My wife asked her work and recieved this reply

[sam12six]

It's just my opinion, but my experience has been that company policy setters absolutely hate to reverse a decision based on employee input - it makes them feel like you were right and they were wrong.

For effectiveness, your best bet (again IMO) would be contacting a doctor in whatever HMO, PPO, POO-POO, etc., the company uses to try and get some written acknowledgment that PVs are a good thing; then take that to whomever you're dealing with.

Every situation is different. I've just found that when asking something of corporate decisionmakers, if they've said "no", your saying "but" just makes them dig in and defend their decision. Getting the approval of a company-approved health professional lets them feel like heroes for changing the policy to benefit the health of the employees.

 

[KissOfDeath]

A sound idea, i will pass it on.

 

[jmpublius]

I guess what I've been trying to say is that PVs are changing what "smoking" means. We can call it anything we want, but those of us who are honest with ourselves will accept the fact that we're still smoking, just smoking something besides the cigarettes that we once smoked. I blame a lot of this attitude on the marketing of PVs as a "smoke anywhere" method of skirting smoking laws. They had the opportunity to market an entirely new thing to save smokers' lives (and I wholeheartedly believe it's doing that for many of us), what they did instead though, was market a way to smoke where people don't want you to do so.

Maybe I'm unique in my view of vaping, but I long ago decided I'd be a smoker for life and that it would be the primary cause of my death. When I discovered vaping, I felt like I had a chance to continue an activity that relaxes and focuses me without the whole "side order of death". I couldn't care less where it's allowed. I long ago accepted that the activity was verboten in some places and don't see a reason to try and crusade to have my personal choice of smoking be exempted from other smoking laws. If I were a crusader, I'd be trying to build support to overturn the draconian smoking laws that supercede the rights of a privately owned business to decide whether or not smoking is allowed on its premises.

I don't think you're unique in this view. My personal opinion is that it's a little silly to be jumping up and down over restrictions on where you can vape. Some people in this forum have gone so far as to suggest that there's a constitutional right to vape where you want. Really???

It's funny you should mention those commercials, because one came on the other night and I told my wife that if anything was going to cause e-cigs to be banned, it's gonna be the people who insist they're allowed to do it in malls, restaurants, etc.

And I should add----the salespeople at the mall kiosks who are directly marketing to kids. Every time I go by one of these, there's a group of 3-4 teenagers, and the salesperson is showing them how to use it.

But, fighting efforts to ban the products altogether is something that I think is worth the time.

 

[KnifeHex]

I guess that to a point they are correct (morale).
Even though it is not smoke, it does look like we're smoking.

It's just not politically correct yet and probably never will be.

 

[cookiebun]

The place I worked at recently instituted what really amounts as a fine to people that smoke. If you smoked, you got $25 taken off your pay packet every second week, starting January 1st this year. They said it had to do with the new health insurance company they were dealing with. One feature of the new system was that if you saw someone who said they would quit, and were still smoking, you could dob them in to management and get your own 25$ returned for the month.

There was quite an uproar over that among the smokers, and about half the staff pledged to quit. Out of 15 there were no successful attempts in our office.
One of the people next door went with an e-cig. She still got pinged, because another staff member saw her outside with the thing, and assumed it was a cigarette. She was reported, and drug tested and as she was using juice with nicotine she flunked the test. $150 fine for that.

The non smokers were pretty smug there for a while. Less so now, that they instituted fines for being over your ideal BMI, and a fine as well for 'alcohol use' That's off duty alcohol use. $25 a pop. So if you smoke, are overweight, and have the occasional glass of wine, and given what they pay at that place, it is hardly worth going in on Monday.

One of the reasons I left that madhouse. The company has a lot of problems retaining staff ..now I wonder why that would be?!

Holy crap!
I pay $40 extra a pay period on my health insurance for tobacco use and I thought that was bad.
That's really over the top!

 

[Moonflame]

"The fact is, there are no long term studies on the effect of inhaling PG, VG, and various flavorings all day (because people haven't been doing it for very long in the big scheme of things). Since we don't know the long term effects of either primary or secondary regular exposure to the various mixes of chemicals in ejuice, telling someone there is no danger is a lie. With that in mind, isn't it more responsible for a company to err on the side of caution where the health of their employees and customers is concerned?


It is just as ignorant to claim falsely that you know something is safe as it is for someone to claim falsely that they know it is dangerous."

There are, in fact, 70 years worth of research on inhaling PG in much higher amounts than we use in a PV. Tests done on people and on animals. Do a google search on Propylene Glycol inhalation studies and the results are readily available. As for the Nicotine, even the medical establishment says that it's no worse for you than caffeine. And on to flavorings, candy makers have been inhaling those flavorings for many years when they stand in the steam put off by boiling candy. I have yet to hear of anyone with "Candy Lung".

