Nasty anti-e cig editorial in LA Times

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JebGipson

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My comment:

I agree these device need regulation, but you seem to be touting biast statements that have been unconfirmed. Such as the "many" e-cigarettes contain the chemical diethlyne glycol. In the ONE study that found TRACE levels (not major but TRACE levels) of diethlyne glycol it was found in 1 brand out of the brands tested. And how dangerous is diethlyne glycol? does anyone know for sure? It is a component, and not undiluted antifreeze, and furthermore very hazardous chemicals can be used for some and in some cases lifesaving applications. Most notably for example nitroglycerin, a powerful and unstable explosive material (not just a component mind you but a standalone explosive material) incredibly dangerous if not handled properly. What is it also used for? Heart medications. Now on the subject of the use of this device for smoking cessation, the intent of the device and what SOME consumers use it for are two entirely different matters. Water pipes, glass roses and digital jewelry scales are not always used for there intended purpose, and neither is the electronic cigarette. It is an alternative device for smokers, who do not wish to end their habit but find a different way to consume nicotine. And finally the "flavoring" debacle. Since when did adults not enjoy things that taste good? Are sweet liqueur's marketed toward "teenagers"? Please do more research in the future.
 

dperino

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not much of an article in usa today. just keeps the flames stoked, so to speak. many of the comments are really crazy :)

Did any of you ever stop and think that these "editorials" may be written for the express purpose of trolling ECF and watch everyones reactions? Anybody can come up a similar poorly written anti-ecig "editorial" like this to stir the hornets nest here.

jim, so then what? i would think venting here would be a bit more appropriate. yes, some of the things said are off the charts but this doesn't reflect the opinions of all. i understand what's at stake but also acknowledge a person's right to expression. let them troll, they're going to regardless.
 
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BigJimW

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If they are trolling us then I feel we should continue to state our points, in an adult manner. If we take the juvenile route and "troll" back instead of making points/debate in a mature manner we look even worse. It may be more difficult, but sometimes it's better to take the high road.

Exactly. We can use these articles and editorials to our advantage if we do this.
 

TWISTED VICTOR

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Let's also not forget that if the press can get a person elected as President it has the power to sway govt. agencies. To keep from ultimately paying $5-6 per ml., as well as remaining the social scourges we became as smokers, good press is our best weapon. More often then not the press is very biased on important issues, but there are some who only want the facts. 20, no, only a couple years ago if I knew I was in the right I'd drive my point home with a club if I had to. My basic nature is still there, but I'm a little wiser, now, I think. What seems best is to be friendly with my enemies, soften them enough to hear me out and understand all the facts and make them my allies. If all else fails I've always got a firm grip on the club
 
Switch on the TV while I have dinner, and this: Dispatches - What's in Your Breakfast? - Channel 4

The Cheerios thing, only more ...

Loads of bs fake nutrition advice from 'experts'. The point is not that big breakfast is good or bad, but why on earth do so many fall for this government control of our lives!

People imagine that regulation for e-cigs is going to be some benign checking of ingredients and such. This is already covered by laws governing trading standards. In truth any special regulation will be a nightmare that will probably render vaping expensive and inneffective. Be careful what you wish for ...

So one or two companies broke the stupid law about making health claims - what is in fact the whole raison d'etre. I don't condone that, but let's face it, it is absurd. So over the last years has unregulation been such a bad thing? Or has it actually been the best of times? Juices and devices have been getting better and better. Those eager for 'regulation' - which will not be for the consumers benefit (that's a very naive view) - can rue the day when reminiscing about the good old days before that comes to pass ...
 
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quetzacoatl

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1. It's not an article. Articles should be fair and balanced. It's an editorial. Editorials advance a position and support it. Editorials are opinion.

2. No matter whether these are ultimately ruled drugs/drug delivery devices or tobacco products, the FDA will regulate them. Either way, the FDA has final authority. It's just that the drug route is more involved at the moment. But either route could be a dead end, thanks to the recent legislation from Congress and signed into law. Any new product like these has massive, almost insurmountable, hurdles to get over.

