my dripper?

sounds weird but i can think of one thing i havent played around with yet. i havent done it yet so i may be off base but would diluting the nic with distilled water help any? if so, how should i test it? dilute 24mg to 6mg and drip or mix distilled water and vg to dilute the nic down?

 

[dannyv45]

well thank you for the help.

im using an igo-w4 and nemesis clone mod with sony vtc4 batteries. i tested the liquids at .6ohm (dual), .8ohm (single) and 1.0ohm (single) all on the same atty. i can retest this on another igow4 (just got it a few weeks ago) with similar coil builds.
i do not have any other forms of vaping currently (no cartos or rbas) but other than testing with different variables, shouldnt using a dripper be fine since all my other liquids (bought from fuzion, local b&m, etc) work well on my dripper?

sounds weird but i can think of one thing i havent played around with yet. i havent done it yet so i may be off base but would diluting the nic with distilled water help any? if so, how should i test it? dilute 24mg to 6mg and drip or mix distilled water and vg to dilute the nic down?

I use saline because any NIC gives me throat irratation after a long period of vaping and it helps but if you are noticing it being overly harsh right off the bat that is generally an issue. You also have to discern if your not mistaking harshness for throat hit. But in any case even before you start adding flavoring you need to get your base vaping right. This is a very gray area for now because not having sampled your nic and knowing the quality of what I get from WL, I don't know if your just overly sensitive to the NIC or if it's really bad NIC. So If you've ruled out your hardware as being an issue then you can investigate saline and if your doing 70/30/6MG start with 4% saline added to your base (Don't add it to the NIC solution directly add it to the already mixed down base) and don't use flavoring and see if that helps. For now you need to get the base right before you start mixing flavors.

In very rare cases the concentration of NIC can also be off. But seeing the NIC comes from WL it's even more doubtful but if you are in doubt get yourself a test kit from WL and test it.

 

[we2rcool]

Something that hasn't been mentioned...

Occasionally VG nic develops "pockets" of nic where the VG and nic have slightly separated. Those of us using VGnic should always warm it and shake it thoroughly before using it...because a 'random pull' can be a higher or lower nic concentration than what the entire bottle averages out to being.

So, if the VGnic wasn't warmed & thorougly shaken before use...then just gently warm your VGnic, shake it like crazy, and mix up small sample of 6mg - vape it, and see if it's any different.

 

[Hoosier]

To add to danny's help.

Some nic just has a different TH than others. My favorite nic is known for having no taste, but being very strong on TH, and I like it that way. (Not WL)

So, you might be able to get by with lowering your nic. Being at 6mg/ml already, dropping it down to 4mg/ml just might do the trick?

 

[weezymagic]

All very good advice. here is my attack plan. (i may be developing a cold so im going to wait a few days to make sure my testing is accurate...

1. retest my pg, then vg, then nic diluted to 6mg in only vg with my other dripper set to .6, .8 and 1ohm.
1b. test nic at 3mg to see if it is the same results.
2. find and buy saline and add that (4%) to my mix at 70/30 6mg without flavourings (can i buy it at walmart or walgreens or is it more online is better kind of thing? i dont have experience with it so i want to get the right stuff.).
3. have my buddy do steps 1 and 2 to make sure its not just me.
4. possibly send some nic and a mixture to another diy member to see if they concur with my results.
5. contact wl about a test kit and maybe replacement or another bottle of nic.
6. start mixing with a good base?

one thing i didnt see covered (not sure if it would do anything) could distilled water play a part in smoothing the nic like saline might? i ask because ive see some calculators have this as an option. maybe just to thin high vg mixes.


again, thank you all for the help, hopefully i can get mixing sooner or later