 

[sam12six]

There are, in fact, 70 years worth of research on inhaling PG in much higher amounts than we use in a PV. Tests done on people and on animals. Do a google search on Propylene Glycol inhalation studies and the results are readily available. As for the Nicotine, even the medical establishment says that it's no worse for you than caffeine. And on to flavorings, candy makers have been inhaling those flavorings for many years when they stand in the steam put off by boiling candy. I have yet to hear of anyone with "Candy Lung".

I agree with you. The problem is that the mixture of a specific juice formula would need studies of long term, exclusive use to establish a blanket declaration that it's completely safe. This would be required of every juice.

Now, this only applies in a situation where people are trying to claim they are completely safe (as opposed to ALMOST CERTAINLY safe) as a justification for PV use to be separated from cigarette smoking for health reasons. In other words, even if it happened (which it won't), it would take a couple of decades at least.

This applies when talking about PVs as a consumer product. Should someone jump through the required hoops to have PVs become a recognized smoking cessation product, the "absolutely safe" argument could be avoided, but it won't happen either because there are already nicotine inhalers that no one can mistake for smoking.

Absolutely fight efforts to ban ejuice.
Absolutely fight to overturn laws that prevent people from choosing to allow smoking in their own homes or places of business.

Fighting to have something that at a glance appears to be smoking excluded from smoking laws is an unwinnable (and therefore pointless) fight.

Idealism is awesome, but it's got to be tempered with pragmatism. All things considered, smokers are a minority. Vapers are a tiny, tiny portion of society that has broken off from that minority, making it a "micro minority". In realistic terms, the best result that can happen is to convince the majority of people that vaping is a good thing that should continue to exist as an alternative to smoking. Trying to force an ambivalent world to embrace it and allow it in places where smoking is not permitted (whether you consider this educating people or exercising your rights) is counterproductive because most will just see it as a new breed of smoker trying to get around bans.

Obviously, this is all my opinion and how I see the situation, but I don't believe anyone besides he extremist anti-smoking nazis are actually out to ban them. The threats of bans are just softening up vapers for the day when ejuice is taxed the same way tobacco is. The government just has too damned much tax revenue to lose for every person who switches away from cigarettes not to want to do something about it. As a small minority, our priority should be ensuring that what the government does is accepts (and unfortunately, taxes) nicotine liquid instead of taking the easy way out and declaring a blanket ban. Developing the rep as "those smokers who want special treatment" will just make enemies of people who could have been allies in the fight for acceptance of something that can save lives.

 

[cbabbman]

My company has strict rules on all kinds of things, not just smoking. They chose to include e-cigs on the basis that they look like regular cigs and don't need to be fighting the union and/or individuals on this. And quite honestly, I don't blame them.

Their rules also include no eating or drinking on the factory floor, no jewelry, etc... we all have to eat and drink, right? Should we be fighting them on that also? No. At least they haven't implemented a policy that makes it impossible to smoke anything at all during the work day like making people go off of company property, as it is at some places I've worked (24 years as a Systems Integrator, contracted into all kinds of different places).

They do not prevent anyone from going out to the '.... hut' (love that term) and they provide ample breaks for people to eat and drink and smoke. That's just the way it is and there is nothing wrong with it.

I vape at my desk all the time (discretely) and go outside very rarely these days. I'm ok with this as it allows me to get more work done whereas before with analogs, I was taking a few mins every hour to go out and was constantly having to start my train of thought over when I came back in. Not to mention that my trips outside were plainly and obviously visible to everyone.

I understand that people do not want to be told what to do and when they can do it and where they can do it, but it doesn't apply just to smoking.

I didn't switch to vaping to make a statement or buck the system. I did it for my own health and I do not think that bucking the system at the infancy of e-cigs is going to do anything but allow the mis-perception of them to continue and build.

I don't like being told that I cannot drink while I drive. But I don't put my coke in a beer bottle and then expect people to just ignore it on the road. Just as I know I can say what I please but don't yell fire in a crowded theater. It's all about judgement.

Just my opinion.

 

[cbabbman]

Holy crap!
I pay $40 extra a pay period on my health insurance for tobacco use and I thought that was bad.
That's really over the top!

This is ONE THING that I have a serious problem with. The premise for a 'tobacco user' seems to be the chemical resultant of the breakdown of nicotine in the blood which will not differentiate between smokers and vapers... We are still one in the same as long as all the tests still come back positive.