3. These do need regulation. The out-of-control sale of products containing nicotine is not a supportable position. Surely no one can advocate that.

4. Editorial writers can base parts of an opinion on incorrect facts. That's the case here with the reference to diethylene glycol in many e-cigs. But rest assured that those advocating this opinion are not mindless idiots, pawns for Big Tobacco or Big Pharma, or dolts who write without thinking. This reflects an opinion many will hold and is the agreed-upon conclusion of an editorial board of highly intelligent people. We can hope that an organization like CASAA becomes a clearinghouse for facts on which future editorials are based, so incorrect allegations aren't printed or spoken as truth.

#1: Does it matter that it's an "editorial" and not an "article"? It sounds like you're just being nitpicky for the sake of being nitpicky; the point of it is negative and everyone understands that.

#2: The FDA has authority by brute force alone; not because they have any Constitutional jurisdiction or even any right to exist. Their ability to ban certain products from the public is, quite frankly, illegal.

#3: Wrong. I can and do advocate just that, because it's not the federal government's job to do anything about it. According to the Constitution, the federal government exists for a small number of reasons and regulating anything of that nature is not in the rulebook. We don't need the government to babysit us. If a company makes a bad product, let the people sue them and put them out of business; that's the way it's supposed to work. But now, since we have the Almighty FDA to give "approval", companies who are sued can say "well, we had FDA approval, nyah nyah nyah" and can use that as part of their defense in court. The FDA has also been known to PROTECT manufacturers who make bad products and even change their rules to accomodate them so they don't get in too much trouble with the public.

Us needing the federal government to oversee what we eat and drink to the extent of banning certain products from being used by consenting adults is a bunch of crap. The FDA doesn't do its job, it's corrupted, and we simply do not need it. I'm not in favor of government sanctioned bodies that make regulations that masquerade as laws, as the FDA, TSA, DHS, etc. tend to do without any input from the public whatsoever. They're run by unelected officials that have next to no fear of getting fired and absolutely no fear of getting voted out of office.

So, I fail to see how the government regulating products that contain nicotine benefits anyone, be it the public or anyone here on this forum.

Not only that, but the pharmaceutical companies have complete and utter immunity when it comes to the swine flu vaccine if the federal government deems it to be so; if it messes you up, tough ****, thanks to the 2006 PREP Act in Congress. Once the PREP Act is invoked by the Secretary of the DHHS, if you take the swine flu vaccine and it makes you end up like this girl:

YouTube - Beautiful Cheerleader Develops Dystonia After Receiving Vaccine

... you're just out of luck. Sorry, but that's just a little TOO much power for my taste and I'll choose death by swine flu before risking ending up like that because the vaccine is what nanny government tells me is good for me (especially when Obama's daughters are basically forbidden vaccination).

Having the federal government involved in these things does nothing but give manufacturers excuses to have bad products on the market, simply because they paid to have their products "approved" and it's not in our best interests to allow them to be directly involved in our food or our health care.

#4: Any editorial writer found to be intentionally lying about the facts in an editorial should be fired. Simple as that. Anything else is propaganda intended to mislead and deceive the public.

This reflects an opinion many will hold and is the agreed-upon conclusion of an editorial board of highly intelligent people.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, what??? An editorial board of highly intelligent people..?? This editorial is what passes for "highly intelligent"??? This editorial was not an opinion piece; it was an agenda piece made to sound like an opinion piece because even though the one(s) who wrote it may not like e-cigarettes, I guarantee it's for reasons completely un-related to the contents of the editorial. The major newspapers of the United States are owned by a small group of people with a similar mindset and it's their agenda that's being pushed here, not any one person's.
 