 

[jmpublius]

I Obviously, this is all my opinion and how I see the situation, but I don't believe anyone besides he extremist anti-smoking nazis are actually out to ban them. The threats of bans are just softening up vapers for the day when ejuice is taxed the same way tobacco is. The government just has too damned much tax revenue to lose for every person who switches away from cigarettes not to want to do something about it. As a small minority, our priority should be ensuring that what the government does is accepts (and unfortunately, taxes) nicotine liquid instead of taking the easy way out and declaring a blanket ban. Developing the rep as "those smokers who want special treatment" will just make enemies of people who could have been allies in the fight for acceptance of something that can save lives.

We should be fairly vigilant in fighting to keep any and all taxes reasonable. Excise taxes are nothing new, but the extremity of taxes on cigarettes are largely due to the health issues associated with the product. In time, I believe it will be proven by a preponderence of evidence and testing that e-cigs are far safer than analogs, so excessive taxing should be avoided by that virtue alone.

Good post BTW.

 

[ckc]

Ask your mrs to inform her company that Electronic cigarettes are not tobacco and are not included in the No Smoking Laws.The UK Gov are in the process of 'fact finding' shall we say.

http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/13018/53971/53971.pdf

Ask them nicely if they will review it ?

 

[Pur3Rush]

Start rant:

Ok first of all, you can't seriously think it's going to work out in your favor by "asking permission" from your company. If you were the CEO I could understand. HR will always cover the company's a$%, and all it takes is for 1 person to complain and that's it. So to prevent that, you're denied.

I'd personally like to beat the piss out of people who still insist we are smoking. But I digress:

#1. Don't ever refer to your "device" as a e-cigarette, or vaporizer. The answer is as follows:
Situation: Boss, coworker see's you blow out some "smoke", comes over to your desk/office/cubicle to ask what it is or what you are doing.

Reply: This is my inhaler that I use to restore my lung functionality since I quit smoking. I'm trying to prevent COPD from developing.

It's a medicalish related answer. I don't have to prove crap, and nobody will realistically question you. Either they don't smoke, or smoke and have never seen/heard of an e-cig. It's an HR violation to harass or even question in detail anything relating to medical/health conditions. If I had diabetes, and there way a syringe or insulin bottle on my desk, nobody would ask anything. If they did, "it's for diabetes" is sufficient. I could go on and on. But I basically stealth vape and my immediate boss and dept manager have walked in just as I'm exhaling. Suprisingly they weren't alarmed, just curious. Once I gave that answer, all I got was a shrug, then back to work talk. Don't be a wuss, don't ask for permission, just do it. I would rather someone find out what it is (my answer given isn't remotely false) then institute an HR policy vs. asking and being denied.

Just don't blatently blow clouds of vapor everywhere. I use an ego-T and keep it right at the top of my keyboard in plain sight. People walk by the office all the time and see me with it in my mouth.

I guess I'm semi confrontational/egregious, but I'm not asking nobody's permission to save my damn life. I wish somebody would say something!

So, I'm basically saying grow a pair, and stand your ground. Given the great answer provided, your vaping will basically be accepted/ignored as long as you're stealth vaping.

end rant:

PS. If you choose to use this answer report back what your experience was and pass it on. Dont' be afraid to save your life! Plus, I'm not standing in the rain/cold/next to smokers ever again.

Get er done!

 

[Pur3Rush]

If I walked around the store where I worked with a realistic rubber phallus hanging out of my zipper, would I have the right to be upset that people were mistaking me for a flasher? Would I have the right to be upset that management told me not to do it because they don't want to deal with complaints and the cops being called on me?
.

This is the exact reason why your pv can't be a white cigarette looking device. An ego is about as low as you can go with respect to using my answer above. It looks kind of like a marker. My answer also wont work if you are chain vaping or non stealth vaping. What you are doing has to look realistic as it relates to your given answer. Nobody hits an asthma inhaler 10 times in 3 minutes, so yeah if you need that kind of fix, hit the bathroom or your car.

 

[Zal42]

The fact is, there are no long term studies on the effect of inhaling PG, VG, and various flavorings all day (because people haven't been doing it for very long in the big scheme of things).

That's not exactly true. There have been a large number of studies about inhaling pg, as people in certain occupations have been doing that for about 100 years. There have been a smaller, but significant number of similar studies on vg, for the same reason. The only part of juice that hasn't been well studied is the flavorings -- but there have been a few recent ones that seem very encouraging.

There have been studies on inhaling VG and PG directly off an atomizing element all day, every day for well over 40 years?

Yes, there have! The atomizers involved were usually "industrial" ones, such as used in fog machines, but the mechanism of vapor production is identical.