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Vocalek

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I, too, saw the comments go from a large number to zero. I relinked back to the article, and now when I click on "All Comments" I do see the one I left at 4 pm:

The LA Times "wants sales of the devices halted" because "the devices are regularly used by smokers trying to quit tobacco." Excuse me? Why in the world does the LA Times want people who have chosen e-cigarettes to go back to smoking deadly "cancer sticks" instead? Why does it want to make sure that the 45 million Americans who still smoke are denied access to this alternative? Why does the LA Times prefer they inhale the lung-clogging tar, heart stopping carbon monoxide, and thousands of carcinogens delivered by tobacco smoke?
 

Vocalek

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Just saw this comment. He measures nicotine strength in milliliters?

I smoked for 30 years and was able to quit this pass summer after using an E-cig. I got the 'refillable' nicotine 'juice' and think I put way too much and got really sick on the nicotine. Never used again or smoked. Althought there isn't an hour that goes by that I don't think about smoking. Personally, I think they should be regulated. The juice I was using was 30ml of nicotine and comes as high as 50ml. This could be lethal to someone. i ordered through totally wicked .com and they were out of England. Not China.

tusaz (10/26/2009, 10:12 AM )
 

PlanetScribbles

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Just saw this comment. He measures nicotine strength in milliliters?

I smoked for 30 years and was able to quit this pass summer after using an E-cig. I got the 'refillable' nicotine 'juice' and think I put way too much and got really sick on the nicotine. Never used again or smoked. Althought there isn't an hour that goes by that I don't think about smoking. Personally, I think they should be regulated. The juice I was using was 30ml of nicotine and comes as high as 50ml. This could be lethal to someone. i ordered through totally wicked .com and they were out of England. Not China.

tusaz (10/26/2009, 10:12 AM )

Jesus wept :(
Is this what we are fighting against? At least the poster differentiated between Chinese product and UK product, which must mean that he/she sees regulated product as being safer than unregulated. But even so ... mg v ml is a very, very important distinction to make and posts like this just confuse people who want to see the 'good' in a good product.
 

NickWgnr

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Oct 20, 2009
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Someone I work with today got on my back about my ecig... He was sucking down an analog dong the old "lets see how many I can suck down before my 15min break is over". He commented saying, "you should switch back, those things have anti-freeze in em'"... I argued with him about that and finally just said "so what, that only means that your getting 3999+ more chemical than I am so shove it". Needless to say he didn't say anything back and we didn't really talk for the rest of the day, haha...




Wagner :shock:
 

Lashes

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Just saw this comment. He measures nicotine strength in milliliters?

I smoked for 30 years and was able to quit this pass summer after using an E-cig. I got the 'refillable' nicotine 'juice' and think I put way too much and got really sick on the nicotine. Never used again or smoked. Althought there isn't an hour that goes by that I don't think about smoking. Personally, I think they should be regulated. The juice I was using was 30ml of nicotine and comes as high as 50ml. This could be lethal to someone. i ordered through totally wicked .com and they were out of England. Not China.

tusaz (10/26/2009, 10:12 AM )


Just like I feel that not everyone should be allowed to reproduce, I feel that not everyone should be allowed on the internet. ****ing stupid mother ****ers.
 

TheScrye

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There is a long post up there by coatl that makes me all kinds of gitty. He's right, I totally agree. The FDA is a joke, and shouldn't be allowed to regulate a thing. Mainly because, their not good at it. Look at all the FDA approved drugs that had to eventually get recalled due to severe problems, and all the great medications that have been passed through the system which actually caused death. It's gross how bad they are at their "job", a "job" they shouldn't even be allowed to have in this country.

Then again, this isn't the America we were taught in schools any more. That's pretty damn obvious, and not really worth any more discussion.

As for the idiot who tried to vape 30 to 50ml... really 50? .......mit. Seriously? These are the people that make the manufacturers of chainsaws have to put warnings on the product saying "do not hold wrong end of chainsaw", or "do not use for drying pets" on a microwave.

These are the people our nanny government uses as poster boys and girls to promote their laws and regulations. People need protecting, cause there are ......s like Mr.50ml.
 
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