 

[MissVapor]

Lets not forget the main purpose the ecig is fulfilling for us all. It was to use it instead of smoking cigarettes, and is not used just to be able to vape in places we cannot smoke. Sure we can get away with it if you keep it on the down low, but openly using PVs in public where smoking is not permitted is jut not possible yet (in most places) I myself would not have asked my employer. I did ask my coworker, and she does not mind at all, but would never think to ask the company, which has a non smoking policy. Lets all remember the benefits of ecigs, and even a minor inconvenience is far better than what we used to be doing to our bodies with analogs.

I agree and if I were a non-smoker I would not want to be in the same room with people vaping. IMO that is rude and unfair to others.

 

[GoneWiththeWind]

Start rant:

Ok first of all, you can't seriously think it's going to work out in your favor by "asking permission" from your company. If you were the CEO I could understand. HR will always cover the company's a$%, and all it takes is for 1 person to complain and that's it. So to prevent that, you're denied.

I'd personally like to beat the piss out of people who still insist we are smoking. But I digress:

#1. Don't ever refer to your "device" as a e-cigarette, or vaporizer. The answer is as follows:
Situation: Boss, coworker see's you blow out some "smoke", comes over to your desk/office/cubicle to ask what it is or what you are doing.

Reply: This is my inhaler that I use to restore my lung functionality since I quit smoking. I'm trying to prevent COPD from developing.

!

Discretion rules! When in doubt-I stealth vape. I use a higher nic., hold it in for a while (so that the vapor dissipates), and let it out super quick! Virtually invisible.

If a discrete, non glowing pv (ego,wood mods, mini reo)is used-very few will notice. It's always good to have a well rehearsed relaxed explanation in mind for those who question 'now I know i'm not seeing things, but did i just see smoke come out of your mouth?'

 

[KissOfDeath]

On a side note, i know a security guard at my local Wallmart, we walk our dogs together in the morning so i asked him and showed him my Titan. As far as he was concerned, neither himself or any of his colleagues would stop me using it as i perused the food isles. Even upon a challenge i will still be allowed as the appropriate explanation will suffice. On a side note he did say not to get exasperated or confrontational " As you will very quickly find yourself flat on your back and out the door smartish"

 

[pearlyvictoria]

You know, as vapors we have this exclusive and totally cool club going. The last thing I want is for the rest of the world to get all involved to corrupt what we have going. Seriously trying to quit smoking and seriously enjoy vaping, welcome all! But you just know, as with everything else, someone, somewhere will figure out how to exploit the e-cig and make it horrible for the rest of us. I can't really say how they would do that but just know it can happen.

What brought me to this point of thought was all the nonsense from employers about vaping/smoking in the workplace. Frankly, I think e-cigs should be used just like analogues, if it is against the rules to smoke at times and places other than those designated, then do not do it. But that's just me. When I got a new job in the front office and was the first contact between the public and the CEO, I found out lingering smell of smoke was so noticeable. So my last analogue was smoked before I brushed my teeth and took a shower each morning. (too much info, lol?). I did not smoke on breaks or at lunch and my next smoke was at 5 o'clock on the way home. Never even wanted one before then. That's when I realized I could quit!

Trying to explain to some people that vapors aren't smoke will be a challenge, especially since the nicotine can get you fired as noted in an earlier post. Then we have the analysis about what exactly make analogues so bad and e-cigs so much better? Of course we know about the absence of tar, smoke and chemicals of analogues but will they be willing to understand that?

I don't stealth and do not generally use my 808 in public. If I didn't smoke in or at certain venues, I don't vape there. No point in causing alarm/negative reactions. Please believe me, if I wanted to vape or really needed a hit, no amount of protest would stop me. But as I said, if I didn't light up in certain places, I don't vape there either. JMTCW …

 

[cbabbman]

I agree and if I were a non-smoker I would not want to be in the same room with people vaping. IMO that is rude and unfair to others.

I never wanted to smoke where there were non-smokers... it was my choice to smoke, not theirs... so I have never been comfortable in recent years smoking around them. Vaping is no different for me.. just my own personal style, I guess..

I like to vape alone or with others who are vaping...

 

[MakeMineAMenthol]

I vape all the time at home, in my car, etc. When I worked, I would bend down below my desk occasionally and take a few hits, while fiddling with my paper bin or printer. For longer, extended sessions, I found a bathroom break perfect - even if I didn't actually need to physically use the facilities, I had some private time behind a door for vaping.

It's really not that big of a deal. In bars and restaurants, theaters and concert halls, I vape discreetly, exhaling down toward the floor or into my blouse. No one has EVER said a word to me or given a second look.

I still won't do it at all around my husband's family, but that's about my only self-imposed restriction.

I'm amazed at all the kerfuffle here!